VAR

[BRO_BOT]

Well that's Utd fooked. I don't think it was a red card for Rashford. He accidentally stepped on the opponent's leg whilst shielding the ball (player was sliding in)

How the fook is that a pen for handball

[BRO_BOT]

Maguire was literally touching the player who kicked the ball

[BRO_BOT]

No way that's a pen either

[Pepe the Horseman]

No way that's a pen either

No, good strike though.

[Snowflake Royal]

As I've said before, I think key to improving the whole process is binning any notion that a decision should be arrived at promptly. The emphasis should be on a decision being correct and validated before communication to the on-field official.

And whilst I think it is important and should stay as a criteria, I think 'clear and obvious error' is contributing to the problems, because VAR officials are, in my view, trying to agree with their on-field colleagues. The supposed 'foul' by Hwang against Newcastle a clear example where VAR has essentially asked 'it is in any way possible that there was some minor contact causing the player to fall?', because the on-field decision was a penalty. The process here was easy and objective - 'is there evidence of a foul?' And there was nothing conclusive.

I’ve always advocated a 15-20 second window
If you can’t tell in that time the on field decision stands

They often have three angle of footage to watch, just trying queue all that up could take that long.

[paultheroyal]

its literally gone too far now. It has got out of control and just getting ridiculous. Decisions being pulled back to far from point of goal, or basic fouls (or not) being scrutinised that led to a goal. For me, until a better method is found, sped up, they need to agree on the following for VAR only.

Offsides.
Ball in and out of play that led to a goal.
Penalty awarded - inside / outside the box.
Red car offences - either to assist or overturn.

All other fouls, handballs are left to the referee. Might even out over course of a season, but the referee responsibility is being utterly diluted and they are now more an administrator of VAR on the field rather than a referee. To many managers are now nit picking ridiculous scenarios which could (or not) lead to a goal. Rashford's red card decision is a classic where no-one can agree what is right and what is wrong. Nearly every pundit has a view, media frenzy is making this all worse.

Back to the basics - and you will see a vast improvement.

[BRO_BOT]

its literally gone too far now. It has got out of control and just getting ridiculous. Decisions being pulled back to far from point of goal, or basic fouls (or not) being scrutinised that led to a goal. For me, until a better method is found, sped up, they need to agree on the following for VAR only.

Offsides.
Ball in and out of play that led to a goal.
Penalty awarded - inside / outside the box.
Red car offences - either to assist or overturn.

All other fouls, handballs are left to the referee. Might even out over course of a season, but the referee responsibility is being utterly diluted and they are now more an administrator of VAR on the field rather than a referee. To many managers are now nit picking ridiculous scenarios which could (or not) lead to a goal. Rashford's red card decision is a classic where no-one can agree what is right and what is wrong. Nearly every pundit has a view, media frenzy is making this all worse.

Back to the basics - and you will see a vast improvement.

My main gripe is you can't celebrate goals...you know, the bit we all came to see

I agree with what you said but would give back responsibility to the linesperson regarding offsides. If they give it as offside it gets checked otherwise it's a goal. The spirit of the offside law shouldn't come down to mm precision. Maybe have a quick review if they thought it was obvious, the sort of thing you'd describe in the pub as "he was fcuking miles offside"

re Rashord's red card, I can't even make my mind up about it. Clearly accidental but it 'looked' very bad

[paultheroyal]

its literally gone too far now. It has got out of control and just getting ridiculous. Decisions being pulled back to far from point of goal, or basic fouls (or not) being scrutinised that led to a goal. For me, until a better method is found, sped up, they need to agree on the following for VAR only.

Offsides.
Ball in and out of play that led to a goal.
Penalty awarded - inside / outside the box.
Red car offences - either to assist or overturn.

All other fouls, handballs are left to the referee. Might even out over course of a season, but the referee responsibility is being utterly diluted and they are now more an administrator of VAR on the field rather than a referee. To many managers are now nit picking ridiculous scenarios which could (or not) lead to a goal. Rashford's red card decision is a classic where no-one can agree what is right and what is wrong. Nearly every pundit has a view, media frenzy is making this all worse.

Back to the basics - and you will see a vast improvement.

My main gripe is you can't celebrate goals...you know, the bit we all came to see

I agree with what you said but would give back responsibility to the linesperson regarding offsides. If they give it as offside it gets checked otherwise it's a goal. The spirit of the offside law shouldn't come down to mm precision. Maybe have a quick review if they thought it was obvious, the sort of thing you'd describe in the pub as "he was fcuking miles offside"

re Rashord's red card, I can't even make my mind up about it. Clearly accidental but it 'looked' very bad

Offside is a tricky one - but i do think they have that right. Its the most common stoppage for a goal not being allowed. Linesman knows now whether its on or off - if blatant it goes up, if close it stays down but if he thinks its off it then goes up after play comes to an end. This is to prevent players stopping when seeing a flag, for it to then be on etc etc. Offisides is just the one we have to accept we are where we are now - but get what you are saying about lack of celebrations.

[Whore Jackie]

Indeed, apart from the obvious error at Spurs Liverpool, offsides on the whole haven't really been the crux of what's currently wrong with VAR. As Sanguine pointed out earlier, the semi-automated offside technology that FIFA have successfully trialled in the last few major tournaments, would only improve that. Plus their CGI representation of the offside, is miles clearer than the PGMOL red and green line presentation.

