England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Royal Rother » 13 Jun 2010 22:50

Tails Germans werem't afraid of putting Neuer in goal today - I believe he has only 6 caps to his name.

To state the obvious, English footballers neither mature as early as their German counterparts nor are blessed with same mental toughness, as evidenced by the fact that despite having arguably been blessed with a talent pool the equal of the Germans, in the last 40 years (West) Germany have reached An incredible 11 major finals whilst England have failed to even make one.

It may be different in 4 years time but at the moment Neuer >>>> Hart.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by floyd__streete » 13 Jun 2010 23:36

First of all, fair play USA. Decent performance, despite the joke of a goal you had one or two good chances and certainly worried England. The spine of your team looked solid and you denied England any space which meant we resorted to lumping it up to Heskey.

Pretty woeful from England to be honest and some absolute stinking individual performances, but if we go on and qualify from the group now - which we certainly bloody well should do - then this result will be a blessing in disguise if it means that Green and Wright-Phillips don't play any further part; the former is the third best 'keeper in the squad and the latter has zilch end product. The defence worries me; Terry wasted possession with shoddy pass after shoddy pass, King was physically and metaphorically lame and Carragher performed as poorly as he has done for Liverpool all season. At least the full backs had steady games.

I was annoyed that Carragher - having thrown a strop and retired some time back - was happy to be (undeservedly) selected at the first whiff of a World Cup chance and I also felt that Man City squad player SWP shouldn't be there either but hopefully Capello can redeem himself as he does not seem frightened to make big decisions, so.....Green should be dropped, Barry in for Lampard, Upson perhaps in for King/Carragher (he certainly couldn't do much worse) and - as we always seem to have to put square pegs in round holes - J Cole in for Milner. We need Joe Cole's craft and guile as we had precious little of either of those commodities yesterday.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by RoyalChicagoFC » 14 Jun 2010 00:34

Informed comment from over this side (no --seriously), with particular attention to Gerrard's early strike, here and here

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Man Friday » 14 Jun 2010 08:57

Ideal Difference being Green is shit. Never was any good. England would be better off with that old timer Pollitt in goal ;)

Who scored SIX goals against him in one match?

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Stranded » 14 Jun 2010 09:03

FiNeRaIn Why isn't Joe Hart number one?

Why replace one calamity with another?

England need a keeper than DOESNT make mistakes... I don't care about them pulling off world class saves, I'd just rather they had someone who kept the easy one's out, then its the defenses fault when we concede and not the keeper.


No such goalkeeper exists - that mistake could easily have been made by any goalkeeper in the world, and probably has at some point. If Green is Capello's number 1 then he will play on Friday.


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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Man Friday » 14 Jun 2010 09:04

The signs weren't good with Capello a month ago when he changed his policy and asked Carragher and Scholes if they would play. That sent out a message of desperation. Then there was the spat with the photographers. The man is losing rationale, calm thought - the most important ingredient of a successful manager. Most unRamsey-like.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Maguire » 14 Jun 2010 09:05

RoyalChicagoFC Informed comment from over this side (no --seriously), with particular attention to Gerrard's early strike, here and here


Jay DeMerit was late challenging Heskey, who one-timed the ball into Gerard's path for the 14-yard shot past Tim Howard.


lol, great one-time Emile, great one-time

I actually think it's pretty blinkered to complain about the "gaffe" that led to England's goal. It wasn't a gaffe in the sense that Green's was, and any goal you concede can be analysed to death until fault is found with someone.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Man Friday » 14 Jun 2010 09:08

Stranded
FiNeRaIn Why isn't Joe Hart number one?

Why replace one calamity with another?

England need a keeper than DOESNT make mistakes... I don't care about them pulling off world class saves, I'd just rather they had someone who kept the easy one's out, then its the defenses fault when we concede and not the keeper.


No such goalkeeper exists - that mistake could easily have been made by any goalkeeper in the world, and probably has at some point. If Green is Capello's number 1 then he will play on Friday.

