LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

[Sanguine]

I think that final comment inadvertently runs down both managers – to the extent that Mourinho has at times had his Chelsea team playing very fluid attacking football this season; and that there is a lot more to Rodgers as a manager than a Keegan-like attacking style..

It may look nicer on the eye going forward, but its still Keegan-esque in the conceeding stakes though

As a fan i'm just enjoying Suarez's moment. Just utter class

My point re Keegan was a little different – Newcastle played an almost reckless attacking game, and as a result conceded a lot of goals.

Rodgers is much more tactically astute – as alluded to by Gerrard he makes little tweaks each game (see Sterling in a central role at United) that seem to make the difference in front of goal, but they concede a lot of needless goals down to individual errors (Toure against WBA, Skrtel’s nightmare at Hull, defence going missing at Cardiff.

You could argue that Rodger’s focus on attack leads to a weaker defence, but essentially Keegan’s team conceded because of their attacking game, Rodgers’ Liverpool concede because the defenders are shit.

[No Fixed Abode]

Crickey, Liverpool v Chelsea.........let's hope it's a draw because if either lose it'll be the ref's fault.

Well, Chris Foy had another 'mare over the weekend didn't he....

[stealthpapes]

It's all if's but's and maybe's though as far as Rodgers' time here was concerned.

I was among the most vocal in saying he should have been given more time and I simply don't understand the hatred that some seem to have for him. However as much as you can have nothing but admiration for what he's gone on to do since his time here I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that without sacking him neither party would have had the relative success they subsequently have. (It shouldn't be forgotten that as a club we're still in a better position than we were when he left)

I think it needed the setback and ego dent of the sacking and the opportunity out of the game in order for him to step back and understand why it didn't work here. Sure he had the good fortune to be given a way back in at a club that was a perfect fit for how he wanted to play but he made the most of that good fortune and to say he just inherited Martinez's team is utter nonsense.

His current Liverpool side really are a great side to watch with young English talent being given an opportunity to flourish amongst more experienced top level players.

Anyone knocking him for his work over the last 3-4 seasons really just comes across as sad and bitter which is a shame as he contributed a lot to this club long before he bcame the manager. That said I'm not sure sacking him was the disastrous decision i thought it might have been at the time or some are saying now. I just don't think he was mature enough at the time to be able to execute the brief he was trying to execute.

Yes.

[dizzynewheights]

History starting to rewrite itself as more and more Reading FC fans start to claim they never agreed with the Rodgers sacking

[stealthpapes]

What does puzzle me is that someone, someone ITK if memory served, promised that The Real Rodgers Story would eventually emerge.

Thus far, it hasn't.

[southbank1871]

Was he unashamedly ITK and proud of it? If so, he's not around any more.

[dizzynewheights]

The story I heard is that Madejski put a 3 man committee together to handle the appointment with the express instructions to find the right man for the job and (importantly apparently) to be in absolute agreement that the man they appointed was the right one - presumably so they could all be held accountable if it went wrong, SJM didn't want anyone on the 'told you so' flex.

I forget who was on the committee, except Howe was certainly one.

Two of them, I forget which one, maybe Howe, were in agreement that Rodgers was absolutely the right man for job, the other - maybe-Howe, was vehemently opposed to his appointment - presumably due to some issue from his last stint at the club.

When the problem was presented to Madejski he went off the handle at all 3 telling them he didn't want to hear about their squabbling and they were to go away and come back with an agreement on the right man.

The maybe-Howe relented and endorsed the appointment to keep the peace.

Maybe-Howe didn't forget his vendetta however and when things went pear shaped and the fans turned he was behind the scenes sharpening the long knives and making sure Rodgers was shown the door (this is perhaps one of the few parts of the story that makes sense as the sacking was very un-Reading IMO).



disclaimer

I heard this story a long, long time ago and may have made much of it up
The story was told to me by someone who thought himself ITK
I really have no idea if Howe was in the pro/anti camp
I do not believe this story

[Schards#2]

History starting to rewrite itself as more and more Reading FC fans start to claim they never agreed with the Rodgers sacking

Not over here. Nothing he has done or ever will do at other clubs subsequently will alter the fact that he was taking Reading down at a time when relegation to League One would have been catastrophic.

That said, I don't dislike Rodgers and have huge respect for the way he responded to beating the club that sacked him in a play off final.

[Maguire]

It was defo Howe that was instrumental in getting rid of Rodgers, who he didn't like and had it in for.

Regardless of whatever Rodgers has gone on to do (and he's done better than anyone could have predicted), or what Readign went on to do, sacking him was premature.

[Maguire]

Just for the record there are only 6 other teams with a better defensive record

"Only" 6? There are only 19 other teams in the league!

If you want to win the title then you need to elimin8 the sort of calamitous defending Liverpool routinely roll out. Remember that much of their defensive solidity will come from controlling the football or it being in the back of the opponents net all the time. The actual back four are useless.

Cardiff's second goal for example, deary me.

