Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[Tony Le Mesmer]

Sky News commented that the ST. Johns Ambulance volunteers had not even been paid their expenses. whilst players on £80k a week get every penny. Yet some poster thinks that points penalties should be more lenient. I suppose rhroyal also thinks that criminals should just get a slap on the wrists so that his or her Mum doesnt get too upset when they go to prison? Ive got no sympathy for their fans, they weren't maoning too much at Wembley were they?

On a more genral view on the whole finances subject, clubs should be automatically relegated 1 division if they go into Administration . If they fail to reach a CVA, they should lose their golden share and be expelled from the league.

like DG said though, stricter rules/penalties should be in place to stop it getting this far in the first place.

[Silver Fox]

Don't the creditors have to agree to an adminstrator coming in? I can't see HMRC going for it, especially given their oft mentioned on this thread opposition to the football creditors rule

[Thaumagurist*]

Sky News commented that the ST. Johns Ambulance volunteers had not even been paid their expenses. whilst players on £80k a week get every penny.

I think that's wrong. Those players should be forced to take a pay cut. A big one. Like 50%.

[Comfortably Numb]

Sky News commented that the ST. Johns Ambulance volunteers had not even been paid their expenses. whilst players on £80k a week get every penny.

I think that's wrong. Those players should be forced to take a pay cut. A big one. Like 50%.

forced like how, lovey

[Barry the bird boggler]

It is disgusting the way the football community decided to pull together and ensure CVA's would pay off 100% of the debt to football creditors.

Luckily that's part of the reason the HRMC are so intransigent over those situations.

[Mr Angry]

As I understand it, Pompey have SEVEN days to produce the statement of financial affairs; they can't wait until the 19th and then, out of the hat, produce one.

The 19th is the next available date for the hearing, which will assess whether the financial statement supplied is enough for HMRC to be satisfied that they will get their money.

Anyone having any dealings with Portsmouth Football Club between now and next Friday would be WELL advised to get payment for services in cash and upfront; UNLESS they can produce the £11.5M on the day, or at least give cast iron guarantees that the money is there, then Pompey are dead and buried.

What I can't understand is this; why don't the PL stump up the money for HMRC which would at least ensure that Pompey fulfill their fixtures for this season, then the PL as a creditor could demand that Pompey go into administration. Then they could withold Pompey's parachute payment for next season after the inevitable relegation, thus getting their money back.

[Baines]

Sky News commented that the ST. Johns Ambulance volunteers had not even been paid their expenses. whilst players on £80k a week get every penny.

I think that's wrong. Those players should be forced to take a pay cut. A big one. Like 50%.

forced like how, lovey

No doubt Spacey was referring to the power of the Liquidator (if one is appointed) to disclaim onerous/unprofitable contracts. I'm not certain that the players contracts would necessarily fall within the ambit of that power, but it's imaginative thinking.

[TFF]

As I understand it, Pompey have SEVEN days to produce the statement of financial affairs; they can't wait until the 19th and then, out of the hat, produce one.

The 19th is the next available date for the hearing, which will assess whether the financial statement supplied is enough for HMRC to be satisfied that they will get their money.

Anyone having any dealings with Portsmouth Football Club between now and next Friday would be WELL advised to get payment for services in cash and upfront; UNLESS they can produce the £11.5M on the day, or at least give cast iron guarantees that the money is there, then Pompey are dead and buried.

What I can't understand is this; why don't the PL stump up the money for HMRC which would at least ensure that Pompey fulfill their fixtures for this season, then the PL as a creditor could demand that Pompey go into administration. Then they could withold Pompey's parachute payment for next season after the inevitable relegation, thus getting their money back.

Probably because the debt (the parachute payments) would be payable to the administrators and then shared between all the creditors at 2p in the pound.

Even the Premier League aren't that stupid.

[Mr Angry]

As I understand it, Pompey have SEVEN days to produce the statement of financial affairs; they can't wait until the 19th and then, out of the hat, produce one.

The 19th is the next available date for the hearing, which will assess whether the financial statement supplied is enough for HMRC to be satisfied that they will get their money.

Anyone having any dealings with Portsmouth Football Club between now and next Friday would be WELL advised to get payment for services in cash and upfront; UNLESS they can produce the £11.5M on the day, or at least give cast iron guarantees that the money is there, then Pompey are dead and buried.

What I can't understand is this; why don't the PL stump up the money for HMRC which would at least ensure that Pompey fulfill their fixtures for this season, then the PL as a creditor could demand that Pompey go into administration. Then they could withold Pompey's parachute payment for next season after the inevitable relegation, thus getting their money back.

Probably because the debt (the parachute payments) would be payable to the administrators and then shared between all the creditors at 2p in the pound.

Even the Premier League aren't that stupid.

Fair shout.

[Wax Jacket]

It is disgusting the way the football community decided to pull together and ensure CVA's would pay off 100% of the debt to football creditors.

Luckily that's part of the reason the HRMC are so intransigent over those situations.

yep, big hats off to them for that

[Muskrat]

This is a joke. HMRC have stated unequivically that Portsmouth are by any measure, trading insolvently, which I understand is against Company Law. They should simply be wound up as a business. End of.

Maybe some people will not be so critical of the way that Reading is run now..

[Arch]

This is a joke. HMRC have stated unequivically that Portsmouth are by any measure, trading insolvently, which I understand is against Company Law. They should simply be wound up as a business. End of.

Maybe some people will not be so critical of the way that Reading is run now..

