Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[SPARTA]

QPR denied a claim recently that they were something like £60m over what they're allowed to spend and would be in big trouble with the FFP rules. I think means big fines and even point deductions? No wonder they're fighting it.

[No Fixed Abode]

Rumours coming out of Reading that all your 'assets' in terms of players will be sold in Summer should you not get promotion.

So that means only Alex McCarthy will be sold in Summer.





*plus the really shite players.

[Vision]

I suspect one of the reasons the hotel is a stumbling block in negotiations to sell is because it's a very valuable revenue stream with regards to FFP.

Bottom Line is that we lost nearly £12m the last time we were in this division. The wage bill for that season was £26m. We came down with a wage bill of £46m. You'd like to think that there are relegation clauses in the players contracts but given the naivety that Anton has displayed at exactly how costly running a football club is (to be fair it's no different to many of the fans who seem to buy the whole £100m licence to print money promotion guff) then I wouldn't be surprised at all if that side of it was neglected in order to attract the likes of Pog/Guthrie etc. Even if we do have those clauses then it's pushing it to imagine we would be wiping 10m off of that previous figure which would still see a wage bill significantly above that we had in our previous Premiership campaigns.

Do I think we'll be a basket case? No, Madejski won't allow that and the extra 2 years of 8m will probably avoid that meltdown. Player sales bailed us out the last time we were in this situation and will have to do so again. This time round though the cloth cutting will need to be deeper because the sums we need to recover are higher than ever befoe and even then we knew we lost money as a Championship club and now we have the added expense of Cat A to keep up with.

My point really is to show how easy it is to slip into real trouble. We're considered well run (snark) and prudent in football circles and positively tight and unambitious by many fans. Yet we need to take pretty drastic action just to make sure we don't fall foul of regulations. If we don't manage to cloth cut in the manner we need then it should surpise no-one that Madejski would try all he could to protect us from the consequences.

Just to underline the point though. In our promotion season of 10/11 only one other club had a wages/turnover ratio worse than ours of a whopping %135. That would see us on the radar of FFP regulators. Granted I suspect some of that will be taken up with promotion bonuses but even so it was also a campaign where the second half had match day revenues maximised due to the success we were enjoying.

From The Swiss Ramble

Incredibly nine Championship clubs had a wages to turnover ratio above 100%: Bristol City 157%, Reading 135%, Leicester 130%, Southampton 125%, Ipswich 119%, Middlesbrough 119%, Nottingham Forest 119%, Doncaster Rovers 113% and Cardiff City 103%

[Uke]

If that's the case then my view is so be it; the current state of financial stupidity can't carry on, and though FPP isn't brilliant, it is better than leaving things as they are.

In essence, its a solution to a bigger issue that supercedes the narrow self interests of any single club (or owner) - and that includes our own.

*FFP

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

I suspect one of the reasons the hotel is a stumbling block in negotiations to sell is because it's a very valuable revenue stream with regards to FFP.

Bottom Line is that we lost nearly £12m the last time we were in this division. The wage bill for that season was £26m. We came down with a wage bill of £46m. You'd like to think that there are relegation clauses in the players contracts but given the naivety that Anton has displayed at exactly how costly running a football club is (to be fair it's no different to many of the fans who seem to buy the whole £100m licence to print money promotion guff) then I wouldn't be surprised at all if that side of it was neglected in order to attract the likes of Pog/Guthrie etc. Even if we do have those clauses then it's pushing it to imagine we would be wiping 10m off of that previous figure which would still see a wage bill significantly above that we had in our previous Premiership campaigns.

Do I think we'll be a basket case? No, Madejski won't allow that and the extra 2 years of 8m will probably avoid that meltdown. Player sales bailed us out the last time we were in this situation and will have to do so again. This time round though the cloth cutting will need to be deeper because the sums we need to recover are higher than ever befoe and even then we knew we lost money as a Championship club and now we have the added expense of Cat A to keep up with.