This all said, Liverpool have easily been the best team to watch in the league this year and I tuned in again on Saturday to see another classic.

[Ouroboros]

I do not believe this story

[Hoop Blah]

History starting to rewrite itself as more and more Reading FC fans start to claim they never agreed with the Rodgers sacking

Not over here. Nothing he has done or ever will do at other clubs subsequently will alter the fact that he was taking Reading down at a time when relegation to League One would have been catastrophic.

That said, I don't dislike Rodgers and have huge respect for the way he responded to beating the club that sacked him in a play off final.

Obviously nobody knows if we would've been relegated or gone on a Sunderland/Palace'esque run and made the play offs but for my money we bottled it and potentially set ourselves back 2 seasons in doing so.

[Victor Meldrew]

Just for the record there are only 6 other teams with a better defensive record

"Only" 6? There are only 19 other teams in the league!

If you want to win the title then you need to elimin8 the sort of calamitous defending Liverpool routinely roll out. Remember that much of their defensive solidity will come from controlling the football or it being in the back of the opponents net all the time. The actual back four are useless.

Cardiff's second goal for example, deary me.

This all said, Liverpool have easily been the best team to watch in the league this year and I tuned in again on Saturday to see another classic.

I think you missed the point-it's not as if they are 15th or 16th in the defensive stakes they are in the equivalent of where Man Utd are.
The original aim of football was , and is, to score goals, but in the recent past (as in most sports) defences win titles and cups (dreary old Chelsea and Inter Milan) so it is good to see a side as a throwback and they are indeed bringing a lot of pleasure to those that watch them.

[Ian Royal]

History starting to rewrite itself as more and more Reading FC fans start to claim they never agreed with the Rodgers sacking

Not over here. Nothing he has done or ever will do at other clubs subsequently will alter the fact that he was taking Reading down at a time when relegation to League One would have been catastrophic.

That said, I don't dislike Rodgers and have huge respect for the way he responded to beating the club that sacked him in a play off final.

Obviously nobody knows if we would've been relegated or gone on a Sunderland/Palace'esque run and made the play offs but for my money we bottled it and potentially set ourselves back 2 seasons in doing so.

I don't see how anyone can argue that he didn't underperform and put his own job at risk in the process. As you say, we'll never know how it would have turned out. There's every chance that at least part of his success elsewhere came from the lessons he learnt here.

It's all well and good judging the decision with hindsight, but at the time, he was a manager who talked a big game, but hadn't actually achieved much in the way of success in that role. He'd received plenty in transfer sales, but he also spent plenty and not particularly well. And he'd led a side that had missed out in the play offs and been one of the three main contenders for automatics most of the season to looking over its shoulder towards the bottom of the table when his brief had been to rebuild and gain promotion. With that the case and limited signs of a turnaround on the pitch, when you piss off the club's senior management and lets not forget lots of the fans, then it's no surprise you get the old heave ho.

And it's not like his replacement did a bad job either! We're more Championship and above established than ever before. We're a bigger name than ever before.

[winchester_royal]

That is all true IR, but just because a manager is under-performing at the time that does not necessarily mean that sacking him was the right option. We took a chance on a younger manager to replace one of our very best of all time, and we did so with a long term vision in mind. We were struggling, but there were signs of progress, and sacking him was not the only option available to us. Indeed when I first said on here that I'd heard he'd been sacked I was met with derision and disbelief (Hi Floyd ).

At the end of the day, we're back pretty much where we were 5 years ago, whereas he is one of the hottest young managerial properties in Europe. We should have been more patient, we should have let him learn on the job, and our failure to do so may well be looked back on in 25 years as being as daft as St Mirren's decision to sack SAF. Just like younger, promising players need to be given time and be allowed to make mistakes to develop, so do young managers.

[Ian Royal]

But you are writing a fiction there. There is no guarantee we wouldn't have been relegated. Or that he'd have successfully rebuilt the squad, or got us promotion. Or if he did that he'd have kept us up. We could be in a worse position had we not sacked him. It's all just speculation.

I think it's fair to say he certainly wasn't showing any signs of performing as well as Brian did in that first half season, so we wouldn't have enjoyed an FA Cup QF and victory over Liverpool. It was clear from the struggle he had that to get what he wanted a lot more changes were required as it was backward steps that led to our success, so I'd question if he'd have taken us to the Play Off Final the next season, assuming he kept us up.

It's certainly a decision we're left wondering what might have been. But in any decision where results at the time weren't meeting even reasonable expectations and soon after rose to meet and possibly exceed those expectations, I don't see how people can sit there and criticise the club for making that difficult decision.

As a manager you simply have to understand the expectations on you and the resources your club is prepared to provide you to work with. It seems fairly clear he got both of those things wrong. The vast majority of clubs would have binned him, if not at that point, then a little before or after.

[winchester_royal]

I'm not sure I wrote any of that..