My biggest beef with VAR is their insistence on showing a still of the incident to the on-field ref first, rather than re-runs of the incident in real time speed from all the angles they have. That has to change.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Has there ever been a time where the ref has gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision?

[Franchise FC]

Has there ever been a time where the ref has gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision?

There has been, in a CL game last season, I think
But the number is almost unimaginably small

[BRO_BOT]

This is what we all wanted, VAR and the people operating it to be the main thing in football

[Stranded]

Has there ever been a time where the ref has gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision?

Do see it quite a lot in the Bundesliga but I think that is more to do with what seems like the more sensible way it has been implemented here - in the recent Eintract - Dortmund game - the Dortmund keeper rushed out and appeared to bring down the Frankfurt striker - no pen given but the VAR spoke to the ref and essentially said, looks like you made the right call from your angle but we've got another one you can check to be sure as looks like there may have been contact.

Ref went to look, decided the video wasn't conclusive so they stuck with the onfield call even though there probably was contact.

[Sanguine]

Liverpool's turned to get fcuked over again - equaliser struck off last night for a Mac Allister handball. Probably was a handball, but it happened way back in the build up, and possession changed hands twice in the meantime. Surely the 'phase of play' is over as soon as Toulouse win the ball?

The Premier League (admittedly not UEFA) guidance on phase of play is the time from which the attacking team takes possession of the ball, which in this example would be when Liverpool won it back and so would not include Mac Allister's handball.

[Sanguine]

Has there ever been a time where the ref has gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision?

Do see it quite a lot in the Bundesliga but I think that is more to do with what seems like the more sensible way it has been implemented here - in the recent Eintract - Dortmund game - the Dortmund keeper rushed out and appeared to bring down the Frankfurt striker - no pen given but the VAR spoke to the ref and essentially said, looks like you made the right call from your angle but we've got another one you can check to be sure as looks like there may have been contact.

Ref went to look, decided the video wasn't conclusive so they stuck with the onfield call even though there probably was contact.

Sounds sensible and logical. But returning to an earlier point I've made, wouldn't happen here as there is too much pressure for stuff to happen quickly. No time for fans here apparently to get decisions right, nevermind already having made the right call but making a further check on it.

[BRO_BOT]

Liverpool's turned to get fcuked over again - equaliser struck off last night for a Mac Allister handball. Probably was a handball, but it happened way back in the build up, and possession changed hands twice in the meantime. Surely the 'phase of play' is over as soon as Toulouse win the ball?

The Premier League (admittedly not UEFA) guidance on phase of play is the time from which the attacking team takes possession of the ball, which in this example would be when Liverpool won it back and so would not include Mac Allister's handball.

I was delighted to hear about it

it was a handball but you can see why it might not have been given

[Franchise FC]

Liverpool's turned to get fcuked over again - equaliser struck off last night for a Mac Allister handball. Probably was a handball, but it happened way back in the build up, and possession changed hands twice in the meantime. Surely the 'phase of play' is over as soon as Toulouse win the ball?

The Premier League (admittedly not UEFA) guidance on phase of play is the time from which the attacking team takes possession of the ball, which in this example would be when Liverpool won it back and so would not include Mac Allister's handball.

I was delighted to hear about it

it was a handball but you can see why it might not have been given

The PL guidance seems eminently sensible to me

[South Coast Royal]

Has there ever been a time where the ref has gone to the monitor and not overturned the original decision?

Do see it quite a lot in the Bundesliga but I think that is more to do with what seems like the more sensible way it has been implemented here - in the recent Eintract - Dortmund game - the Dortmund keeper rushed out and appeared to bring down the Frankfurt striker - no pen given but the VAR spoke to the ref and essentially said, looks like you made the right call from your angle but we've got another one you can check to be sure as looks like there may have been contact.

Ref went to look, decided the video wasn't conclusive so they stuck with the onfield call even though there probably was contact.

Don't tell Green that some things are done better in Europe.

[Sutekh]

I see the officials and VAR operators at this weekends matches call decisions into question again. Seems to me that the system is completely broken and someone somewhere needs to be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

Questions asked about the foul for the Liverpool penalty being the denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity which should therefore see Brighton reduced to 10. Meanwhile at the Emirates please explain how the hell Kovacic didn't get sent off and how the hell his first challenge was only a yellow while Jones was sent off at Spurs for pretty much the same sort of challenge.

Something really stinks with this at the moment. Most irritating thing about it is the utter lack of any consistancy as you're getting teams one week being done over by incompetence and then the next week similar match incidents get different decisions. If there was no VAR then inconsistencies and wrong calls are understandable but not when you have it in operation and therefore have experienced referees able to look at things from different angles and different speeds etc.

There's now two refs (Hooper last week and the Arsenal v City ref) who should be demoted immediately.

Hooper again! Waves play on, watches City make a breakaway pass and then blows for a foul.

[Winston Biscuit]

Was just reading that in Brazil yesterday, in both the Gremio match and Palmeiras match, VAR was shown on the big screen and the ref just stayed on the pitch and watched it up there, surrounded by players also watching it