My point really is to show how easy it is to slip into real trouble. We're considered well run (snark) and prudent in football circles and positively tight and unambitious by many fans. Yet we need to take pretty drastic action just to make sure we don't fall foul of regulations. If we don't manage to cloth cut in the manner we need then it should surpise no-one that Madejski would try all he could to protect us from the consequences.

Just to underline the point though. In our promotion season of 10/11 only one other club had a wages/turnover ratio worse than ours of a whopping %135. That would see us on the radar of FFP regulators. Granted I suspect some of that will be taken up with promotion bonuses but even so it was also a campaign where the second half had match day revenues maximised due to the success we were enjoying.

Good post Vision.

One thing: I think (but am not 100%) that the costs of running the Cat A Youth setup can be used offset the usual costs, so hopefully this shouldn't be a problem with regards to FFP. Doesn't mean we don't have to find the £2.5m to run it though.

I am pretty sure we'll still be in this division next year, but our squad is going to look a lot different. And it wouldn't surprise me if we have to take a medium term view and shell out sweetners in order to get rid of some players, especially Pog, Drenthe and Guthrie. Can't see many clubs coming in for them and matching their wages. Should get good money for McCarthy, McCleary and Gunter though - I'd have though around £10m for them. That should put us back on a roughly even keel, or at the very least a more sustainable position.

[SPARTA]

I suspect one of the reasons the hotel is a stumbling block in negotiations to sell is because it's a very valuable revenue stream with regards to FFP.

Bottom Line is that we lost nearly £12m the last time we were in this division. The wage bill for that season was £26m. We came down with a wage bill of £46m. You'd like to think that there are relegation clauses in the players contracts but given the naivety that Anton has displayed at exactly how costly running a football club is (to be fair it's no different to many of the fans who seem to buy the whole £100m licence to print money promotion guff) then I wouldn't be surprised at all if that side of it was neglected in order to attract the likes of Pog/Guthrie etc. Even if we do have those clauses then it's pushing it to imagine we would be wiping 10m off of that previous figure which would still see a wage bill significantly above that we had in our previous Premiership campaigns.

Do I think we'll be a basket case? No, Madejski won't allow that and the extra 2 years of 8m will probably avoid that meltdown. Player sales bailed us out the last time we were in this situation and will have to do so again. This time round though the cloth cutting will need to be deeper because the sums we need to recover are higher than ever befoe and even then we knew we lost money as a Championship club and now we have the added expense of Cat A to keep up with.

My point really is to show how easy it is to slip into real trouble. We're considered well run (snark) and prudent in football circles and positively tight and unambitious by many fans. Yet we need to take pretty drastic action just to make sure we don't fall foul of regulations. If we don't manage to cloth cut in the manner we need then it should surpise no-one that Madejski would try all he could to protect us from the consequences.

Just to underline the point though. In our promotion season of 10/11 only one other club had a wages/turnover ratio worse than ours of a whopping %135. That would see us on the radar of FFP regulators. Granted I suspect some of that will be taken up with promotion bonuses but even so it was also a campaign where the second half had match day revenues maximised due to the success we were enjoying.

From The Swiss Ramble

Incredibly nine Championship clubs had a wages to turnover ratio above 100%: Bristol City 157%, Reading 135%, Leicester 130%, Southampton 125%, Ipswich 119%, Middlesbrough 119%, Nottingham Forest 119%, Doncaster Rovers 113% and Cardiff City 103%

One of the problems with selling the hotel has been SJM wanting to keep his top floor apartment. Quite why he feels he needs it I don't know, he only lives down the road in a whopping great mansion.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

So what happens to brum now that Carsten Yeung has been found guilty of money laundering?

.... a money launderer buying a football club, well I never

[From Despair To Where?]

I'm hard pressed to find an answer to that one.

[Vision]

I've nothing to back this up other than a hunch but I suspect had we not been relegated in 07/08 that Madejski had a buyer lined up and that buyer was Carsten Yeung.

