European Leagues Thread 2012/2013

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prostak
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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by prostak » 03 Apr 2011 00:28

This second half of St Pauli's season must surely have a soundtrack by the Dirty Three. The Asamoah thing is the funny side. Everything else is harder to laugh off.

Over this past week, former player Rene Schnitzler was banned and fined €100.000 for match-fixing which occured during his time at Millerntor. Then, coach Holger Stanislawski, who played in the last Pauli team to reach the Bundesliga (2001's Weltpokalsiegerbesiegern), has once again refused to commit himself to the club for next season after attracting interest from Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg among others. His contract technically expires in summer 2012, but has a buy-out clause and the Talented Young Manager (© Football Manager) looks set to join the aforementioned musical chairs game in June.

As for the abandoned game, it's hard to say. Only seven games have been abandoned mid-play in the entire league history, and these were generally due to weather conditions, with two exceptions: one was for broken goalpoasts, with only one being for crowd violence. That was in 1976, when Kaiserslauten fans also threw bottles onto the pitch, again in the closing stages of a 0-2 defeat. Unfortunately, I can't find mention of what sanctions they faced beyond opponents Fortuna Düsseldorf being awarded a win by default - anyone with better German is welcome to delve into the archives. This time, the DFB are hinting at a serious reprimand, though it remains to be seen whether this would be a fine or a season-ending points penalty. Either way, this has placed an extremely sour note into a season where Pauli had won at least the goodwill of most neutrals, and given the scenes from the end of the game (see below - that's sub keeper Benedikt Pliquett with the wagging finger, who earlier in the season had been involved in a fight against some HSV thugs), could be the crucial blow to the team's morale that sees the quest for survival peter out.


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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by Starfish » 03 Apr 2011 10:09

1976 is a bit too long ago for it to be taken as an example, I would imagine. In the 2003/2004 season, a game was abandoned in the second division between (how else would I remember it so clearly) Aachen and Nürnberg. Aachen were winning the game and when Wolfgang Wolf (then Nürnberg coach) protested about something, the home fans pelted him with coins and so on. He was struck by a few of these missiles, claimed injury, the teams were taken off the pitch and that was that. No one in Nürnberg thinks there was very much wrong with Wolf, by the way.

Anyway, as far as I remember, the game was simply replayed, albeit behind closed doors (Aachen won), Aachen had to pay some money, and that was more or less it. This was the second division of course, but the game was the Monday night live game and I am not sure if the DFB really knew what to do then. But I would be very surprised (and am prepared to be) if Pauli were punished with a points reduction or some such. The game will be awarded to Scheiße 04, Pauli will have to pay a nominal fine and it will be forgotten about. The way they might try to really punish the Pauli fans is by refusing to allow them to bring away fans to some games or to play the next home games behind closed doors - I can imagine that.

Pauli still to go down though, and automatically - although their fans here fill blogs with 'we had 'Chancen ohne Ende' usw., they have been very very poor of late. As I wrote elsewhere, they offered the worst performance from any visiting team to Nürnberg that I have seen for some time.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by Starfish » 10 Apr 2011 11:03

German papers reporting that van Gaal has been sacked.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by sandman » 10 Apr 2011 12:19

A weakened Madrid (if you call replacing Ronaldo in the starting line-up with Kaka weakening) beat Athletic 3-0 thanks to 2 penalties from Kaka the first cgiven away by Athletic keeper Iraizoz running out like an escaped mental patient, the second from a push on Di Maria who never needs an excuse to fall over and a great solo effort from Ronaldo.

Bottom club Almeria did something really stupid, scoring first against Barca, Barca didn't take too kindly to this and put three past Diego Alves who gave a penalty away for Barca's first (Villa doing a very good Di Maria impersonation) Messi took it and scored. Thiago scored the second with a header (surprising as he makes Jay Tabb look like Andre the Giant).Marcelo Silva hesitated over the ball near Messi (never a good idea) who scored his 47th goal of the season.

Mallorca and Sevilla drew 2-2 in a fiery game not helped by the return of Sevilla manager Manzano to Mallorca. The first goal scored from the games first on target attempt by Mallorca's Ienaga. Sevilla drew level with the days fourth penalty from Negredo. Mallorca responded with a De Guzman 25 yard special before Aoute decided to complete a bad day for all Keepers not called Casillas and drop a ball straight to the feet of Ivan Rakitić who didn't pass up the opportunity.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by handbags_harris » 10 Apr 2011 19:01

About time I gave an Eredivisie update I suppose.

