What is the point in HRK

[Victor Meldrew]

It's been a funny old week-Simon Church scored from 5 yards last night against (his level?) Blackpool.
These 2 ex-Premier stars can be seen in action on Saturday when we play at Charlton and I wonder if either or both will look anything but what they are-lower level championship and/or higher level Div 1 when assessed over a whole season rather than in the occasional game where they turn up.

[Snowball]

It's been a funny old week-Simon Church scored from 5 yards last night against (his level?) Blackpool.
These 2 ex-Premier stars can be seen in action on Saturday when we play at Charlton and I wonder if either or both will look anything but what they are-lower level championship and/or higher level Div 1 when assessed over a whole season rather than in the occasional game where they turn up.

Interesting thet Steve Coppell thought enough of Simon Church
that he played him in a PO Semi-Final when he was about 4

[Hoop Blah]

I'm not getting desperate at all Snowball. I don't think his ability to score the odd goal in the Premier League a few seasons ago really has much influence on his ability to be a key player for us now in the Championship under a different manager.

I'm aware of why you posted the teams he scored against. The notion was that he score less-worthy goals as such. I'm just adding some more context to that list of his goals as I think that changes the way that may answer the question put forward.

I don't really rate him having watched a lot of his 150+ games for the club but I've never said he doesn't have moments of great ability or promise thrown in amongst a lot of very average contributions.

[Hoop Blah]

Interesting thet Steve Coppell thought enough of Simon Church
that he played him in a PO Semi-Final when he was about 4

Funny how he hadn't thought enough of him to play him before that point though....

We also lost that play-off of course, although Church did ok that night.

[Snowball]

It's been a funny old week-Simon Church scored from 5 yards last night against (his level?) Blackpool.
These 2 ex-Premier stars can be seen in action on Saturday when we play at Charlton and I wonder if either or both will look anything but what they are-lower level championship and/or higher level Div 1 when assessed over a whole season rather than in the occasional game where they turn up.

I think it's fair to say that Simon Church is considered a failure or a League 1 Player


Here he compares to POG (Championship, FA Cup and League Cup Only)

Pog edges him but not by that much (and Church has played wing a fair bit)



296 Mins per Goal, 214 Mins per Goal or assist CHURCH
254 Mins per Goal, 196 Mins per Goal or assist POGREBNYAK



CHURCH

26 Goals 11 Assists in 8,300 Minutes Championship
04 Goals 02 Assists in 1,187 Minutes FA Cup
03 Goals 00 Assists in 0,336 Minutes League Cup

33 Goals 13 Assists in 9,823 Minutes

= 298 Mins/Goal
= 214 Minutes per Goal or Assist




POGREBNYAK

16 Goals 06 Assists in 4,330 Minutes Championship
00 Goals 00 Assists in 0,256 Minutes FA Cup
04 Goals 00 Assists in 0,498 Minutes League Cup

20 Goals 06 Assists in 5,084 Minutes

= 254 Minutes per Goal
= 196 Minutes per Goal or Assist

[Snowball]

Interesting thet Steve Coppell thought enough of Simon Church
that he played him in a PO Semi-Final when he was about 4

Funny how he hadn't thought enough of him to play him before that point though....

We also lost that play-off of course, although Church did ok that night.

he was a kid, wasn't he? How old was he that night?

[Snowball]

7 Goals in a season in the Prem is a very decent tally, especially as he only played 1279 minutes

[Hoop Blah]

7 Goals in a season in the Prem is a very decent tally, especially as he only played 1279 minutes

It is yes. But it doesn't mean he's any good.

As my extra context shows, it means he was pretty good at scoring late goals in games that were all but over. Neither bits of information mean he's an effective centre forward (I think his performances have killed that off by the way) or that he's a consistently dangerous winger who can both create and take chances whilst giving enough support to his fullback.

[Hoop Blah]

he was a kid, wasn't he? How old was he that night?

He would've been 20/21 I think yes. He'd been around quite a while though and not been involved before so it's not like Coppell thought he was the next Neville Roach or Peter Castle.

[SCIAG]

he was a kid, wasn't he? How old was he that night?

He would've been 20/21 I think yes. He'd been around quite a while though and not been involved before so it's not like Coppell thought he was the next Neville Roach or Peter Castle.

He was 20. He's several months older than Karacan, who made his debut at the start of the season rather than the end...

wrt. Church's record, he had a great breakthrough season under Rodgers and McDermott, but has since dropped off a lot. I'd be interested in seeing how his record since then stands up to Pogrebnyak's...

[Snowball]

7 Goals in a season in the Prem is a very decent tally, especially as he only played 1279 minutes

It is yes. But it doesn't mean he's any good.

