Football analysts on TV

[Zammo]

Lawro used to work well with Alan Green on FiveLive, but his co-commentary has been in serious decline for the last 18 months. Last night was the final straw. On a couple of occasions he answered Guy Mowbray's fairly intelligent questions with either 'yeah or na' and also used 'flippin-heck' twice.

Agree on Lee Dixon and Danny Mills. Even Mark Bright is better than Lawro. I noticed that Ian Wight and Piers Morgan were taking Lawro apart on Twitter last night. The rumour is though that Lineker wants his little clique around him on the Beeb or he is off to Sky.

[Zaretsky]

They've just slipped past the point where they can relate to the players and the game they're watching. Neither man has been employed by a club for what 20 years? That's what makes Neville so interesting in that you know he's been there and done it against most of the guys he's commenting on.

I'd understand it if Lawro and Hansen were both real scholars of the game, constantly watching foreign football, engaging with viewers/listeners online and popping up with analysis during the week, but at this point what are they other than guys that played at the top level 25 years ago that watch a bit of football?

I do wonder what they do to justify their wages apart from the actual filming. I genuinely think Lawrenson goes straight to the golf course after filming and sees MOTD as some kind of rightful inheritance for his time in football.

[Handsome Man]

Lineker isn't stupid: he must know that Lawrenson isn't doing him any good at the moment.

Has Lawrenson got lifestyle or health issues at the moment? He was a bit wierd yesterday, and certainly not his normal self.

[Zaretsky]

B. Learn how to pronounce foreign players names properly, it really isn't difficult.

This. I obviously hear it when they are using (for example) German names but is 'Cesare' really pronounced the way it was on the BBC tonight? Chey-ser-ray?

I both agree and disagree.

Commentators trying to pronounce a name as if they were a native speaker (as the BBC especially is trying to do now) is just f*cking stupid.

Example: part way through the season for every BBC commentator, Villa-Boas went from "vi-yas bo-as" to "vi-yash bo-ash"...... which universally sounded f*cking stupid from everyone. Everyone has an accent of some sort, accept it FFS.

You wouldnt expect a spanish commentator to say "John Madejski" with a Reading accent, so why should anyone feel compelled to attempt the same. They will always b*lls it up anyway, as the pronunciation will never satisfy everyone

It's not about putting on an accent, it's about pronunciation, which most of the time isn't affected by accent as such - regional variation in pronunciation isn't strictly an accent. It annoys me the other way as well e.g. when the Spanish call it Aston Vi-ya.

The errors I counted last night:
David Villa ('Villa' in place of 'Vi-ya')
Vicente del Bosque ('Vi-chen-tay' in place of 'vi-sen-tay')
Xavi/Xabi Alonso ('dz-avi'/'ch-avi' in place of 'sh-avi')
Pirlo ('Per-lo' in place of 'peer-lo')

They get Sergio wrong but it uses a sound that isn't in an English phonic so is forgivable (same with the lisping on 'Vicente' but there's a legitimate replacement 's')

[Wimb]

Last night was just awful - aren't co commentators supposed to be there to add helpful insight around tactics and the the real nitty gritty of the game as it progresses?

He was just lining up his next inane joke, if we want a comedian in the comentry box thats fine, get one in but this guy is really taking the piss now and I just can't listen to him anymore. I ended up turning the volume down and listening to it on talksport.

Surely the BBC would have noticed and been a bit red faced about it and do something about it?

He offers no insight at all.

Highlight was him talking about how he had money on Torres to win the golden boot

[Handsome Man]

The errors I counted last night:
David Villa ('Villa' in place of 'Vi-ya')
Vicente del Bosque ('Vi-chen-tay' in place of 'vi-sen-tay')
Xavi/Xabi Alonso ('dz-avi'/'ch-avi' in place of 'sh-avi')
Pirlo ('Per-lo' in place of 'peer-lo')

They get Sergio wrong but it uses a sound that isn't in an English phonic so is forgivable (same with the lisping on 'Vicente' but there's a legitimate replacement 's')

None of the last few are errors.

Many English words and commonish names (my own and David Bowie's, for eg) can be pronounced in different ways. You really are being tremendously pedantic if you expect others to conform to your precise template of how these foreign names should sound.

[southbank1871]

This is Dirk you're talking to.

[paultheroyal]

Lawro used to work well with Alan Green on FiveLive, but his co-commentary has been in serious decline for the last 18 months. Last night was the final straw. On a couple of occasions he answered Guy Mowbray's fairly intelligent questions with either 'yeah or na' and also used 'flippin-heck' twice.

Agree on Lee Dixon and Danny Mills. Even Mark Bright is better than Lawro. I noticed that Ian Wight and Piers Morgan were taking Lawro apart on Twitter last night. The rumour is though that Lineker wants his little clique around him on the Beeb or he is off to Sky.