Don't be ridiculous!

[Compo's Hat]

It reallys is looking like the end for Chester City

http://www.cityfansunited.com/the-news/ ... -died.html

10th February 2010 – The Day Chester City Football Club Died
Written by City Fans United
Wednesday, 10 February 2010 16:26

The indignity of failing to fulfil last night’s fixture at Forest Green followed by the announcement that we are unable to host our local rival’s Wrexham on Sunday means that Chester City Football Club has effectively ceased to be. We have been tested to the limit as supporters and our support base has been driven down to a rump through incompetence and worse.

The current owner has forfeited the right to be associated with our great City’s once proud football team. It is painful beyond measure to say this as loyal Chester City supporters but we must and we will start again. The scale of debt incredibly incurred in such a short space of time renders the Club (Chester City Football Club 2004 Ltd) beyond redemption. We are therefore calling on the football authorities to act swiftly and decisively to put the Club out of its miserable state. Further delay will simply prolong the agony and will not result in anything positive.

We would like to reassure all Chester City Supporters that this is not the end – but the beginning of a community led football club that we can all be proud of. We have already begun to talk to the Football authorities, the Council and teams that have been through similar experiences (such as AFC Telford, AFC Wimbledon and FC United of Manchester). We are certain that a football club in Chester will rise again, better than ever.

We know it will be tough and we do not underestimate the hard work and hurdles that will need to be cleared to make it happen. We will need the support of everyone who has supported Chester in the past together with others who now might want to work with us to build a new Club from scratch.

Finally, we would like to reassure the FA and other football authorities that we are determined that the new football club in Chester will be run to the highest standards. It will be inclusive and will fulfil an active role in the community. It will be a great advert for football and everything positive about our national game. We are more aware than anyone of how tarnished the reputation of Chester has become due to the way in which our club’s affairs have been conducted for a considerable period.

All we ask is the opportunity to put that right as soon as possible.

City Fans United, 10th February, 2010

The conference have got themselves into a real mess now as the wanted Chester to carry out they're fixtures for this season and now it doesn't look possible.

[weybridgewanderer]

What I can't understand is this; why don't the PL stump up the money for HMRC which would at least ensure that Pompey fulfill their fixtures for this season, then the PL as a creditor could demand that Pompey go into administration. Then they could withold Pompey's parachute payment for next season after the inevitable relegation, thus getting their money back.

Pompie owe many people large sums of money, as do West ham

If they bail pompie out now, in a few weeks when someone else demands their money or they send in the bailiffs, does the premier league pay them too?

[FiNeRaIn]

Everyones knows pompey will get off, looked after by the big boys.

[The whole year inn]

Everyones knows pompey will get off

Of course they will - never in doubt

All these court cases are worthless - just wasting even more money

[Royal Rother]

This is a joke. HMRC have stated unequivically that Portsmouth are by any measure, trading insolvently, which I understand is against Company Law. They should simply be wound up as a business. End of.

That's not really correct.

If the Directors identify that they have a problem (i.e they are insolvent) it is their responsibility to take appropriate action to protect their suppliers etc. from incurring further debt. If they, and the insolvency practitioners they consult, believe that there is a good chance that they could obtain funding from some other source (sale of assets at good values / outside investment), then they are at liberty to continue to trade.

There are other things they are supposed to do as well, (like inform their suppliers that they are insolvent every time they place an order I think) but the above is the nutshell case as I understand it.

If it can be proven that the Directors continued to trade, and in doing so actually increased the debts, when there was no real likelihood of obtaining additional funds, then they could be in serious trouble because the creditors can come after them personally for the amount the debts were increased by after the period when they should, by rights, have ceased trading.

I can't believe they haven't taken the appropriate advice - if these various owners have all proved to have bugger all money, but at the time it looked they might well have, then it is unlikely a case could be proven against them of acting against the interests of the creditors by continuing to trade; after all, the creditors all want the directors to be successful in raising additional funds so they can get paid.

If on the other hand the various owners have all been in on some conspiracy with the Directors, playing a game of smoke and mirrors, then the whole lot of them could go down for a few years.

[Ian Royal]

Does anyone else think that these dodgy middle-eastern owners Pompey have had, look like they've just got involved to launder large amounts of money, rather than own a club?

It's all been so weird and dodgy there absolutely has to be some sort of ulterior motive going on....


Do we have an extradition treaty with the relevant countries Rother?

[papereyes]

Why did Chester go under?

[Dirk Gently]

Why did Chester go under?

Because Vaughan, their chairman, is a pcunt of the highest magnitude, and is doing to them exactly what he did to Barrow.

For now, though, he’s still there. The man that sold his shares in Barrow for a nominal fee when the club played Vaughan’s Chester in the FA Cup to a painter and decorator, only to buy them back a couple of days after the match was played. The man that held a minute’s silence at The Deva Stadium for Colin Smith, a gangster shot dead outside a Liverpool gymnasium in 2007. The man that either did or didn’t pay £11,000 per week for “cleaning services” earlier this year. The man that signed the club over to his son at the end of April without making it public. The man that attempted a CVA with himself as the biggest creditor and saw an appeal against it upheld in court. Moreover, he still passes the FA’s Fit & Proper Person test to be a director of a club. In some respects, this at least makes sense, at least logically. After all, if he wasn’t a “fit & proper person” to run a football club, the Football Conference wouldn’t have accepted his application to join their league and the FA wouldn’t have ratified the decision, would they?