Michel Preud'homme's FC Twente sit atop the table two points ahead of PSV in 2nd, with Ajax a further point behind. Twente are looking a good bet to retain their title, won under the management of Steve McLaren. Pre-winter break form has deserted FC Groningen who have dropped to 6th, having won only four of their eleven matches since, and suffered three hammerings in a row in the process to Roda JC, Feyenoord and Heracles. ADO Den Haag sit 4th, seven points behind Ajax, while AZ sit 5th. At the bottom Willem II's thoroughly miserable season pre-winter hasn't abated a single jot, suffering hammering after hammering. The Tilburg club have conceded 86 goals in 30 games, a little under three goals a game. VVV-Venlo sit above them, while Excelsior's early season form has also deserted them as reality bites, the Rotterdam club sitting in 16th.

Standings after Round 30 (P, W, D, L, Pts, F - A):

1 FC Twente 30 19 7 4 64 57 - 29
2 PSV 30 18 8 4 62 74 - 30
3 Ajax 30 18 7 5 61 61 - 26
4 ADO Den Haag 30 16 6 8 54 59 - 43
5 AZ 30 15 8 7 53 45 - 35
6 FC Groningen 30 15 5 10 50 57 - 47
7 Roda JC Kerkrade 30 12 12 6 48 55 - 42
8 FC Utrecht 30 11 8 11 41 45 - 42
9 Heracles Almelo 30 11 7 12 40 58 - 53
10 NEC 30 9 12 9 39 49 - 50
11 Feyenoord 30 10 7 13 37 41 - 48
12 NAC Breda 30 11 5 14 37 40 - 51
13 sc Heerenveen 30 9 9 12 36 54 - 50
14 De Graafschap 30 8 10 12 34 28 - 48
15 Vitesse 30 8 8 14 32 36 - 50
16 Excelsior 30 7 5 18 26 35 - 59
17 VVV-Venlo 30 5 2 23 17 27 - 66
18 Willem II 30 2 6 22 12 34 - 86

The European qualification structure is slightly convoluted, likewise the relegation/promotion battle to and from the Eerste Divisie, so to give a breakdown on what each position entitles:

1st: Champions League Group Stage
2nd: Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round
3rd: Europa League 3rd Qualifying Round
4th - 7th: Play-off system for the right to enter the Europa League 2nd Qualifying Round. Format is similar to that for promotion in England - 4th v 7th, 5th v 6th over two legs followed by a one-off final.

16th & 17th: An extraordinarily complex playoff system* to determine one of the two promotion and relegation positions. One Eredivisie club plays off against three Eerste Divisie clubs in a group, with the other Eredivisie club playing against another three, with the ultimate winners either gaining promotion in the case of Eerste Divisie clubs, or remaining in the Eredivisie in the case of prevailing Eredivisie clubs.
18th: Automatic relegation to the Eerste Divisie, replaced by the Eerste Divisie Champions.

* To quote Wikipedia which is up to date, this is the promotion/relegation playoff qualification criteria:

"At the end of each season, the champion of the Eerste Divisie is automatically promoted to the Eredivisie. Eight other clubs enter the Nacompetitie, a promotion/relegation playoff that includes the 16th- and 17th-place clubs in the Eredivisie. The following teams qualify for the Nacompetitie:

* The club with the best record in the "first period" of the season (after 8 rounds).
* The club with the best record in the "second period" of the season (rounds 9–16).
* The club with the best record in the "third period" of the season (rounds 17–24).
* The club with the best record in the "fourth period" of the season (rounds 25–32).
* The four remaining spots are filled at the season's end by the highest-placed clubs that have not already earned automatic promotion or qualified for the Nacompetitie.

If the club that wins a period has qualified for the Nacompetitie by winning a previous period, its place is filled by the next-best club in that period that has not already qualified. Usually, the clubs that qualify for the Nacompetitie turn out to be the 2nd- through 9th-placed clubs in the final table. Clubs in the Nacompetitie face each other in a knock-out system with the numbers 16 and 17 of the Eredivisie for two places in next season's Eredivisie."


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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by prostak » 10 Apr 2011 19:07

Starfish German papers reporting that van Gaal has been sacked.


