Euro 2012 - Knockout Stages

[muddyfeet]

personally don't think Barry should be let anywhere near the England squad

anyway last night seemed pretty inevitable so wasn't that disappointed. We shouldn't have looked so knackered after 45 mins tho.

Hodgson did as well as he could with the players and time he had imo

[Alan Partridge]

personally don't think Barry should be let anywhere near the England squad

anyway last night seemed pretty inevitable so wasn't that disappointed. We shouldn't have looked so knackered after 45 mins tho.

Hodgson did as well as he could with the players and time he had imo

Agreed 100% but IF he was fit he would have been selected and was another option taken away from RH. I think it would have been a coin toss as to whether he'd have been a better option than Henderson, but I think RH would have rather picked him than Henderson, safer bet I suppose.

[Gordons Cumming]

I think it shows Hodgson was right not to bring in Ferdinand.

[BR2]

3/4's of England's would be starting XI were sat at home watching this

out of interest, who are these?

ps our most effective players yesterday were Carroll and Johnson imo.


pps have to say I disagree vehemently with RR's earlier comments about embarrassment. I do accept we were second best of course. But I would have LOVED to have gone through, however flukily.

Kyle Walker
Gary Cahill
Gareth Barry
Frank Lampard
Jack Wilshere
Jack Rodwell
Tom Huddlestone
Darren Bent

Could all have a case for starting or being involved. I'd start Walker, Cahill, Wilshere, Huddlestone and Bent if I was picking a starting XI from scratch. Only my opinion natch.

I would also seriously consider changing Glen Johnson to a winger or right hand side midfielder. He looks so dangerous in the opponents half and much more suited there than at right back where his positioning is generally awful.

If our players were bright enough,football brain that is and not a criticism of their intellect,we would probably play with 3 at the back with our two full backs as wing-backs.
Hardly any full-backs in this country are natural defenders,they are mainly converted wingers,eg. Johnson,Walker,Johnson who would all better serve the side as wing-backs thereby allowing 3 to play centrally or even four plus two or one up front.
Most of our coaches and players are entrenched in 4-4-2 and just can't cope with anything different other than sometimes going with one up front and one just behind.

We are a long way behind in skill but also fail in making the best of what we have got.
Interesting also to read about all these good players coming through-at the moment it is just a list of names and people natural feel better about things if they can come up with a list-that somehow proves that it is just a matter of time (once again)when in reality the FA has to get the way young kids learn about the game to change.
Fortunately their last edict may at long last (and a bit late in the day)lead to skills being developed at an early age but let's not hold our breath for as long as there is dad screaming from the touchline for his 8-year old lad to clear the ball we will remain in the dark ages.
Bearing in mind last night's performance perhaps we should revisit "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

[Hoop Blah]

Thoroughly embarrassing and lucky is the way to sum up the performances but Hodgson is not to blame as a) he did have a somewhat depleted squad due to injury (and other decisions) and b) England just aren't technically very good due to the crap set up in this country that after every tournament for the last n years the FA have said they'd do something about and promptly done bugger all. Of course this latter part isn't helped the thye ludicrous amounts of foreigners playing in the English game but when the roots of the game are so very wrong - and have been for decades - you reap what you earn.

At the end of the day though England are still (just about) a top 10 country in the world of football but just aren't capable of progressing aywhere beyond about 8th.

So what isn't happening that you'd put in place if you were the man pulling the strings at the FA?

[Royal Rother]

Thoroughly embarrassing and lucky is the way to sum up the performances but Hodgson is not to blame as a) he did have a somewhat depleted squad due to injury (and other decisions) and b) England just aren't technically very good due to the crap set up in this country that after every tournament for the last n years the FA have said they'd do something about and promptly done bugger all. Of course this latter part isn't helped the thye ludicrous amounts of foreigners playing in the English game but when the roots of the game are so very wrong - and have been for decades - you reap what you earn.

At the end of the day though England are still (just about) a top 10 country in the world of football but just aren't capable of progressing aywhere beyond about 8th.

So what isn't happening that you'd put in place if you were the man pulling the strings at the FA?

(Not that it was directed at me but...) I guess we've all got our own ideas on that but I think the best answer is to simply pay, and give absolute power to, people like Arsene Wenger, Gary Neville and Glen Hoddle to shake the whole thing up once and for all. All visionaries of a sort, excellent communicators, and not a yes man amongst them.

When Germany were thrashed 5-1 by us they were embarrassed and said "never again" so went out and changed things. Within 6 or 7 years they had developed an excellent young team capable of winning major tournaments.

