VAR

[Franchise FC]

In rugby, yes. Play continues, until a break, and the TMO will instruct the referee that he may want to check something. Everything that happens in that time is 'live' up until the point that it isn't.

Fans need to be a bit less precious about their 'beautiful game'. VAR got it right last night. That's better than the Swiss being denied a clear penalty because 'flow'.

The only bit of that I'd question is the use of the word 'clear'.

Not sure I'd describe that as anything other than 'soft' - might even use 'extremely'

No problem with it being given, but this is a taste of what's to come. Soft penalties will be the order of the day, although it may make some of the defenders learn how to defend within the laws rather than their previous tactics.

Ironically, Van Dyke is a very good example of someone who rarely seems to resort to the pulling, tugging, cuddling stuff. Maybe other defenders can learn a thing or two from him.

Fair enough - I think 'soft penalty' is a term that is starting to get overused. A foul is a foul, whether it's a clip or a player is completely taken out. It is referees' difficulty in giving 'soft' fouls as penalties that as led to attackers diving around - I'm hoping VAR resolves both next season.

The biggest improvement on VAR has to be around process - I still think replays should be shown on screens, so it is clear on what the referee is basing his decision.

Agreed with the video being shown. The only problem is that there are a number of incidents where slow motion still doesn't make things clear. We could be left with a contentious decision and the crowd joining in - could be fun

[Sanguine]

The only bit of that I'd question is the use of the word 'clear'.

Not sure I'd describe that as anything other than 'soft' - might even use 'extremely'

No problem with it being given, but this is a taste of what's to come. Soft penalties will be the order of the day, although it may make some of the defenders learn how to defend within the laws rather than their previous tactics.

Ironically, Van Dyke is a very good example of someone who rarely seems to resort to the pulling, tugging, cuddling stuff. Maybe other defenders can learn a thing or two from him.

Fair enough - I think 'soft penalty' is a term that is starting to get overused. A foul is a foul, whether it's a clip or a player is completely taken out. It is referees' difficulty in giving 'soft' fouls as penalties that as led to attackers diving around - I'm hoping VAR resolves both next season.

The biggest improvement on VAR has to be around process - I still think replays should be shown on screens, so it is clear on what the referee is basing his decision.

Agreed with the video being shown. The only problem is that there are a number of incidents where slow motion still doesn't make things clear. We could be left with a contentious decision and the crowd joining in - could be fun

If anything I think the video being shown, and any crowd reaction would remind referees that decisions should be overturned only on clear and obvious evidence.

[Whore Jackie]

The biggest improvement on VAR has to be around process - I still think replays should be shown on screens, so it is clear on what the referee is basing his decision.

This was announced yesterday:

Premier League clubs were today provided with an update on plans for the introduction of Video Assistant Referees (VAR) in the competition next season.

This included details on in-stadium communications, in particular when there is a clear delay to a match because of VAR, and when refereeing decisions are over-turned due to the intervention of VAR.

The Premier League has created graphics which will be displayed on giant screens to explain any VAR-related delay to a match, and any overturned decision.

Additionally, if the VAR believes there is a definitive video clip which helps explain an overturned decision, it will be broadcast on giant screens.

Also, the Premier League is investigating the possibility of messages and video clips being viewed on handheld devices via an app.

For clubs who do not have giant screens in their stadium, VAR communications will be made via a combination of PA announcements and messages on scoreboards.

[Stranded]

Think yesterday showed exactly where VAR will be good. There was a foul on the Swiss player but one that the ref couldn't see, if he had seen it it would be a free kick anywhere on the pitch so should be a penalty.

Regarding the delay and the game continuing, this is just something we will need to get used to - what should happen and the PL seem to be on the move that way is as soon as something is going to be reviewed a VAR Pending message appears on the screen. The ref can even initiate it by requesting the review and the VAR Ref can immediately get the message up on screen. You can then watch the match knowing that things may get pulled back.

Last night, we have a penalty for Portugal become one for Switzerland and in Italy I know there have been at least 2 goals that were turned into penalties at the other end. However, the really interesting one will be:

Team A attacks - potential foul in the box that ref is unsure on/doesn't spot so VAR looks at. Meanwhile, Team B attacks but attack is stopped and Team A launch a counter attack that leads to a goal. Ball stays in play from the moment of the "penalty".

What would happen here? Would Team A's goal be disallowed as play brought back for the penalty or would it essentially be treated as an advantage to them and the goal stands?

[Sanguine]

Think yesterday showed exactly where VAR will be good. There was a foul on the Swiss player but one that the ref couldn't see, if he had seen it it would be a free kick anywhere on the pitch so should be a penalty.

Regarding the delay and the game continuing, this is just something we will need to get used to - what should happen and the PL seem to be on the move that way is as soon as something is going to be reviewed a VAR Pending message appears on the screen. The ref can even initiate it by requesting the review and the VAR Ref can immediately get the message up on screen. You can then watch the match knowing that things may get pulled back.

