Ghana v Uruguay

[Maguire]

Totally different but each gets exactly the same punishment

Well they're not totally different, they're the same offence in the laws of the game. Handball on the line, denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, sent off, penalty, ban. That's it. Saying it was "blatantly pre-conceived" is a bit ridiculous when the whole incident occured in a split second. He reacted how he reacted and got punished for it.

I also don't think the fact that it was in the last minute (thus denying Uruguay a player for one second rather than eg. one hour) is relevant. Offences shouldn't incur variable punishment due to which point in the game they take place in. Suarez has lost his place in the semi-finals and the reason they didn't get knocked out of the WC altogether is because Gyan couldn't hit the target with a free shot from 12 yards. Done and done.

They're the same offence only inasmuch as they were both handball on the line. In the case of the Aussie, a "clear goalscoring opportunity" is debatable as the ball more hit him than the other way around but that was certainly not the case with Suarez but whatever.

I don't think that when the incident happened has any relevance and I;ve never said that it did. His one match ban will take him out of the semi-finals; I think it should be a 2 match ban and finish his World Cup/

It will make a total mockery of all of FIFA;s Fair Play initiatives if we see Saurez doing a lap of honour with the World Cup if Uruguay end up winning won't it?

1. The relevance of the timing thing wasn't directed at you - someone earlier in the deb8 sait it wasn't fair it was in the last minute so they were only down to ten men for a moment

2. If it's given as handball then it has to be deliberate. There are no degrees of deliberacy, so Kewell stopping the shot with his arm was stopping a clear goal as the referee deemed it deliberate.

3. No, I don't think it makes a mockery of anything if Suarez wins the World Cup. That's like saying Klose shouldn't lift the cup because he took down a couple of Serbs in the second match and got sent off.

[Hoop Blah]

Watching that again are the two Ghana players offside after Pantsil's initial header? They are the two players who went on to have the next shot and the final header. Surely that means it shouldn't have even got to the stage where Suarez handballed it?

As I pointed out a couple of pages ago...I think Appiah is offside in the build up but arguably it's in a different phase of play so it's debatable.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

2. If it's given as handball then it has to be deliberate. There are no degrees of deliberacy, so Kewell stopping the shot with his arm was stopping a clear goal as the referee deemed it deliberate. .

That's not quite true. Deliberate doesn't mean that you intended to handle the ball. It means that you deliberately put your arm in that position. If your arm is by you side and it hits your arm, that's not handball, even if it prevents a goal. If your arm is up or out to the side, and it strikes your arm, even unintentionally, it's handball. Some fullback spread their arms when against a winger, to give him a big obstacle to get past. If the ball hits, it's handball, even if it's "ball to hand".


How you'd define deliberate isn't easy though. It's one of those things that you know it when you see it, but defining it is a different matter

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart framed the imprecise definition of hardpore cornography pretty much thus ^

[Maguire]

2. If it's given as handball then it has to be deliberate. There are no degrees of deliberacy, so Kewell stopping the shot with his arm was stopping a clear goal as the referee deemed it deliberate. .

That's not quite true. Deliberate doesn't mean that you intended to handle the ball. It means that you deliberately put your arm in that position. If your arm is by you side and it hits your arm, that's not handball, even if it prevents a goal. If your arm is up or out to the side, and it strikes your arm, even unintentionally, it's handball. Some fullback spread their arms when against a winger, to give him a big obstacle to get past. If the ball hits, it's handball, even if it's "ball to hand".


How you'd define deliberate isn't easy though. It's one of those things that you know it when you see it, but defining it is a different matter

Not sure what part of my post isn't true? Kewell and Suarez both deliberately handled (as per your description) and were punished accordingly.

[Mr Angry]

The thing about Suarez is, by going on record afterwards saying that his is now the Hand of God, and that his handball was a miracle etc etc is basically extracting the urine out of FIFA; he should have got a 2nd match ban for ungentlemanly conduct IMHO.

[Archie's penalty]

The thing about Suarez is, by going on record afterwards saying that his is now the Hand of God, and that his handball was a miracle etc etc is basically extracting the urine out of FIFA; he should have got a 2nd match ban for ungentlemanly conduct IMHO.

Yep. He shouldn't have done that. Still fuels the flames for tomorrow's match.

[Sarah Star]

Exactly! It's like profiting from a crime.