Terrible refereeing ruining football - the saga continues.

[Sun Tzu]

As I've highlighted, FFC isn't talking about the ref but an 'extra official' (presumably someone like the video umpire they have in top-class cricket).

Personally, though, I agree with you and DG - it has to be some system where the ref is given an 'instant' (or realistically sub-0.5 secs) notification - say by a buzzer on his belt - that a goal has been scored.

Thanks, I had indeed misread that.

Still don't like the concept. The ball is either in the goal or not. To make it an arbitrary 5 seconds to decide when anything could happen in that time and we've seen enough instances where the video evidence is not necessarily straight forward makes me anti. And when there is a better, simpler, more immediate, already trialled option i can't see why you wouldn't go with it !

[brendywendy]

Basically you play on until the ball goes out of play. If it's a goal, then it is awarded, if not, how ever the ball went out of play will be how the game continues.

in th emean time to opposition go down the other end and score. do you cancel that out if the original thing was a goal?


edit- must check if dirk has posted bvefore i do

[Royal Rother]

Worked in hockey (very well !)

Would be well worth an experiment, would require managers and players to really think about the way the game is played.

Would also free up linesmen to concentrate on key goal line decisions !!!!

Pointless idea, will never happen, and totally change football from how it should be played. All it will do is encourage the long ball game. Hoof up the pitch from one end to the other. Free kicks around the box, attackers filling up the goal mouth. Think about it.

Why would it do that ?

You might get some teams trying to play that way (like some do now). But in reality the better teams will realise it actually gives freedom to play all over the pitch. You will actually get a lot more space to play the game and it would benefit teams who play passing football.
Stick a big centre forward in the 6 yard box and pump long balls to him and 1. the keeper will use his advantage of reach and take the ball or 2. the defence will man mark and take the forward out of play.
I think it would be very interesting to run a tournament with top class players and intelligent coaches and see what they do with a 'no offside' game. I think people would be surprised at how it would work. I've seen youth football at U13 level on the continent played 9 a side with no offsides and it was very good. OK they have good coaches and better players but the format worked.

Good post.

It's interesting how many people become almost institutionalised in their thinking.

[Barry the bird boggler]

On the upside I note that Howard Webb has been retained but missed out on both QF and SF games, could he get the Final?

However I reckon he'll get the 3rd/4th play off game

[RoyalChicagoFC]

It's looking like either www. or Frank de Bleeckere ("Street Cinema") for the final, yup

[handbags_harris]

The only video evidence I would be happy to see is the FA taking additional action after a game. If the ref makes an error and books someone for a foul more serious than he saw, then I don't think it unreasonable for the decision to be revisited and maybe a ban handed out, similarly for diving and acting to get another man sent off.

So if it was simple technology indicating the ball across the line or not, is that acceptable?

[exileinleeds]

The only video evidence I would be happy to see is the FA taking additional action after a game. If the ref makes an error and books someone for a foul more serious than he saw, then I don't think it unreasonable for the decision to be revisited and maybe a ban handed out, similarly for diving and acting to get another man sent off.

So if it was simple technology indicating the ball across the line or not, is that acceptable?

No, not really. Not unless the FA are going to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. Can you imagine the cost to struggling clubs?
If it is such a major issue (it happens in how many games?) then why not have a goal line ref?

[cmonurz]

I don't know where the discussion has gone in previous pages, but surely the starting point for the use of this technology would be internationals, continental competitions, and top divisions?

There shouldn't (and wouldn't, I imagine) be a requirement for Luton Town to install the technology. Why the clamour for things to be the same right the way down the structure? Start at the top, and let it feed down over time (like enlarged squads and all-seater stadiums).

Only two courts at Wimbledon use Hawk-Eye, and there is no umpire review system in county cricket, yet it doesn't disturb the various echelons of play.

[Franchise FC]

So the England shot goes 'in' but instead of the ball being gathered by the keeper, it hits him and comes out. Eventually, the onrushing Rooney pops the ball in. If the whistle goes as soon as the original incident happens, England are penalised again. Don't stop the game, but give extra official 5 seconds to decide whether it was in. If he can't decide in 5 seconds - no goal.

Now the jobe's done.

How is putting the ref under pressure to make a decision on 5 seconds going to work ?

he's still got a game to referee and in the 5 seconds he won't get any more info than he had first time round.