As my extra context shows, it means he was pretty good at scoring late goals in games that were all but over. Neither bits of information mean he's an effective centre forward (I think his performances have killed that off by the way) or that he's a consistently dangerous winger who can both create and take chances whilst giving enough support to his fullback.

Just curious, how many players who have scored 7 goals at the rate of one every 181 minutes
do you think are "no good"?

In 2012 HRK made 13 (12) = 25 appearances = 1279 minutes = "14 full games"

This is this season's Premier League top-scorers after 29 games

18 104 mins/goal Diego Costa
17 102 mins/goal Sergio Agüero
16 111 mins/goal Harry Kane
15 150 mins/goal Charlie Austin
13 166 mins/goal Alexis Sánchez

12 186 mins/goal Saido Berahino
11 093 mins/goal Papiss Demba Cissé
11 106 mins/goal Olivier Giroud
11 200 mins/goal Wayne Rooney

10 247 mins/goal Eden Hazard
10 181 mins/goal David Silva
10 199 mins/goal Robin van Persie

09 160 mins/goal Wilfried Bony
09 265 mins/goal Christian Eriksen
09 247 mins/goal Danny Ings
09 170 mins/goal Diafra Sakho

08 214 mins/goal Nacer Chadli
08 201 mins/goal Nikica Jelavic
08 291 mins/goal Romelu Lukaku
08 306 mins/goal Graziano Pellè


07 181 mins/goal Hal Robson Kanu (2012-13)
07 217 mins/goal Peter Crouch
07 234 mins/goal Leonardo Ulloa
07 249 mins/goal Mame Biram Diouf
07 253 mins/goal Jonathan Walters
07 317 mins/goal Santiago Cazorla

[Snowball]

wrt. Church's record, he had a great breakthrough season under Rodgers and McDermott, but has since dropped off a lot. I'd be interested in seeing how his record since then stands up to Pogrebnyak's..

Poorly, no doubt. He's a shadow of his promising younger self

But the The Pog isn't exactly ripping up trees...

[Hoop Blah]

Just curious, how many players who have scored 7 goals at the rate of one every 181 minutes
do you think are "no good"?

In 2012 HRK made 13 (12) = 25 appearances = 1279 minutes = "14 full games"

I'll tell you what, you give me the full list of current players who've done it and the funding to go and watch all of them live 50+ times and I'll come back with the definitive answer for you.

As it stands the list, as far as I know, is at least 1 though.

[Snowball]

Just curious, how many players who have scored 7 goals at the rate of one every 181 minutes
do you think are "no good"?

In 2012 HRK made 13 (12) = 25 appearances = 1279 minutes = "14 full games"

I'll tell you what, you give me the full list of current players who've done it and the funding to go and watch all of them live 50+ times and I'll come back with the definitive answer for you.

As it stands the list, as far as I know, is at least 1 though.

Meaning = "Hoop Blah has decided Hal Robson Kanu isn't very good."

[Victor Meldrew]

Hoop Blah is far from being alone in feeling that the player is no good and just because Kanu got a few goals in the Prem some years ago has no bearing on whether he is any good NOW which is the issue of this topic.

[Angry Shed Sex]

In 2012 HRK made 13 (12) = 25 appearances = 1279 minutes = "14 full games"

Known as the Shane Long Conundrum. No it doesn't. How many games did he actually start and play the full 90?

[Hoop Blah]

Meaning = "Hoop Blah has decided Hal Robson Kanu isn't very good."

Funnily enough it's my opinion yes. I was the one that formed it and have now expressed it.

Kind of the point of the discussion isn't it?

[Za Vas]

As others have mentioned, it's the incredible inconsistency shown by HRK that winds me up.

If you've ever watched him play for Wales he is always one of the better performers which makes it even more infuriating when he can't replicate that form for us. No doubt he's got the ability, he just hasn't shown it on a regular basis over the last 2/3 years.

[Victor Meldrew]

On the point about the performances my view FWIW is that in international games there is not so much rough and tumble or tight marking compared to club football where he is so easily roughed up and doesn't have the space or time.
Also playing for Wales there is the little matter of Gareth Bale who has the attention of more than one marker leaving other players on his side with more space.

[Snowball]

Hoop Blah is far from being alone in feeling that the player is no good and just because Kanu got a few goals in the Prem some years ago has no bearing on whether he is any good NOW which is the issue of this topic.

This list trashed Shane Long (will never be a footballer), Mills, Leigertwood,
Hunt 1 & 2, Rosenior,... Kebe was Bambi on Ice, and I'm sure many others