Another finals another load of idiots

[Sutekh]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

Hello and welcome to Europe! Never happen in the UK (because we never get awarded tournament finals)

[stealthpapes]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

UEFA also rolling out the ultra tough suspended disqualification

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36528403

[St Pauli]

massive hissy fits

For some reason you're not quite so sympathetic to these fans who've been subjected to attacks purely based on some shite singing and the country of their birth.

Nope, there's been plenty of opportunities to do so, (French Strikes, calls for an enquiry into the policing of Orgreave following the Hillsborough verdict) but I haven't because it would meet with exactly the reaction from RL et al as you're now accusing me of.

Have you been away with England to a major European football tournament? If, like me and GreatWesternLine, you have, you'll know what kinds of ASBO behaviour goes on but doesn't make it into the papers or TV news. If not, you're just arguing from a point of ignorance.

Were you in Marseille SP?...... if not aren't you doing the exact thing you are accusing other of?

Yes to a certain extent, but less so than those who never have, in that I've seen England in Europe recently, and see no reason to believe they've really changed, particularly given the reports of England fans stealing flags on Thursday.

[Silver Fox]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

UEFA also rolling out the ultra tough suspended disqualification

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36528403

I think they've realised the can of worms they'd opened by threatening to kick out both teams because of what has happened in the old port etc as opposed to the stadium, which is their domain. It will be interesting to see if they've got the balls to follow through if Russia cause trouble in the stadium tomorrow. My guess would be they won't

[Maneki Neko]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

UEFA also rolling out the ultra tough suspended disqualification

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36528403

after ending their previous one early just before this tournament

Whats the oxf*rd point.its literally no sanction at all

[St Pauli]

Have you been away with England to a major European football tournament? If, like me and GreatWesternLine, you have, you'll know what kinds of ASBO behaviour goes on but doesn't make it into the papers or TV news. If not, you're just arguing from a point of ignorance.

I have been away with England yes, and I've not suggested there isn't anti-social behaviour that goes on, and some provocation of locals and opposition fans.

You seem to think that anti-social, but non-violent from what I've seen and read from Marseille (including the lads on here and a couple of mates who were out there), behaviour justifies the French policing and makes England fans fair game for French and Russians to attack them.

I've seen much worse behaviour, criminal behaviour and vandalism, going on at the peaceful protests over here. When the police then take action you're full of your militant support for the small guys standing up the system and how it's an over-reaction by the authorities etc. I'm just a bit miffed why your attitude seems rather different when it's drunken blokes, and defenseless women and families, that are on the end of it in France.

Just seems a bit hypocritical from where I'm sitting.

I'd question what 'peaceful protests' you've seen doing this, but here's my position laid out. There are in my view three types of England fan:

A: Proper England hooligans- not victims, they want to dish it out and can take it.
B: The lads who might be really nice most of the time and aren't hooligans looking for a fight necessarily but get so smashed they don't know what they're doing, some are aggressive physically, verbally, do stupid things and act in a way that pisses off the locals even if it's socially acceptable here This is a really grey area as this group is much bigger than other nationalities who seem to just have group A and C. And it depends so much on what people have done individually, but also what group they're in and what the rest of the group has done, and also what happens to them- Don't deserve a proper Russian style kicking, but at the same time aren't as innocent as they might make out to a TV camera the next morning, or even the same day, or their family when they get home.
C: Peaceful happy drunks who have a few beers and a sing song- don't deserve it.

My issue is that many like RL don't seem to accept that group B exists, either because it's all black and white to them or they just see most of what you do drunk as acceptable as long as it's not directly seeking one on one fist fighting.

[Nameless]

Bit bemused that Stan Collymore is being quoted as a reliable source. If he did have his video camera with him then he's more likely to have late night car park footage than anything relating to football isn't he ?

[Hoop Blah]

Bit bemused that Stan Collymore is being quoted as a reliable source. If he did have his video camera with him then he's more likely to have late night car park footage than anything relating to football isn't he ?

He's at least got experience of slapping defenceless women about at football tournaments too.

[George_]

Got back from Marseille yesterday.