So chances are he'll not concentrate on the action , not have anything to base a decision on other than what he saw first time and never give a goal anyway becasue there would be no basis on which to do it....

Agree 100% with Dirkers that an instant signal is the only way.

Which bit of 'extra official' was difficult to understand ?

[Franchise FC]

On the upside I note that Howard Webb has been retained but missed out on both QF and SF games, could he get the Final?

However I reckon he'll get the 3rd/4th play off game

Holland vs Germany (albeit West Germany) 1974 final - refereed by Englishman Jack Taylor

Some (possible) coincidence, eh ?

[Sun Tzu]

Which bit of 'extra official' was difficult to understand ?

What bit of 'I misread that' was difficult to understand ?

[Sun Tzu]

The only video evidence I would be happy to see is the FA taking additional action after a game. If the ref makes an error and books someone for a foul more serious than he saw, then I don't think it unreasonable for the decision to be revisited and maybe a ban handed out, similarly for diving and acting to get another man sent off.

So if it was simple technology indicating the ball across the line or not, is that acceptable?

No, not really. Not unless the FA are going to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. Can you imagine the cost to struggling clubs?
If it is such a major issue (it happens in how many games?) then why not have a goal line ref?

Don't think it need be very expensive. The ball manufacturers would cover the cost of the chip in the ball and I can't see the sensors, transmitters and receivers would be very costly.

As for a 'goal line ref', we already have those.

If you wanted more of them then who is going to pay for them ? They would (I suspect) be much more expensive than the technology ( 2 extra officials at every game, say £500 a piece in fees / expenses). That's 23 grand for home league games in a season....

Plus you then need to work out how they officiate and where they stand to ensure a perfect view of any incident.

[Dirk Gently]

The only video evidence I would be happy to see is the FA taking additional action after a game. If the ref makes an error and books someone for a foul more serious than he saw, then I don't think it unreasonable for the decision to be revisited and maybe a ban handed out, similarly for diving and acting to get another man sent off.

So if it was simple technology indicating the ball across the line or not, is that acceptable?

No, not really. Not unless the FA are going to put their hand in their pocket and pay for it. Can you imagine the cost to struggling clubs?
If it is such a major issue (it happens in how many games?) then why not have a goal line ref?

In every competition where this would be relevant, there is a lucrative TV deal which could fund it.

[Hoop Blah]

In every competition where this would be relevant, there is a lucrative TV deal which could fund it.

That's still money that is currently being spent elsewhere though (usually on players wages!) and cricket has shown that relying on broadcasters to provide/support/pay for the technology just doesn't work.

I do think any system needs to be implemented pretty much across the board though. It would be a shame to create a set of elite competitions as part of the beauty of the game is that it maintains the same set of rules etc from top to bottom. That might not be realistic, but I think it's right that FIFA should try to keep it that way.

I doubt the cost of the technology they tested at Hogwood would be too much to prevent it coming in to the professional game though.

[Sun Tzu]

I do think any system needs to be implemented pretty much across the board though. It would be a shame to create a set of elite competitions as part of the beauty of the game is that it maintains the same set of rules etc from top to bottom. That might not be realistic, but I think it's right that FIFA should try to keep it that way.

It's an interesting arguement from FIFA that means they can avoid progress while pretending to be 'fair'.

But it hardly stands up to examination.

At the simplest of levels not all football matches have qualified linesmen, in fact not all have qualified referees ! So there's a massive difference already between the elite and the grassroots in terms of laws and how they are applied.

The rules are also interpreted very differently between the top end and the bottom.

Age group football also means anyone under 12 plays a very different game to the top of the pyramid.

[Geekins]

Howard Webb to ref the WC Final.

[Sun Tzu]

Howard Webb to ref the WC Final.

But he's useless......

[Jerry St Clair]

LOL

Many of us witnessed Howard Webb's first foray into league refereeing when he took charge of a top of the table clash between Reading and Walsall at the Bescot about 10 years ago. He was shite and Pardew commented afterwards that "he wasn't up to such a big occasion".

[Sarah Star]

He's come a long way since then... unlike Walsall.

[RoyalChicagoFC]

Also reffed the Rzzz'z first Premiership match to be televised live to points the globe over

Didn't do any harm on that occasion to the cause that we all hold dear