It was nerves. If he was relaxed he would have saved it. The occasion got to him. We don't need a nervous 'keeper. We lack cool heads. That's why we always lose on penalties. That's why Lineker scored 48 goals for England.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Stranded » 14 Jun 2010 09:20

No it was just a mistake - mistakes happen - no more analysis is really needed - if that incident were to happen a thousand times in exactly the same situation 999 times that wouldn't have happened. Sadly it happened on Saturday to a decent goalkeeper and cost us a win (though we still should have scored a second).


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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by FiNeRaIn » 14 Jun 2010 09:25

Stranded No it was just a mistake - mistakes happen - no more analysis is really needed - if that incident were to happen a thousand times in exactly the same situation 999 times that wouldn't have happened. Sadly it happened on Saturday to a decent goalkeeper and cost us a win (though we still should have scored a second).


Bull this stopped being the case after the last few England keepers howlers - too coincidental to be a one off with England, doesn't happen to anyone else. Its a mental issue, simple.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Stranded » 14 Jun 2010 09:37

Yes - no other goalkeepers make mistakes ever, you're right how foolish of me to even consider that - you just notice the England one's more.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by FiNeRaIn » 14 Jun 2010 09:45

Stranded Yes - no other goalkeepers make mistakes ever, you're right how foolish of me to even consider that - you just notice the England one's more.


Of course they do, I didn't suggest that. However with England its always when its a pressured occasion.

When was the last time buffon cost Italy points? Casillas?

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Maguire » 14 Jun 2010 09:57

FiNeRaIn
Stranded Yes - no other goalkeepers make mistakes ever, you're right how foolish of me to even consider that - you just notice the England one's more.


Of course they do, I didn't suggest that. However with England its always when its a pressured occasion.

When was the last time buffon cost Italy points? Casillas?


Casillas doesn't play for Italy.


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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by FiNeRaIn » 14 Jun 2010 10:29

Maguire
FiNeRaIn
Stranded Yes - no other goalkeepers make mistakes ever, you're right how foolish of me to even consider that - you just notice the England one's more.


Of course they do, I didn't suggest that. However with England its always when its a pressured occasion.

When was the last time buffon cost Italy points? Casillas?


Casillas doesn't play for Italy.


I didn't say he did...

bad troll is bad..

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by papereyes » 14 Jun 2010 10:50

Ian Royal Did they have a great deal of choice?


He was behind Enke and someone else. Suicide and a serious injury meant they had him and a proper veteran to choose from.

I have some sympathy with England's position - for example Capello does not want to play Lampard and Gerrard, he'd rather play Lampard plus Barry or Hargreaves. Its just those two are injured and Carrick failed to impress. I'm sure if he had a goalscoring Heskey to pick, he would. There just isn't one.

The signs weren't good with Capello a month ago when he changed his policy and asked Carragher and Scholes if they would play. That sent out a message of desperation. Then there was the spat with the photographers. The man is losing rationale, calm thought - the most important ingredient of a successful manager. Most unRamsey-like.


There's something in this.

FWIW, someone - AP I think - said that the US spine played well. That's true and they did enough to really limit what England could do. I was genuinely impressed with Micheal Bradley - avery committed and hard working performance. Sometimes the best midfielder is the one who covers the hard yards and then does the simple things when he gets there.
EDIT: apparently this was 15,000 raises bat
Last edited by papereyes on 14 Jun 2010 11:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by soggy biscuit » 14 Jun 2010 10:59

LOL @ the front page of the New York Post

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by papereyes » 14 Jun 2010 11:02

Hoop Blah
Ian Royal Part of the problem early on is that good players are encouraged to win games solo and ignore teamplay, certainly with the weaker players.

When they're no longer a cut above the players they are against (attackers usually favoured over defenders at young ages) they don't know how to work as a team. Short simple passes are derided as sideways and movement simply isn't good enough.


Any evidence of that?

If you'd have said we favour athleticism over techniqual quality in many youngsters I might agree, although a lot less now than 20 years ago.

Countries tend to produce players that reflect the countries society, culture and pysche. Ours tends to produce players who are a bit more reserved and steady than the likes of the freethinking Dutch or more artisan Latin countries.


