VAR

[Franchise FC]

I thought I had got to grips-ish with the handball rule …. until the Palace goal against Spurs

If that isn’t a case of hitting the arm directly leading to a goal, then what is ?

No real skin in that particular game, and the decision is unlikely to have long term consequences but now I’m back to being flummoxed

[Snowflake Royal]

Not a fan of VAR...don't really celebrate goals as they're likely to be reviewed and possibly chalked off

I'm not sure that is what it meant to achieve

Another issue with it is the stupid officials, they don't seeem to referee properly any more just wait for VAR to tell them something in their earhole. I thought VAR was meant to be there to help refs if they made an error, not to do their job for them.

That's my biggest beef with VAR. It's breeding a generation of officials who don't have to make decisions themselves because they know VAR will pick things up for them. So they're already starting to avoid anything contentious on the pitch.

Before long there'll be no on-field decisions made because referees will have lost the ability (or the guts) to do that themselves.

That would only really be true if VAR was at all levels.

All refs have to work their way up through the pyramid to get to the one division with VAR and the entire way they have to make decisions with no VAR.

[South Coast Royal]

Another issue with it is the stupid officials, they don't seeem to referee properly any more just wait for VAR to tell them something in their earhole. I thought VAR was meant to be there to help refs if they made an error, not to do their job for them.

That's my biggest beef with VAR. It's breeding a generation of officials who don't have to make decisions themselves because they know VAR will pick things up for them. So they're already starting to avoid anything contentious on the pitch.

Before long there'll be no on-field decisions made because referees will have lost the ability (or the guts) to do that themselves.

That would only really be true if VAR was at all levels.

All refs have to work their way up through the pyramid to get to the one division with VAR and the entire way they have to make decisions with no VAR.

I expect lower levels of the professional game will get it in time just as they have goal line technology.
It might take a while for levels below the Championship because of the costs.

[Sutekh]

That's my biggest beef with VAR. It's breeding a generation of officials who don't have to make decisions themselves because they know VAR will pick things up for them. So they're already starting to avoid anything contentious on the pitch.

Before long there'll be no on-field decisions made because referees will have lost the ability (or the guts) to do that themselves.

That would only really be true if VAR was at all levels.

All refs have to work their way up through the pyramid to get to the one division with VAR and the entire way they have to make decisions with no VAR.

I expect lower levels of the professional game will get it in time just as they have goal line technology.
It might take a while for levels below the Championship because of the costs.

GLT is only in the PL and Championship, no-one gives a **** about Leagues 1 & 2 so they don't have anything helpful to officials. The FA and FL should be encouraging all clubs to have GLT & then VAR installed so the main league competition and the two major domestic cups in England regains some integrity by all being played to the same standard and rules at all grounds.

[BRO_BOT]

Soft as fook pen for a Rodri dive in the derby.

Hojland should have dived when Stones put his arm on his shoulder

[South Coast Royal]

Soft as fook pen for a Rodri dive in the derby.

Hojland should have dived when Stones put his arm on his shoulder

Can't remember a derby game at any level before where one side just lets the other one play.
Surely Man Utd will have a go in the second half especially as they are at home.

[Orion1871]

Are they going to have offsides in this years Manchester derby? They didn't bother with them last year.

[Sanguine]

Proof were it needed that PGMOL's suspension/demotion of PL referees is nothing but lip-service.

https://twitter.com/The_Forty_Four/stat ... 1278893076

This is what Antony Taylor did with his week in the Championship, awarding Preston a penalty after their striker fell over in a heap. Some evidence of 'contact', but the defender trips over his own feet and brushes his opponent's shirt on the way down. If it really is a foul, it has to be a red card, whilst rules on 'denying an opportunity' have been relaxed they don't extend to when the defender makes no attempt to play the ball.

Anyway, Taylor's reward is to referee Chelsea v Man City this weekend.

[Sutekh]

Proof were it needed that PGMOL's suspension/demotion of PL referees is nothing but lip-service.

https://twitter.com/The_Forty_Four/stat ... 1278893076

This is what Antony Taylor did with his week in the Championship, awarding Preston a penalty after their striker fell over in a heap. Some evidence of 'contact', but the defender trips over his own feet and brushes his opponent's shirt on the way down. If it really is a foul, it has to be a red card, whilst rules on 'denying an opportunity' have been relaxed they don't extend to when the defender makes no attempt to play the ball.

Anyway, Taylor's reward is to referee Chelsea v Man City this weekend.

Something needs to change with PGMOL, this season has proven they're really not fit for purpose. It can't go on with the terrible inconsistencies and just plainly wrong decisions even when VAR is available as it's making a mockery of the PL and creating unnecessary tensions between clubs and supporters. How about an independent panel to decide whether refs should be suspended or demoted and for how long etc. or maybe (as there should be with Profit/Sustainability rules) a clearly defined set of sanctions that will be applied for each failure so everyone knows what to expect.

