Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Mr Angry]

It’s beginning to look like we might genuinely be seeing the slow death of a big football club.

Two weeks ago it looked like entry to SPL was the only hurdle left, and a low one at that. Now SFL entry looks shaky, and the police are investigating the takeover. What a shambles. I have no great love for Rangers but can’t help feel a bit of sadness for the supporters of a club with a long history, not because their club is folding, but the manner in which it is doing so.

Pedant alert on:

They are investigating the previous takeover, not the current one.

Pedant alert off:

[Ian Royal]

They should apply to go into the English non league

7 or 8 years of English lower league to get to the prem > 3 years to get back to the same sh*t SPL they were in before

Think others have posted here before to say that they wouldn't be allowed and I can't see UEFA/SFA letting that happen without a massive massive fight.

Ah fair enough. Would always be the worry that it could open the door for Celtic to come in too, which I never ever want to happen.

I can't see them making it that far starting from the bottom either.

[watfordroyal]

It’s beginning to look like we might genuinely be seeing the slow death of a big football club.

Two weeks ago it looked like entry to SPL was the only hurdle left, and a low one at that. Now SFL entry looks shaky, and the police are investigating the takeover. What a shambles. I have no great love for Rangers but can’t help feel a bit of sadness for the supporters of a club with a long history, not because their club is folding, but the manner in which it is doing so.

Pedant alert on:

They are investigating the previous takeover, not the current one.

Pedant alert off:

According to Brown the new takeover is smelling dodgy too, questioning who owns the deeds after "alarming" talks with Green!

[cmonurz]

I don’t really understand all this, to be honest.

Once all this has settled down – say Rangers are in Scottish Division 3 – what would The Rangers FC be ‘worth’ ?

[Flyingkiwi]

I'd really like to hear a Rangers fan perspective on everything that has happened to the club, what will or should happen in the future and what average supporters think of the players that are walking out/Green's attitude.

If only there was a Rangers fan that posted.

[weybridgewanderer]

so what do you want a rangers fan to say?

i am devastated at the state my club is in

I feel powerless to do anything

Its sad and disappointing the players are chosing to walk away from the club so that they can get larger signing on fees at new clubs as they will have no transfer fee to pay. That said, it does not come as a surprise as we don't even know if we will be playing football next season.

What is even more disappointing is "the Big tax case" which the future of the club was resting on still has not been decided so has not directly affected the current situation. The reason we are in this mess is the guy that took over a year ago stopped paying tax and NI, and bought the club with borrowed money that he had no intention of paying back either.

What more do you want to know?

[soggy biscuit]

Its sad and disappointing the players are chosing to walk away from the club so that they can get larger signing on fees at new clubs

Yeah that's definitely the reason why

[SpaceCruiser]

Thought it was because they didn't want to play in the basement division?

[blindedbythelights]

The reason we are in this mess is the guy that took over a year ago stopped paying tax and NI,

lolwut Rangers have been doging their tax bill for years m8

[weybridgewanderer]

Our historic tax bills are the subject of appeals

The reason for the mess we are in is that Whyte did not pay tax or NI last season and he borrowed money to buy the club

I did say no decision has been made yet on to the big tax case so it did not affect the adminstration of the club.

Rangers could still win the big tax case, but I suspect in that case there would be no winner, rangers would owe something but not what HMRC said they owed.

Many companies and clubs use tax avoidance schemes wich is what rangers did for years, its not illegal.

Not paying the revenue PAYE tax and NI after you have deducted it from your employees on the other hand....

And yes, the players are chosing not to move to "sevco" coz they will get more money for themselves as there would be no transfer fee if they joined sevco and then sevco sold them for a fee.

Lets be honest, "sevco" could not have afforded to pay them in Div 1 or Div 3 or if we are not playing so they would have been sold anyway

If they would have been sold anyway, what other reason would they have for leaving without transferring over?

[cmonurz]

Our historic tax bills are the subject of appeals

You mean you don't owe the HMRC the money?

[weybridgewanderer]

HMRC say we owe it, the club disputes it

that decision has been referred to and heard in court, a first tier tax tribunal. The decision has stillnot been announced.