So it can be done within a relatively short space of time. Trouble is it needs people with the respect, charisma and strength of character to lead the way, i.e. not Trevor Brooking and Gareth Southgate.

[Super_horns]

For 45 minutes we did well but then either tried to defend or were forced to as Pirlo controlled the game.without much competition.

Always going to lose that shoot-out weren't we....

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Personally I'd put some effort into looking at what other nations do that we don't. Even forgetting Spain, Germany and Italy for a while, why can small countries like Denmark and Croatia produce players that are technically better than ours? What do they do right, or more specifically, what do we do wrong?

At what age does it start to go wrong? Is it just academy age training, or is it more fundamental? If you took a group of English kids at about 9 years old, and played a similar age group from Spain, would you be able to see differences already?

[frimmers3]

i have always wondered why the governing body of english football is in the main formed of individuals that have nothing outwardly to do with football.that is the root cause of under achievement. as others have suggested,many of our greatest talents on the football pitch were ignored or given short change by a ruling body sadly out of touch.

[cmonurz]

I see both sides of the argument, to be honest – I’d love to see an England team playing with the vision and flair of the minds of Wenger and Hoddle. But equally we don’t produce many players of that style, so instead I’d quite readily see an England side develop around our strengths – pace, power, counter-attacking football. Either way, I want to see a style develop – I think given time Hodgson might get there; imho to have got as close to a semi-final as we did is a credit to Hodgson’s preparation for this tournament, and he only had a month.

[frimmers3]

there was a time when england could have fielded the likes of hoddle,waddle,gascoigne and le tiss..but their faces did not fit.better the journeymen the f.a approved.god knows he had his demons and faults,but had brian clough been given reign to oversee a team built around those guys(and others not mentioned) we might still be on a honeymoon rather than bridesmaids.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Thoroughly embarrassing and lucky is the way to sum up the performances but Hodgson is not to blame as a) he did have a somewhat depleted squad due to injury (and other decisions) and b) England just aren't technically very good due to the crap set up in this country that after every tournament for the last n years the FA have said they'd do something about and promptly done bugger all. Of course this latter part isn't helped the thye ludicrous amounts of foreigners playing in the English game but when the roots of the game are so very wrong - and have been for decades - you reap what you earn.

At the end of the day though England are still (just about) a top 10 country in the world of football but just aren't capable of progressing aywhere beyond about 8th.

So what isn't happening that you'd put in place if you were the man pulling the strings at the FA?

(Not that it was directed at me but...) I guess we've all got our own ideas on that but I think the best answer is to simply pay, and give absolute power to, people like Arsene Wenger, Gary Neville and Glen Hoddle to shake the whole thing up once and for all. All visionaries of a sort, excellent communicators, and not a yes man amongst them.

When Germany were thrashed 5-1 by us they were embarrassed and said "never again" so went out and changed things. Within 6 or 7 years they had developed an excellent young team capable of winning major tournaments.

So it can be done within a relatively short space of time. Trouble is it needs people with the respect, charisma and strength of character to lead the way, i.e. not Trevor Brooking and Gareth Southgate.

Well for one the Burton thing would appear to be a step in the right direction and something that should have been done 20 odd years ago. Also restructuring the game at kids level so that they perhaps work with balls, teams and pitch sizes that are commensurate with their age. I also believe there is a lot to be said for starting kids out with playing a slightly deflated ball that's harder to control so that the basics of technique and control can be brought to the fore as ealy as possible. Next, as they get older, I'd also encourage players getting to understand all positions and ateach them to understand 442, 433, 541 and 532 so that they have flexibility to understand the changes required in playing in those formations.

[Royal Rother]

I see both sides of the argument, to be honest – I’d love to see an England team playing with the vision and flair of the minds of Wenger and Hoddle. But equally we don’t produce many players of that style...

But that's the point isn't it? These guys would have the brief to ensure that we DID produce players of that style.

Surely the kids are out there, but something prevents them from coming through at the moment. Something happens between the age of 10 and 16 that stifles them. Again, I'm sure we all have ideas about what that might be, but people like the aforementioned would KNOW. And with the power to change things, and their leadership skills etc. etc. they could do it.

I agree with BR2's point earlier about parents being at fault to an extent for yelling at the sidelines for Little Johnnie to "GET RID OF IT" - but I'm sure something can be done about that. A campaign of awareness could get through to even the dimmest parent - they've spent millions and millions on the Respect campaign over the years, so spend some on a similar campaign that speaks directly to coaches and parents about the damage the screamers can do to young footballers...