Last night, we have a penalty for Portugal become one for Switzerland and in Italy I know there have been at least 2 goals that were turned into penalties at the other end. However, the really interesting one will be:

Team A attacks - potential foul in the box that ref is unsure on/doesn't spot so VAR looks at. Meanwhile, Team B attacks but attack is stopped and Team A launch a counter attack that leads to a goal. Ball stays in play from the moment of the "penalty".

What would happen here? Would Team A's goal be disallowed as play brought back for the penalty or would it essentially be treated as an advantage to them and the goal stands?

The former, I would guess. Advantage is an in-play decision by the referee, not one that can be inferred afterward. He doesn't 'play advantage' whilst VAR is pending. Team A's goal stands if no penalty, and is chalked off if a penalty is given. That being said, VAR needs to be better than taking two attacks on goal to resolve.

[Stranded]

Think yesterday showed exactly where VAR will be good. There was a foul on the Swiss player but one that the ref couldn't see, if he had seen it it would be a free kick anywhere on the pitch so should be a penalty.

Regarding the delay and the game continuing, this is just something we will need to get used to - what should happen and the PL seem to be on the move that way is as soon as something is going to be reviewed a VAR Pending message appears on the screen. The ref can even initiate it by requesting the review and the VAR Ref can immediately get the message up on screen. You can then watch the match knowing that things may get pulled back.

Last night, we have a penalty for Portugal become one for Switzerland and in Italy I know there have been at least 2 goals that were turned into penalties at the other end. However, the really interesting one will be:

Team A attacks - potential foul in the box that ref is unsure on/doesn't spot so VAR looks at. Meanwhile, Team B attacks but attack is stopped and Team A launch a counter attack that leads to a goal. Ball stays in play from the moment of the "penalty".

What would happen here? Would Team A's goal be disallowed as play brought back for the penalty or would it essentially be treated as an advantage to them and the goal stands?

The former, I would guess. Advantage is an in-play decision by the referee, not one that can be inferred afterward. He doesn't 'play advantage' whilst VAR is pending. Team A's goal stands if no penalty, and is chalked off if a penalty is given. That being said, VAR needs to be better than taking two attacks on goal to resolve.

It would be quicker to resolve that 2 attacks but currently the rules state that the game must be stopped for the VAR review, as the ref needs to go off the pitch to review.

[Sanguine]

Think yesterday showed exactly where VAR will be good. There was a foul on the Swiss player but one that the ref couldn't see, if he had seen it it would be a free kick anywhere on the pitch so should be a penalty.

Regarding the delay and the game continuing, this is just something we will need to get used to - what should happen and the PL seem to be on the move that way is as soon as something is going to be reviewed a VAR Pending message appears on the screen. The ref can even initiate it by requesting the review and the VAR Ref can immediately get the message up on screen. You can then watch the match knowing that things may get pulled back.

Last night, we have a penalty for Portugal become one for Switzerland and in Italy I know there have been at least 2 goals that were turned into penalties at the other end. However, the really interesting one will be:

Team A attacks - potential foul in the box that ref is unsure on/doesn't spot so VAR looks at. Meanwhile, Team B attacks but attack is stopped and Team A launch a counter attack that leads to a goal. Ball stays in play from the moment of the "penalty".

What would happen here? Would Team A's goal be disallowed as play brought back for the penalty or would it essentially be treated as an advantage to them and the goal stands?

The former, I would guess. Advantage is an in-play decision by the referee, not one that can be inferred afterward. He doesn't 'play advantage' whilst VAR is pending. Team A's goal stands if no penalty, and is chalked off if a penalty is given. That being said, VAR needs to be better than taking two attacks on goal to resolve.

It would be quicker to resolve that 2 attacks but currently the rules state that the game must be stopped for the VAR review, as the ref needs to go off the pitch to review.

In which case in your example the game is stopped before the second attack and the goal. The key to this all working correctly is VAR officials only calling for a review in the case of clear and obvious errors, which hasn't always been the case. I cite it a lot, but again TMO works well here - whilst the referee remains in charge, the TMO essentially recommends a course of action. On the odd occasion we've seen Nigel Evans or Romain Poite argue a different point of view but generally the TMO highlights a clear infringement (or not) and a clear course of action.

How VAR shouldn't be used is as a tool for referees to have another look at things, because they (or the VAR officials) aren't sure. In that case, there should be no review.

[John Smith]

Fans need to be a bit less precious about their 'beautiful game'. VAR got it right last night.

No they don't. No it didn't. Your opinion is exactly what is wrong with modern football and you are a disgrace.

[Sanguine]

Fans need to be a bit less precious about their 'beautiful game'. VAR got it right last night.

No they don't. No it didn't. Your opinion is exactly what is wrong with modern football and you are a disgrace.

Oh, that John Smith is back.
Happy Thursday pal.

[John Smith]

Fans need to be a bit less precious about their 'beautiful game'. VAR got it right last night.

No they don't. No it didn't. Your opinion is exactly what is wrong with modern football and you are a disgrace.

Oh, that John Smith is back.
Happy Thursday pal.

Have you been away for six months?

[Sanguine]

No they don't. No it didn't. Your opinion is exactly what is wrong with modern football and you are a disgrace.