[Royal Ginger]

Assets frozen? Shares taken by the state?

Would be good for the lolz if Birmingham City FC ended up being owned by the Hong Kong government.

[Wycombe Royal]

So what happens to brum now that Carsten Yeung has been found guilty of money laundering?

.... a money launderer buying a football club, well I never

I doubt it will affect them. He has already stepped down as Chairman (that was a while back now) and has no involvement in the running of BCFC or its parent company BIHL.

[SPARTA]

I've nothing to back this up other than a hunch but I suspect had we not been relegated in 07/08 that Madejski had a buyer lined up and that buyer was Carsten Yeung.

He was certainly in talks with us when we were in the PL the first time around.

[YateleyRoyal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26418684

Not necessarily crisis, but certainly worrying.

[Brum Royal]

It's an interesting formula, of having various clubs in different countries at different levels and essentially having a feeder network. The only real problem seems to come if both sides qualify for Europe.

[Wycombe Royal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26418684

Not necessarily crisis, but certainly worrying.

With the exception of Simon Church, I can't see there be any players good enough to play in the Champions League.

[Royalclapper]

You've got to hand it to Nigel Pearson at Leicester for turning them around and possibly saving them from a meltdown.

Their financial report out today shows losses of 34m up to May 2013, which is up from nearly 30m in 2012. Most of these losses are probably down to Sven's splurge on big wage thieves like Mills and Vassell. They're looking pretty safe now to pick up the 120m Premier payout and they've managed to do it by bringing a lot of younger players through - surely they'd be financially shafted without this promotion.

In some ways it seems unjust given Leicester's track record of dodgy finance but it's something other Championship clubs tempted to spend big could look towards.

[Ian Royal]

You've got to hand it to Nigel Pearson at Leicester for turning them around and possibly saving them from a meltdown.

Their financial report out today shows losses of 34m up to May 2013, which is up from nearly 30m in 2012. Most of these losses are probably down to Sven's splurge on big wage thieves like Mills and Vassell. They're looking pretty safe now to pick up the 120m Premier payout and they've managed to do it by bringing a lot of younger players through - surely they'd be financially shafted without this promotion.

In some ways it seems unjust given Leicester's track record of dodgy finance but it's something other Championship clubs tempted to spend big could look towards.

Problem is all that money (and more) is likely to go on trying to stay in the PL and if they fail they may find themselves back here in an even worse position.

The sensible course is to take instant relegation on the chin without any spending and cash in on the parachute payments. How many teams have got away with that in recent years? Maybe a couple of Burnley, Blackpool, Hull, Watford... maybe. But even then the promoted players will want pay rises (and probably have them contracted) or to leave.

[SPARTA]

Will FFP catch up with them on that one or is it just early enough for them to avoid being penalised? QPR have reportedly lost double that and have tried denying they will receive millions in fines as a result.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... ce-2802097

[Far from the royal crowds]

Will FFP catch up with them on that one or is it just early enough for them to avoid being penalised? QPR have reportedly lost double that and have tried denying they will receive millions in fines as a result.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... ce-2802097

If Leicester's loss is correct (which the club denies), they'll be hit with a fine of £22.5 million if they get promoted. No surprise that Leicester and QPR are supposed to be two of the three clubs challenging the FFP on a technicality.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leice ... story.html

[Wycombe Royal]

Will FFP catch up with them on that one or is it just early enough for them to avoid being penalised? QPR have reportedly lost double that and have tried denying they will receive millions in fines as a result.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... ce-2802097

If Leicester's loss is correct (which the club denies), they'll be hit with a fine of £22.5 million if they get promoted. No surprise that Leicester and QPR are supposed to be two of the three clubs challenging the FFP on a technicality.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leice ... story.html

The losses for Leicester relate to the 2012/13 season and the rules don't come into force until the 2013/14 season. They have been sensible in getting a lot of large expense items into the 2012/13 financial year in preparation for the rules coming in to force.

Basically Leicester will not be hit with any fine on the back of these results.