Now official. Seems really strange timing. If they were to sack him, why not after the Champions League exit? Or at Christmas?

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by sandman » 11 Apr 2011 18:02

Valencia beat Villareal 5-0 with two tidy finishes from Soldado two from Juan Mata, the 1st of which finishing off a move that made Barcelona look like a bunch of league 2 cloggers and one from Banega after another flowing move (as the say in a press association match report).

Maradona's son in law aka Sergio "Kun" Aguero scored a brilliant third for Atleti as they beat Sociedad 3-0 Filepe with a well worked goal for the first that included a backheel assist from Diego Costa. Reyes (he once played for a club in London who used to win things) set up Suarez for an easy goal.

Sporting followed up last weeks win against Madrid by beating Osasuna 1-0 with a goal from David Barral

The rest of the games were really boring and weren't on the telly so here are the results (Zaragoza vs Getafe is tonight):
Malaga 0 - 0 Depor
Racing 1- 1 Levante
Hercules 0 - 0 Espanyol

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by RoyalChicagoFC » 11 Apr 2011 19:14

Drilling down a little into some of the preceding...

Saw that PSV had a chance yesterday to draw level with Twente in the Eredivisie table and with a substantial GD margin to put them top as Twente had been held earlier (and in fact the latter needed a late penalty just to get on the board and level scores in their match at home to Roda JC after they'd missed from the spot earlier)

PSV themselves however only managed a 2-all draw with a late leveller in their match at home to Heerenveen that they would finish with ten men as Bouma was sent off nine minutes from time, and thus PSV remain two points back of the leaders with four games to go

Ajax beat Grongingen on Sunday and remain third a point back of PSV on 61, and they host Twente on the season's final matchday --and Ajax should be in possession of a goal-difference edge on the former side if the two finish on level points

I'm backing unofficial RFC sibling club Zaragoza tonite and going forward in their annual battle against the drop

If, as it appears, Barcelona and RM progress to the UCL semis, then we're looking at 4 clásicos upcoming over a span of just 18 days beginning on Saturday:

Sat 16/4 Liga @ RM (KO 2100 GMT)
Wed 20/4 Copa del Rey final (KO 2030 GMT)
Wed 27/4 UEFA Champions League semifinal first leg @ Santiago Bernabéu (KO 1945 GMT)
Tue 3/5 UCL semi second leg @ Camp Nou (KO 1945 GMT)

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by sandman » 12 Apr 2011 19:07

Zaragoza 2 -1 Getafe.


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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by RoyalChicagoFC » 12 Apr 2011 19:28

Yippee, although the Aragon boys did let one in during stoppage time at the end of the first half after going two goals up

Villarreal away up next on Monday for Zaragoza, who would lose head-to-head tiebreakers to both Hercules and Malaga currently below them in the event of a deadlock after 38 matches

Basement side Almeria visit on the following weekend, and that's kind of a must-win, and then away to RM before another vital home match, that one with an Osasuna side also seeking to stay clear of the bottom three these days

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by Starfish » 01 May 2011 13:41

Dortmund won their 7th Bundesliga title yesterday beating Nuremberg 2-0 - Leverkusen (Neverkusen) lost away to Cologne and that's that. With Hannover losing to Gladbach, it now looks as though Bayern will end up sneaking third place and CL qualification.


At the bottom, the misery continues for St. Pauli who are looking pretty certain to go down with two games left. Gladbach are somehow still in with a chance of staying up though - they are only 2 points behind Frankfurt in 16th, whose form is among the worst in the league. 16th (criminally, in my opinion) is a relegation play-off against the team in third in the second league - either Bochum or Fürth (Nuremberg's local rivals who, oddly enough, have finished in 5th place in 7 of the last 10 seasons!).

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by handbags_harris » 03 May 2011 17:43

The penultimate weekend has just been and gone in the Eredivisie and last weekend's defeat for PSV at Feyenoord was catastrophic to their chances of winning the league. The defeat left the Eindhoven club three points behind both FC Twente and Ajax. With Ajax and FC Twente playing each other at the Amsterdam Arena on the final day, PSV were looking for both their title rivals to lose and PSV win. Unfortunately for them, it didn't happen.