Oh, that John Smith is back.
Happy Thursday pal.

Have you been away for six months?

I thought you had. You did actual normal discussion a couple of weeks ago.

[Stranded]

The former, I would guess. Advantage is an in-play decision by the referee, not one that can be inferred afterward. He doesn't 'play advantage' whilst VAR is pending. Team A's goal stands if no penalty, and is chalked off if a penalty is given. That being said, VAR needs to be better than taking two attacks on goal to resolve.

It would be quicker to resolve that 2 attacks but currently the rules state that the game must be stopped for the VAR review, as the ref needs to go off the pitch to review.

In which case in your example the game is stopped before the second attack and the goal. The key to this all working correctly is VAR officials only calling for a review in the case of clear and obvious errors, which hasn't always been the case. I cite it a lot, but again TMO works well here - whilst the referee remains in charge, the TMO essentially recommends a course of action. On the odd occasion we've seen Nigel Evans or Romain Poite argue a different point of view but generally the TMO highlights a clear infringement (or not) and a clear course of action.

How VAR shouldn't be used is as a tool for referees to have another look at things, because they (or the VAR officials) aren't sure. In that case, there should be no review.

Well it wouldn't as the ball never goes out of play in my example. VAR is essentially working as you describe but could be done better - take last night as example - one the ref had blown for the Portugal penalty, the ref was told that he may have missed something at the other end. The decision is still with the ref as he goes off to review the footage. If he doesn't believe that that was a foul last night, he could have stuck with the Portugese penalty.

The foot being clipped by the defender would have been near impossible to see at full speed and there are still people stating that it was a stupid decision as he just tripped over his own feet, so it was the perfect case for a review. I agree it shouldn't be used as a failsafe and I believe it is not how they intend it to be used and last night was actually a good example of how it should be.

[Hoop Blah]

From the limited view I got it certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error as it looked debatable whether it was a foul.

Granted, i paid very little attention to the two replays I saw as I was walking past the telly so I may be wrong.

[Sanguine]

Well well. The exception that proves the rule, hopefully. VAR has had a nightmare at the Women's World Cup. Scotland were 3-0 up with 20 minutes to go, but Argentina pegged them back to 3-2, before winning a penalty in the final minute of the game, which the Scottish keeper saved.

And then VAR got involved to decide that she had come off the line before the kick was taken.



Nothing 'clear and obvious' about that. Argentina scored from the retake and the draw sends Scotland out. Deary me.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Fukking lol at that being classed as coming off the line

[Zip]

I reckon VAR was right with the retaking of the penalty but how on earth the ref added on only five minutes of injury time was beyond me.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Always thought you should be able to take one good step off the line as it is almost impossible to dive sideways if you don't

[URZZZZ]

Was against VAR before tonight but open to improvements in the system. But after tonight, I'm shocked anyone can defend it. So many errors in that 3rd goal, Scotland's sub problem, the retake of the penalty was ludicrous and the referee failing to add any injury time when it nearly took 10 minutes. VAR is the collapse of an already rapidly declining game IMO unless they fix it very quickly

[Sanguine]

Was against VAR before tonight but open to improvements in the system. But after tonight, I'm shocked anyone can defend it. So many errors in that 3rd goal, Scotland's sub problem, the retake of the penalty was ludicrous and the referee failing to add any injury time when it nearly took 10 minutes. VAR is the collapse of an already rapidly declining game IMO unless they fix it very quickly

Completely agree that this was a bad night for the tech, or moreover the way it was used, but that last sentence is laughable.

[Royal Rother]

They are getting into dangerous territory now.

Imagine a WC Final decided by penalty shoot out.

Strike, scored, Team A celebrates and the fans go wild. Uh oh, an attacker encroached by 6 inches. Retake required.
Strike, saved, Team B go wild, but uh oh, the keeper was off the line by 2 inches. Retake required. Etc. Etc. It could go on for bloody hours!

Eventually the fans would just stop getting involved and celebrating as much - football does bring about major swings in emotions, but it needs the freedom and space for those emotional reactions after each significant mini event within the game, to fully engage the fans. Letting go of emotions at a goal only to have it disallowed is one of the most terrible things in life to go through after death and divorce! People hate the feeling of utter humiliation that goes with screaming and celebrating only to have to wind it in after 20 seconds.... even worse when everyone else spotted the flag before you.... we’ve all been there I’m sure. But in reality, that’s been a bit of a rarity. Until now.

If the inclination to celebrate the moment of a goal like a complete mental is reduced, which it undoubtedly will be in the current situation, then it WILL have an impact on fans and people WILL stop engaging in the same way and some WILL stop going / watching.

It won’t mean the total collapse of the game but the negative impact would be felt in so many ways. They really can’t afford to fcuk this up but that is exactly what they are doing and I think it is pretty amazing to witness it. Every game there seems to be another way to piss about with people’s emotions unearthed.

It may take a while for the dissatisfaction / outrage to build but somewhere along the line this is going to get really ugly for football because the negative impact of fcuking with people’s emotions will be considerable.