Friday night it all kicked off in the port. I was just sat in the port having a drink. There was about 200 English stood singing, causing no trouble and just having a good time. Next minute 200 French riot police charge at the English letting off tear gas everywhere they could. French police's mentality was if there's a big group it will kick off, when in reality it was just a group of lads having some drinks and having a good time. This led to a lot of locals coming out to cause more trouble. Yet the English got the blame? Nice one.

Saturday is when the Russians caused havoc across the port. You know what they were up too when you saw them with gum shields & knuckle dusters. Yet while they were chasing/chucking anything they could at us we still got tear gassed by the police? yep that actually happened. By 5 that afternoon it looked like a bomb had gone off in the port.

Security to get in the ground was generally pretty weak with a quick pat down and not much else (Russians got fireworks/firecrackers and whatever else in).

Coming back from the game around the streets of Marseile with locals & Russians after us wasn't much fun either.

Nice to see now a large number of people are starting to believe 99% of us English were innocent this weekend.

[Hoop Blah]

There are in my view three types of England fan:

A: Proper England hooligans- not victims, they want to dish it out and can take it.
B: The lads who might be really nice most of the time and aren't hooligans looking for a fight necessarily but get so smashed they don't know what they're doing, some are aggressive physically, verbally, do stupid things and act in a way that pisses off the locals even if it's socially acceptable here This is a really grey area as this group is much bigger than other nationalities who seem to just have group A and C. And it depends so much on what people have done individually, but also what group they're in and what the rest of the group has done, and also what happens to them- Don't deserve a proper Russian style kicking, but at the same time aren't as innocent as they might make out to a TV camera the next morning, or even the same day, or their family when they get home.
C: Peaceful happy drunks who have a few beers and a sing song- don't deserve it.

My issue is that many like RL don't seem to accept that group B exists, either because it's all black and white to them or they just see most of what you do drunk as acceptable as long as it's not directly seeking one on one fist fighting.

You've missed out D, the families, children and couples who go along without any of the antics of the above but still get caught up in the indiscriminate attacks by some opposition fans (who don't seem to follow the same code as the old school types in A or B) and the broad-brush tactics of the French Police.

I still think it's a bit incredulous that you think those in group B are deserving of a good kicking, tear gassing or truncheon beating for jumping up and down and singing some distasteful songs here and there.

I've not read anything about England fans nicking flags as the catalyst to the first round of troubles on Thursday and Friday but you're obviously better informed because you saw some England fans a few years ago somewhere completely different...

[Ian Royal]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

UEFA also rolling out the ultra tough suspended disqualification

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36528403

I think they've realised the can of worms they'd opened by threatening to kick out both teams because of what has happened in the old port etc as opposed to the stadium, which is their domain. It will be interesting to see if they've got the balls to follow through if Russia cause trouble in the stadium tomorrow. My guess would be they won't

UEFA doesn't have an army, or nuclear deterrent so probably best not to piss off Putin, especially as quite a few of them will probably be visiting Russia in a couple of years.

[St Pauli]

There are in my view three types of England fan:

A: Proper England hooligans- not victims, they want to dish it out and can take it.
B: The lads who might be really nice most of the time and aren't hooligans looking for a fight necessarily but get so smashed they don't know what they're doing, some are aggressive physically, verbally, do stupid things and act in a way that pisses off the locals even if it's socially acceptable here This is a really grey area as this group is much bigger than other nationalities who seem to just have group A and C. And it depends so much on what people have done individually, but also what group they're in and what the rest of the group has done, and also what happens to them- Don't deserve a proper Russian style kicking, but at the same time aren't as innocent as they might make out to a TV camera the next morning, or even the same day, or their family when they get home.
C: Peaceful happy drunks who have a few beers and a sing song- don't deserve it.

My issue is that many like RL don't seem to accept that group B exists, either because it's all black and white to them or they just see most of what you do drunk as acceptable as long as it's not directly seeking one on one fist fighting.

You've missed out D, the families, children and couples who go along without any of the antics of the above but still get caught up in the indiscriminate attacks by some opposition fans (who don't seem to follow the same code as the old school types in A or B) and the broad-brush tactics of the French Police.