[6ft Kerplunk]

there was a time when england could have fielded the likes of hoddle,waddle,gascoigne and le tiss..but their faces did not fit.

Three of those four have 50+ caps, thats hardly not being given a chance. We did try and build a team around Gazza, not really the FA's fault that he went off the rails.
You have to laugh at the media though. Apparantly they all agree we need a Pirlo type of players now. So how come when Capello said he was going to play Wiltshire in a deeper role, you know like Pirlo does, they were up in arms about him not being a defensive holding midfielder?

[Hoop Blah]

Personally I'd put some effort into looking at what other nations do that we don't. Even forgetting Spain, Germany and Italy for a while, why can small countries like Denmark and Croatia produce players that are technically better than ours? What do they do right, or more specifically, what do we do wrong?

At what age does it start to go wrong? Is it just academy age training, or is it more fundamental? If you took a group of English kids at about 9 years old, and played a similar age group from Spain, would you be able to see differences already?

We have done that over the last 10 years or so though. It's taken too long to get the national centre built, but it's something we took from the French when they were the team producing the quality talent. We also spent time looking at how the Dutch do things and I believe both of those projects have had a lot of input in to the way we've restructured youth coaching and the acadamies over the last decade or so.

The German model that RR refers to is really interesting. Somehow they've nurtured the quality they had, whilst picking up some othe religable players, and formed a team that have, to a degree, come up through the ranks together. We had that with the Nevilles, Beckham's etc, but they didn't fulfil that potential. Why not I've no idea, but I think it's a cultural thing as much as anything.

Do we need to be more aggressive in 'stealing' the likes of Bale, Ramsey or any other product of the English system in the way that perhaps France and Germany are better than us? Well that would be one way of going about it!

I've said before that I think culturally we produce a certain type of player because of our approach to life and the facilities/environment we have. The Spanish, Germans, Dutch etc all do the same and we'd probably need to either change our culture or learn a new way of getting the best out of that type of player. The right answer is probably in middle somewhere. We can't change the countries culture, but I think we are evolving the footballing culture (we're seeing more technical midfielders coming through than in the last 20 years), but I don't think we're quite yet getting the best out of what we've got. I'm hopeful Hodgson might be better than the last few managers at doing that though.

[frimmers3]

there was a time when england could have fielded the likes of hoddle,waddle,gascoigne and le tiss..but their faces did not fit.

Three of those four have 50+ caps, thats hardly not being given a chance. We did try and build a team around Gazza, not really the FA's fault that he went off the rails.
You have to laugh at the media though. Apparantly they all agree we need a Pirlo type of players now. So how come when Capello said he was going to play Wiltshire in a deeper role, you know like Pirlo does, they were up in arms about him not being a defensive holding midfielder?

i was talking about the appointed manager of said players.

[Bandini]

Ashley Young has to take a penalty, otherwise he wouldn't have been kept on.
I assume Gerrard and Rooney as well?
So who are the last two, Carroll and Cole?

Terry, Rooney, Gerrard, Young, Carroll.

Underlined to definitely miss.

This amused me, Ian.

[Bandini]

RR - Hoddle really wasn't an excellent communicator. His time in charge of England suggested that it was one of the worst facets of his game.

[Hoop Blah]

I see both sides of the argument, to be honest – I’d love to see an England team playing with the vision and flair of the minds of Wenger and Hoddle. But equally we don’t produce many players of that style...

But that's the point isn't it? These guys would have the brief to ensure that we DID produce players of that style.

Surely the kids are out there, but something prevents them from coming through at the moment. Something happens between the age of 10 and 16 that stifles them. Again, I'm sure we all have ideas about what that might be, but people like the aforementioned would KNOW. And with the power to change things, and their leadership skills etc. etc. they could do it.

I agree with BR2's point earlier about parents being at fault to an extent for yelling at the sidelines for Little Johnnie to "GET RID OF IT" - but I'm sure something can be done about that. A campaign of awareness could get through to even the dimmest parent - they've spent millions and millions on the Respect campaign over the years, so spend some on a similar campaign that speaks directly to coaches and parents about the damage the screamers can do to young footballers...

I don't think we're an artistic or risk taking society, and our footballers reflects that. That I see as a large part of the 'problem' as the creative players that might be out there do not flourish quite enough and that's as much a social things as it is a football issue.

[frimmers3]

RR - Hoddle really wasn't an excellent communicator. His time in charge of England suggested that it was one of the worst facets of his game.

problem was hoddle could still do things with a football his charges could not.