On the coaching course, the guy gave us a session about developing younger players. Athleticism is still favoured, players get picked for a size/shape and put into a position. People tend to utterly underrate movement and, somewhat importantly, off the ball work. He made the point that the best players actually play for 70-80 minutes - with the ball and without the ball. The FA are trying to get youngsters to play on smaller pitches, with smaller goals, with no fixed positions. We don't have a real history of Futsal or 5-a-side but that would help.

As a country, we're rather cynical of tactical nuance as well. You can see it in the discussions of Lampard/Gerrard - it (apparently) boils down to "One go, one stay". But a good defensive midfield player isn't just sitting there - it requires some level of organisation, reacting to when the ball breaks loose, predicting when to make the runs. Its also having the nous to play the right passes to keep possession, take the sting out of an attack, keep momentum up.

Watch Schweinsteiger last night - it's already been commented that he wasn't noticed :| - but he kept the ball moving, whether it be releasing Khedira or Ozul, or putting Lahm forwards. When the Aussies had the ball, he was closing it down before it got dangerous. With that type of game, you almost don't want to be noticed. You want to put in a decent shift and let the 5 attacking players ahead of you shine.

It took the Premiership years to get over 4-4-2 and the big man/little man partnership up front. Sadly, it seemed to replace it with 4-5-1 and 2 big 'Fridge' players in midfield and an athlete up front.

PS is artisan quite the word you're looking for? I do agree with the point made, by the way.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Hoop Blah » 14 Jun 2010 11:03

Must admit that I've been a bit disappointed in some of the things Capello has done in the last couple of months and I didn't like a couple of his choices in his squad. From the outside I think he's lost a bit of that edge he had during qualifiying as he seems to have slipped up a bit.

Not sure that would be the same feeling in the squad though.

As for Greens mistake, it was woeful, and as much as mistakes happen to the best of players to make one so elementry at that time is pretty poor. He set himself perfectly for it, but he just didn't get in line with the shot and was half a foot out of position.

There is no excuse for that.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by Hoop Blah » 14 Jun 2010 11:51

paps, we've had similar dicussions about the coaching and development of players on here many times, and I do think they (the FA) are trying to improve things.

The focus on small sided games and trying to improve the standard of coaching at all levels is the right way to go. I think it's a bit fight against the culture within the game and the society effects on the characters of our players though. Look at kids football, and through the academies and you see a lot of very gifted and technically excellent kids. Too often they don't seem to get the breaks of have enough balls to make the grade though. In some wasy it might not help that our game is so professional either.

As for artisan, it might not be quite the word I was looking for, but what I meant was they're more open to being less formal and ridgid, and thus create more flair and creativity in their society, and therefore their players.

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Re: England vs USA sponsored by US Nobbers [OFFICAL THREAD]

by RoyalChicagoFC » 14 Jun 2010 14:18

Maguire
RoyalChicagoFC Informed comment from over this side (no --seriously), with particular attention to Gerrard's early strike, here and here


Jay DeMerit was late challenging Heskey, who one-timed the ball into Gerard's path for the 14-yard shot past Tim Howard.


lol, great one-time Emile, great one-time

I actually think it's pretty blinkered to complain about the "gaffe" that led to England's goal. It wasn't a gaffe in the sense that Green's was, and any goal you concede can be analysed to death until fault is found with someone.

Nobody's seeking to deny England full credit for making the most of an opportunity gifted them, and indeed for looking very, very good in the effort

The fact remains that in the third minute of a match in the ultimate global competition, the U.S. showed themselves utterly unprepared to deal with the routine matter of a throw-in taken midway inside their own half

Perspective informs opinion, and from where I sit, that was pretty damned embarrassing to watch --and an accounting for it is, in my view, far from out of order

To put it into "real life" terms: It's one thing to fail final exam that a consensus of opinion rightly deems extremely challenging and then, when asked to explain afterward, to plead that it was too stern a test; neglecting to mention that one never bothered to revise beforehand is to speak something a good deal less than the whole truth

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