I still think it's a bit incredulous that you think those in group B are deserving of a good kicking, tear gassing or truncheon beating for jumping up and down and singing some distasteful songs here and there.

I've not read anything about England fans nicking flags as the catalyst to the first round of troubles on Thursday and Friday but you're obviously better informed because you saw some England fans a few years ago somewhere completely different...

I'd include D in the C, but fair enough add D on if if you want.

Scroll down this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lence.html there's a French woman and it suggests England fans were trying to nick her flag.

Let's take an example then of group B the lads in Germay in this video from 26 minutes to 28: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhU0PXD7KI
Are they proper English hooligans just there looking for a fight? No. Are they pcunts who deserve a kicking? IMO yes and yes.

[Hoop Blah]

You've used a story about a night of unprovoked attacks on England fans, in the Daily Mail of all places, to highlight one nutcase woman who started lobbing bottles because someone maybe tried to nick her flag.

I don't think that implied accusation really supports the idea that English thugs deserved 3 nights of attacks because drunken hoards were on a flag stealing rampage...

Another way to look at it, by your logic, is that she sounds like she was a violent nutcase inciting England fans by flaunting the Tricolour over their blooded bodies after getting a kicking of the local gangs. What a lovely woman she sounds, not sure if she's a B or an A now!

[St Pauli]

You've used a story about a night of unprovoked attacks on England fans, in the Daily Mail of all places, to highlight one nutcase woman who started lobbing bottles because someone maybe tried to nick her flag.

I don't think that implied accusation really supports the idea that English thugs deserved 3 nights of attacks because drunken hoards were on a flag stealing rampage...

Another way to look at it, by your logic, is that she sounds like she was a violent nutcase inciting England fans by flaunting the Tricolour over their blooded bodies after getting a kicking of the local gangs. What a lovely woman she sounds, not sure if she's a B or an A now!

That Mail article is a long list of all the stuff on all three days all lumped into one. The French flag thing happened on the Thursday afternoon.

Nice to see you've ignored the English fans in Germany. In the same clip the German coppers do the same, stand back and let it happen, hence no tear gas and baton charges in Germany 2006. Looks like the French Ultras and filth didn't see it the same way.

[Maneki Neko]

Same Russian thugs. Same uniform in lille tonight. Just two if em trying to draw fans out into the same alley based ambushes

Nicely rebuffed with some Anglo Welsh unity and a single French bar owner

[No Fixed Abode]

Same Russian thugs. Same uniform in lille tonight. Just two if em trying to draw fans out into the same alley based ambushes

Nicely rebuffed with some Anglo Welsh unity and a single French bar owner

Yep - with some bottles being thrown by the English and Welsh which nearly hit an old lady..

[Uke]

It seems the French authorities are trying to even up the numbers a little bit today.

According to this http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36526723 29 Russian fans are being deported. Problem is it looks like the French have target the Russian equivalents of Denny Fullbrook and his Coach One chums as being the sacrificial lambs for some French justice.

UEFA also rolling out the ultra tough suspended disqualification

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36528403

Let's see if they use it, there's been some incidents in Lille already

[AthleticoSpizz]

Impunity outside of the ground?

[Maneki Neko]

Except when its England

[Hoop Blah]

That Mail article is a long list of all the stuff on all three days all lumped into one. The French flag thing happened on the Thursday afternoon.

Nice to see you've ignored the English fans in Germany. In the same clip the German coppers do the same, stand back and let it happen, hence no tear gas and baton charges in Germany 2006. Looks like the French Ultras and filth didn't see it the same way.

Right, so you think those blokes from Germany 2006, in your group B, are deserving of some state sponsored beatings from the Police etc. That's fine, if that's what you think.

Actions will spark a reaction yes, and I've no real argument with that, but it's just a bit inconsistent with your approach to the anti-capitalist and anti-austerity marches that start getting a bit out of hand and result in a bit of heavy handed policing.

My main gripe was, in general, that the was very little protection of the innocents, be that in group B, C or D who got caught in the cross fire. The authorities have a duty to look after those people, those visiting UK citizens, and I'd prefer it if the media and people like yourself didn't immediately paint an incorrect picture of events just because of your preconceived and bigoted views.