[Sanguine]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

[BRO_BOT]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

Players on the pitch getting 'cold' and fans waiting with no idea of what is going on doesn't sound great. Also, it's a game for entertainment

Agree that 'clear and obvious error' is causing problems. Creates a gray area which leads to inconsistency.

I'd happily get rid of it until we have the proper tech. Waiting 'ten mins' to figure out if I can celebrate a goal seems a bit shit

May currently be useful for awarding penalties and red cards

[Silver Fox]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly.

Trouble is when VAR was orginally mooted we were sold it on the basis that decisions would be made in 4 seconds on average (or something, think I saw a tweet (an X) about it)

[South Coast Royal]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

Players on the pitch getting 'cold' and fans waiting with no idea of what is going on doesn't sound great. Also, it's a game for entertainment

Agree that 'clear and obvious error' is causing problems. Creates a gray area which leads to inconsistency.

I'd happily get rid of it until we have the proper tech. Waiting 'ten mins' to figure out if I can celebrate a goal seems a bit shit

May currently be useful for awarding penalties and red cards

Hadn't thought about players getting cold through standing around because we thought initially that decisions would be made in the space of seconds rather than minutes.
Maybe a system where if the VAR chaps can't make up their mind within say 90 seconds the on field decision stands.

[Sanguine]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly.

Trouble is when VAR was orginally mooted we were sold it on the basis that decisions would be made in 4 seconds on average (or something, think I saw a tweet (an X) about it)

PGMOL/Premier League might help themselves in that regard by accepting the semi-auto offside tech that has worked with precisely zero errors in the major tournaments in which it has been trialled.

To Brobers' point, it is up to players to keep themselves loose. Decisions aren't going to take ten minutes. But they should be made correctly. The reality though on decisions taking a long time is that they shouldn't. The glaring mistakes we have seen haven't taken a long time to arrive, thy have just seen VAR officials make utterly ludicrous calls.

Finally, VAR decisions should be communicated to fans with relevant footage. That's a simple improvement.

[BRO_BOT]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

Players on the pitch getting 'cold' and fans waiting with no idea of what is going on doesn't sound great. Also, it's a game for entertainment

Agree that 'clear and obvious error' is causing problems. Creates a gray area which leads to inconsistency.

I'd happily get rid of it until we have the proper tech. Waiting 'ten mins' to figure out if I can celebrate a goal seems a bit shit

May currently be useful for awarding penalties and red cards

Hadn't thought about players getting cold through standing around because we thought initially that decisions would be made in the space of seconds rather than minutes.
Maybe a system where if the VAR chaps can't make up their mind within say 90 seconds the on field decision stands.

If it's taking more than 90 seconds to make an offside decision then I'd guess that the 'general spirit' of why the law was set up hasn't been broken

[Franchise FC]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

I’ve always advocated a 15-20 second window
If you can’t tell in that time the on field decision stands

[Sanguine]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

I’ve always advocated a 15-20 second window
If you can’t tell in that time the on field decision stands

Not for me. I want the decision to be correct. Why as football fans do we feel that we have somehow earned a game that does not stop? If errors are made why would we not want them corrected? Cricket does it. Rugby does it. Golf is ruled by a million eagle-eyed rules officials. Tennis now uses technology for line calls. Video replays can be used in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and decisions are communicated clearly to fans when they are ready. But football, for some reason we reject tech, because we might have to wait a bit to get to the correct answer. I find it bizarre.

[genome]

I agree with the sentiment but "correct" seems to be very subjective in football nowadays... just look at the United goal ruled out, the ref was asked to make a "subjective call" after about 5 minutes and quite a lot of people disagree with it

If there is a correct call then it shouldn't take that long to see it or arrive at it. The longer you look at stuff the deeper you get into subjectivity

[YorkshireRoyal99]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

I’ve always advocated a 15-20 second window
If you can’t tell in that time the on field decision stands

Not for me. I want the decision to be correct. Why as football fans do we feel that we have somehow earned a game that does not stop? If errors are made why would we not want them corrected? Cricket does it. Rugby does it. Golf is ruled by a million eagle-eyed rules officials. Tennis now uses technology for line calls. Video replays can be used in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and decisions are communicated clearly to fans when they are ready. But football, for some reason we reject tech, because we might have to wait a bit to get to the correct answer. I find it bizarre.

Yep I agree. I do also understand the argument of, if you can't tell an error within 15-20 seconds then how do you know it's an error, but if we heard the conversations between the VAR and the officials it brings more transparency to the situation and people may understand the decisions made, or we would then be able to see exactly who, what or where the process fell down. But I'd much rather have correct decisions, or decisions we can see why they were made, rather than a time pressure. It's just embedded in the culture of football I think to make quick fire decisions.

[6ft Kerplunk]

How about an independent panel to decide whether refs should be suspended or demoted and for how long

Getting demoted should be got rid of and it should just be a suspension. Doesn't send out the greatest message to the football league if a ref makes an absolute howler of a decision and its seen as a punishment to ref a lower league match like the teams they officiate aren't worthy of a decent ref.