I am convinced Sky are waiting for their moment. Since the Gray / Keys debacle their lineup always have "a temporary" look about it.

[LUX]

hey, have you noticed how Pirlo goes well with peerless?

baines mode on/

If only someone had used that this past week.

/baines mode off

[tulip]

B. Learn how to pronounce foreign players names properly, it really isn't difficult.

This. I obviously hear it when they are using (for example) German names but is 'Cesare' really pronounced the way it was on the BBC tonight? Chey-ser-ray?

I both agree and disagree.

Commentators trying to pronounce a name as if they were a native speaker (as the BBC especially is trying to do now) is just f*cking stupid.

Example: part way through the season for every BBC commentator, Villa-Boas went from "vi-yas bo-as" to "vi-yash bo-ash"...... which universally sounded f*cking stupid from everyone. Everyone has an accent of some sort, accept it FFS.

You wouldnt expect a spanish commentator to say "John Madejski" with a Reading accent, so why should anyone feel compelled to attempt the same. They will always b*lls it up anyway, as the pronunciation will never satisfy everyone

Totally disagree with you. It would be very disrespectful to not at least try to pronounce someone's name correctly. The fact that ll and s are pronounced differently in Spanish & Portuguese is a fact. To continue to pronounce them wrongly incredibly rude. If it bothers you that much don't listen to the commentary.

[tulip]

Commentators shouldn't try at all to pronounce the foreign names. It is unnecessary, and getting them half right is worse than just using some kind of flat English pronunciation. Saying Rail Madrid is quite enough. As soon as s sounds become sh, it all gets silly.

That's nonsense. It's not even about accent, but how you pronounce a certain letter in some languages.

Maybe you rather talk about Peter Ketch in goal for Chelsea, pronounce the "j" as an English J in Arjen Robben, and get ready to cheer on Jimmy Keeb for Reading next season, but it'd make you look a bit stupid.


the only thing I would say is if you have an awkward pronunciation to learn, make sure you've learned it before using it, so you don't sound like a five year old reading off flash cards.

This^^^^^^

[Silver Fox]

Highlight was him talking about how he had money on Torres to win the golden boot

Did Mowbray deliberately get him excited by saying that Torres had claimed it outright, which would obviously be the competition rules and not the bookies rules?

BTW anyone who thinks the BBC aren't fully behind the alleged comedy commentary style only has to listen to Andrew Castle on the tennis, institutionally unfunny

[Zaretsky]

The errors I counted last night:
David Villa ('Villa' in place of 'Vi-ya')
Vicente del Bosque ('Vi-chen-tay' in place of 'vi-sen-tay')
Xavi/Xabi Alonso ('dz-avi'/'ch-avi' in place of 'sh-avi')
Pirlo ('Per-lo' in place of 'peer-lo')

They get Sergio wrong but it uses a sound that isn't in an English phonic so is forgivable (same with the lisping on 'Vicente' but there's a legitimate replacement 's')

None of the last few are errors.

Many English words and commonish names (my own and David Bowie's, for eg) can be pronounced in different ways. You really are being tremendously pedantic if you expect others to conform to your precise template of how these foreign names should sound.

The only non-error is Villa - because there are several ways to pronounce 'll' in Spanish. But we agree it isn't pronounced Dovad Booway, right? The others are all errors because there is no way in which a native-speaker would be pronouncing it like that. If there's the phonic in your language, use it and use it as accurately as possible (and consistently).

[pea]

Names are the least of their problems, Mowbray said that Xavi was "in a great possession to shoot" at one point

[LUX]

haven't read all of this, but how should a commentator say "Paris", then.

"Paree"? (ie to rhyme with tree)

It's how the French say it and we have those two phonics in our language.

[Zaretsky]

haven't read all of this, but how should a commentator say "Paris", then.

"Paree"? (ie to rhyme with tree)

It's how the French say it and we have those two phonics in our language.

We just happen to have left the spelling the same for the English version (unlike Venice, Milan, Turin, Florence, Naples, The Hague to name a few). Don't you think Nice is nice this time of year?

[LUX]

yes, but you did not answer the question.

In English, we say Paris to rhyme with Harris. Is that acceptable by your criteria?

[tulip]

yes, but you did not answer the question.

In English, we say Paris to rhyme with Harris. Is that acceptable by your criteria?

I would say that it depends on the context. If it was a part of a general conversation in English then the English pronunciation of Paris would be acceptable.

If talking about someone's name then not.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

yes, but you did not answer the question.

In English, we say Paris to rhyme with Harris. Is that acceptable by your criteria?

Paris is what the city is officially called in the English language, rather than a mispronunciation. It is just the same as calling Roma "Rome" or Moskva "Moscow", even if the spelling hasn't changed.

There is no official English way to pronounce Jimmy Kebe, which is why we don't call him Jimmy Keeb or keebee.

How do you pronounce Ibiza or Majorca?

[LUX]

eyebeetha and ma-yorker