We used a perfectly legal tax avoidance scheme, used by many other clubs and businesses, called Employee Benefit trusts

There is a dispute that we did not adminsister the scheme properly. rangers belive ethey did and dispute the bill HMRC presented them with,

This historic EBT tax case is not the reason we were put into administration

[weybridgewanderer]

oh, and for what its worth, I do not believe rangers will play football next season.

Spartans and Cove Rangers, who have been trying to get into the SFL for years will appeal any decision that allows sevco in

Right now I believe the club is dead

[blindedbythelights]

HMRC say we owe it, the club disputes it

oh my days, I guess this is the same head in sand mentality that had rangers fans telling us a week ago they'd never be kicked out of the SPL coz the paupers couldnt afford to not have a coupla thousand drunk huns rocking up twice a season

nonsense club, good riddance, fuck off

[Tony Le Mesmer]

what do you want then Weybridge? A big hug, say sorry and then go back to spending millions on players at the tax payers expense whilst cheating everyone else? You support a football club thats gone tits up. Of course there is nothing you can do, but thats tough im afraid. If Rangers were now winning trophy after trophy on money you didnt have, youd be celebrating with all the other fans without a thought for everyone else left behind paying their way. Not that any other club would be different, but fans dont really care who owns their club these days, so long as they are winning. They only point the finger when its too late. When it goes wrong you take it on the chin and support whatever is left of the club with the hope of getting back to where you were, and maybe you will come back better for it. Just like Napoli did, for example, when they went to the wall. Follow follow.

[floyd__streete]

oh, and for what its worth, I do not believe rangers will play football next season.

Spartans and Cove Rangers, who have been trying to get into the SFL for years will appeal any decision that allows sevco in

Right now I believe the club is dead

Interestingly, the SFL announced at the weekend plans for promotion/relegation from SFL Div 3. How convenient that should be mooted after 100+ years of no such concept! I wouldn't be surprised if any ambitious clubs outside of the SFL have been offered this olive branch in the future provided they do not opposed 'Rangers 2012 Ltd' entering SFL Div 3 in 2012/13.

A club the size of Rangers with all the potential for lovely lucre that comes with them not existing next season? Behave.

[weybridgewanderer]

what do you want then Weybridge? A big hug, say sorry and then go back to spending millions on players at the tax payers expense whilst cheating everyone else? You support a football club thats gone tits up. Of course there is nothing you can do, but thats tough im afraid. If Rangers were now winning trophy after trophy on money you didnt have, youd be celebrating with all the other fans without a thought for everyone else left behind paying their way. Not that any other club would be different, but fans dont really care who owns their club these days, so long as they are winning. They only point the finger when its too late. When it goes wrong you take it on the chin and support whatever is left of the club with the hope of getting back to where you were, and maybe you will come back better for it. Just like Napoli did, for example, when they went to the wall. Follow follow.

someone posted to ask what a rangers fan thinks, so I posted what I think.

I said I am devastated, just as many Reading fans were when the were about to merge with oxford and become Thames Valley FC or whatever

I am not looking for sympathy, right now I think we are going the way of 3rd Lanark

[weybridgewanderer]

Never mind the SPL, Div 1 or Div 3, Green hasn't even applied for a football licence, deadline is friday

[Mr Angry]

I rather hoped that thus fate would behalf Pompey, but if its Rangers, so be it.

Football HAS to realise that the economics of the madhouse simply cannot go on without any jeopardy to the clubs involved in what is frankly, cheating.

If it means a club of the size, history and standing of Rangers going bust to at least make owners in the future think twice about spending money they don't have and have no intention of ever paying back, or arrogantly believing that they can avoid paying tax or NI, to finance their own bloated egos and the clamour of their fans for instant and never ending success, then thats what needs to happen.

[Gordons Cumming]

I rather hoped that thus fate would behalf Pompey, but if its Rangers, so be it.

Football HAS to realise that the economics of the madhouse simply cannot go on without any jeopardy to the clubs involved in what is frankly, cheating.

If it means a club of the size, history and standing of Rangers going bust to at least make owners in the future think twice about spending money they don't have and have no intention of ever paying back, or arrogantly believing that they can avoid paying tax or NI, to finance their own bloated egos and the clamour of their fans for instant and never ending success, then thats what needs to happen.

Agreed.