Sanguine Again, the problem is not VAR, but that no-one seems to know how to use it.
I know I'm a broken record here, but the 'power' should sit with the VAR official to ask the referee to look at some footage. Or, the referee should ask the VAR official if he wants to look at a one of a very strict set of events.
Most of the incidents referred last night should not have been.
Hoop BlahSanguine Again, the problem is not VAR, but that no-one seems to know how to use it.
I know I'm a broken record here, but the 'power' should sit with the VAR official to ask the referee to look at some footage. Or, the referee should ask the VAR official if he wants to look at a one of a very strict set of events.
Most of the incidents referred last night should not have been.
It's good that this is being tested and piloted (even though I'm obviously against it) but there will have to be a time where those in favour might have to accept that if VAR is consistently misused then it might just be a bit of a fanciful theoretical solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
In the heat of the battle it might be that it's just too complicated, too subjective or just too time consuming to make it work even if it does seem quick and simple to do sat at a desk in Soho Square, Stockley Park or Fleet Street.
Sanguine It's a mindset shift that is required, until football fans are willing to accept a referee's decision as final - and that will come only with better use of the system.
As for being a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, I'd expect any fan resisting VAR to pipe down when in future Reading or England or whoever are subject to an obvious error which, after all, is what VAR (and all technology) is trying to eliminate (for example, Lampard's goal, Henry's handball, Liverpool's 'goal' in the CL semi vs Chelsea), or our ghost goal vs Watford.
by Sebastian the Red » 01 Mar 2018 12:21
Hoop BlahSanguine It's a mindset shift that is required, until football fans are willing to accept a referee's decision as final - and that will come only with better use of the system.
As for being a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, I'd expect any fan resisting VAR to pipe down when in future Reading or England or whoever are subject to an obvious error which, after all, is what VAR (and all technology) is trying to eliminate (for example, Lampard's goal, Henry's handball, Liverpool's 'goal' in the CL semi vs Chelsea), or our ghost goal vs Watford.
VAR is a huge threat to the idea of the referees decision being final though. The mindset shift should happen yes, but VAR just undermines it and is pandering to the whole idea of a referee changing his mind.
The game has survived and flourished with the fallibility of referee for 100 odd years. England have been on the wrong end of a couple of major mistakes by the officials, and possibly a few major decisions in our favour too, and it hasn't led to the demise of the game.
As I've said all along, I'd rather preserve the flow of the game than try and correct a few clear and obvious errors along the way. For me it's just too high a price to pay when the game (at the highest level at least) is already under threat from apathy and increasing levels of boredom.
Sebastian the Red They didn't get a single thing wrong last night.
Sebastian the Red It's not a threat to the referee at all. In rugby union the video ref system is used to bring things to the ref's attention - the ref, on the pitch, still has the final say. The ref's decision absolutely still is final.
genomeleon Who gives a shit?
Quite a few people, m8
by AthleticoSpizz » 01 Mar 2018 12:34
by Sebastian the Red » 01 Mar 2018 12:40
Hoop BlahSebastian the Red It's not a threat to the referee at all. In rugby union the video ref system is used to bring things to the ref's attention - the ref, on the pitch, still has the final say. The ref's decision absolutely still is final.
The issue for me is that it justifies more pressure being put on the ref to double check things. It gives players an excuse to harangue the officials and put more doubt in their mind and it just gets in the way of the gam.
Rugby is, like cricket, a stop start game made up of set piece moments. Yes football has stoppages in play, but it's a lot more fluid as a game and I think the game suffers greatly by adding another reason to slow the game down and disrupt the flow even more than the gamesmanship and tactical timewasting etc has over the last 20/30 years.
Sebastian the Red Again, that’s a problem with the culture of the game though. If footballers can’t be trusted not to harass the refs, then the refs needs to be stronger. The problem is that footballers are a bunch of uneducated chavs, and they don’t have any respect for anything other than their own pay packets. If a ref actually officiated player behaviour in line with the laws of the game then they’d have to abandon every match due to insufficient players after all the red cards for relentless abuse and lack of respect - and the ref would get the blame.
In rugby the players call the ref sir and do as they’re told - one of many reasons why it’s a far, far superior game.
by Sebastian the Red » 01 Mar 2018 13:28
Hoop BlahSebastian the Red Again, that’s a problem with the culture of the game though. If footballers can’t be trusted not to harass the refs, then the refs needs to be stronger. The problem is that footballers are a bunch of uneducated chavs, and they don’t have any respect for anything other than their own pay packets. If a ref actually officiated player behaviour in line with the laws of the game then they’d have to abandon every match due to insufficient players after all the red cards for relentless abuse and lack of respect - and the ref would get the blame.
In rugby the players call the ref sir and do as they’re told - one of many reasons why it’s a far, far superior game.
It is a problem with the culture of the game yes, and VAR isn't going to help with it, it's more likely to make it worse, IMO. That behaviour and culture is a blight on the game but unfortunately it's probably as much a reflection on society as it is just the sport itself (although football, the money involved and the attention on it certainly magnifies it).
You can't ignore the reality of the culture when implementing VAR though. It operates within the real world, not some utopian sporting existence where everyone plays by the rules and respects each other and the officials.
by Victor Meldrew » 01 Mar 2018 14:11
by Sebastian the Red » 01 Mar 2018 14:35
genome Not sure about citing TMO here considering it got a decision wrong in the England v Wales match.
by Sebastian the Red » 01 Mar 2018 15:02
genome NZ vs Lions had a wrong decision as well. NZ vs Wales in 2016. Scotland vs Australia in the RWC 2015. It's not the perfect system you think it is.
The constant comparison with Rugby is flawed anyway. Completely different sport, much more black-and-white and less open to interpretation of the rules. The flow of the game is also completely different.
Football's just not suited to it.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 49 guests