McDermott had a fantastic short term effect. We played some great stuff in the second half of that season, and the rest is history. There's no denying that in the 18 months following the decision to sack BR we were better off than we would otherwise have been, but does that make it the right decision? Of course there's no definitive answer to that question, and it will depend on your view of the direction the team was going in at that time. Personally I think we'd have picked up in the second half of the season regardless. The platform that was laid at the start of the season by BR, in terms of the integration of some younger players and the technical work, and that stood us in good stead. Obviously BMc's more pragmatic approach enabled us to perhaps be a little more successful, but I don't believe we'd have been that close to relegation. Many will probably disagree, but that's how I saw it.

I'd also say that we don't know what expectations were placed on him at the start of the season. BR's understanding seemed to be of a 3 year plan, that's why he felt so comfortable entering the season with what was a very inexperienced team. He wasn't backed in the summer, we lost a lot of players, and who can forget the complete farce we made of trying to sign his main target? If the club honestly expected him to completely change the way we played and still get promoted with the squad at his disposal then that was naive at best. It's my understanding that it was the breakdown in his relationship with Howe that did for him, rather than performances, and SJM was very reluctant to go through with it.

He made mistakes, his relationship with Matt Mills being an obvious example, and some of the performances were poor, but it's my view that we'd have been better off sticking with him. Just because a manager is under-performing at the time, it does not necessarily mean he should be sacked, even if that is the course of action that many clubs take. Like you say, there are no guarantees and this is all totally subjective, but as his managerial qualities become more obvious our decision to sack him looks increasing short sighted.

[Ian Royal]

It was well documented at the time he had three years to get promotion, you mention it yourself. I would suggest, as I have done several times, that implicit in that expectation is not falling below about 12th - 14th, while we spent our entire time under him in 17th - 23rd. When he left we were 21st having just drawn 1-1 with the league whipping boys and lost eventual relegation survivors Palace, both at home. To be honest he did well to survive losing 4 games on the bounce in October, including a total arse raping by 10 man, mid-table QPR.

I also reject that he wasn't backed in the transfer market. He knew the job he was walking into, rebuilding a relegated side that had gambled and lost the previous season and was going to need to make cuts and sell. Yes he lost several good players, but he spent more than any other Reading Manager at that level, and how he spent it was poor for the most part. Rasiak, Mills, Cummings, Howard. He failed to get much out of any of them and all were over-priced for what they delivered. Lets not forget it was him that made the Smith failure such a circus.

And it appears his answer was to buy his way out of trouble in January having got a decent squad to under perform.

I'm perfectly happy to accept that many people think we'd have been better off keeping him and there's a possibility you'd be right. But that doesn't make the decision to sack him an unreasonable or bad one under the circumstances.

We are where we are and no amount of 20:20 looking back is going to change that.

[No Fixed Abode]

"Only" 6? There are only 19 other teams in the league!

If you want to win the title then you to elimin8 the sort of calamitous defending Liverpool routinely roll out. Remember that much of their defensive solidity will come from controlling the football or it being in the back of the opponents net all the time. The actual back four are useless.

Cardiff's second goal for example, deary me.

This all said, Liverpool have easily been the best team to watch in the league this year and I tuned in again on Saturday to see another classic.

I think you missed the point-it's not as if they are 15th or 16th in the defensive stakes they are in the equivalent of where Man Utd are.
The original aim of football was , and is, to score goals, but in the recent past (as in most sports) defences win titles and cups (dreary old Chelsea and Inter Milan) so it is good to see a side as a throwback and they are indeed bringing a lot of pleasure to those that watch them.

The same dreary Chelsea who have won in recent years

8-0 v Wigan
8-0 v Villa
6-0 v Arsenal
6-0 v Wigan
6-0 v West Brom
6-0 v Man City
6-1 v Derby
7-0 v Ipswich Town
5-1 v Bolton
5-0 v Boro
5-0 v Sunderland
4-0 v West Brom
4-1 v Liverpool
4-1 v Arsenal
4-1 v West Ham
7-2 v Sunderland
5-0 v Blackburn
5-0 v Portsmouth
7-1 v Villa
7-0 v Stoke
6-1 v QPR
5-1 v Spurs
4-0 v Spurs

Dreary old Chelsea indeed

[soggy biscuit]

8-0 v Wigan
8-0 v Villa
6-0 v Arsenal
6-0 v Wigan
6-0 v West Brom
6-0 v Man City
6-1 v Derby
7-0 v Ipswich Town
5-1 v Bolton
5-0 v Boro
5-0 v Sunderland
4-0 v West Brom
4-1 v Liverpool
4-1 v Arsenal
4-1 v West Ham
7-2 v Sunderland
5-0 v Blackburn
5-0 v Portsmouth
7-1 v Villa
7-0 v Stoke
6-1 v QPR
5-1 v Spurs
4-0 v Spurs

Dreary old Chelsea indeed

aren't some of those from 4 to 5 years ago??

rattLOLed/i'm embarrassed for you