All games for the final two weeks kick off at the same time in the Eredivisie to ensure fairness. This weekend's results:

PSV 2-1 Vitesse
NAC Breda 1-2 Heracles
AZ 5-1 De Graafschap
Excelsior 3-1 FC Utrecht
NEC 5-0 Roda JC
VVV-Venlo 3-2 Feyenoord
FC Twente 4-0 Willem II
ADO Den Haag 2-4 FC Groningen
sc Heerenveen 1-2 Ajax

Standings (P, W, D, L, Pts, F-A)

1 FC Twente 33 21 8 4 71 64 - 31
2 Ajax 33 21 7 5 70 69 - 29
3 PSV 33 20 8 5 68 79 - 34
4 AZ 33 17 8 8 59 54 - 39
5 FC Groningen 33 17 5 11 56 65 - 52
6 Roda JC Kerkrade 33 14 12 7 54 65 - 50
7 ADO Den Haag 33 16 6 11 54 63 - 52
8 Heracles Almelo 33 13 7 13 46 62 - 56
9 FC Utrecht 33 12 8 13 44 50 - 50
10 Feyenoord 33 12 7 14 43 52 - 53
11 NEC 33 10 12 11 42 56 - 55
12 sc Heerenveen 33 10 10 13 40 60 - 54
13 NAC Breda 33 11 5 17 37 43 - 60
14 Vitesse 33 9 8 16 35 41 - 57
15 De Graafschap 33 8 11 14 35 30 - 56
16 Excelsior 33 9 5 19 32 41 - 65
17 VVV-Venlo 33 6 3 24 21 34 - 75
18 Willem II 33 3 6 24 15 37 - 97

So with one game left we have a title decider to come, with FC Twente travelling to Amsterdam. PSV travel to 5th placed FC Groningen who will be looking to consolidate their position in the Europa League playoffs (contested between positions 4-7). The Europa League playoffs are already decided, with AZ, FC Groningen, Roda JC and ADO Den Haag competing.

At the bottom Willem II are long gone, their nightmare season almost complete with the visit of NAC Breda. With only 15 points and 97 goals conceded, they are by far the worst team and deservedly go down. VVV-Venlo are definately playing in the Nacompetitie (end of season relegation/promotion playoffs from the Eerste Divisie) and complete their regular season at De Graafschap, and the likelihood is that Excelsior will also play in them unless they win at Vitesse Arnhem, and De Graafschap lose to VVV-Venlo.

Promoted to the 11/12 Eredivisie will be 09/10's bottom side RKC Waalwijk or FC Zwolle. RKC sit top by two points with FC Zwolle lying in wait for any slip up. Competing in the Nacompetitie will be:

Eredivisie:
De Graafschap/Excelsior
VVV-Venlo

Eerste Divisie:
RKC Waalwijk/FC Zwolle
Helmond Sport
Veendam
Cambuur
Volendam
Go Ahead Eagles/Den Bosch/Dordrecht
MVV
+1 more as yet undecided, likely to be one of the undecided Eerste Divisie clubs above.

Surprisingly, no Eredivisie matches this weekend. All Round 34 matches will be played 15 May 11.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by PEARCEY » 07 May 2011 22:38

Borussia Monchengladbach win again. The great escape is on.


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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by Starfish » 08 May 2011 10:35

PEARCEY Borussia Monchengladbach win again. The great escape is on.


Unbelievable turnaround - I would so love it if Eintracht Frankfurt went down - their fans deserve it so much.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by prostak » 08 May 2011 17:15

Augsburg coming up, too - that should make you happy, Starfish?

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2009/20010

by Starfish » 08 May 2011 17:24

Starfish And I think I sincerely hate FCA now (I am sincerely drunk). Play-Off for the first league (for the first time in goD knows only how long for Augsburg), a Bank Holiday and they sold 2000 of their 5000 allocation. And Augsburg is 60 minutes drive from here. A city with twice the population of Reading and I have no longer a decent word for them - I stood among them (the only ticket I could get) and they 'grumbled'.


prostak - this was from a year ago.

Their attendances have been much better this season and a third (at least - Fürth are still in with a chance) Bavarian team in the first league is good for extra games I might want to see - so, I am not complaining.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by prostak » 08 May 2011 17:31

Ha - had you previously been sympathetic to them? For some reason I remember so.

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2010/20011

by Starfish » 09 May 2011 09:39

Starfish So, I am going to attempt predictions for the Bundesliga this season.

1.BL
1. Bayern
2. Leverkusen
3. Dortmund
4. Schalke 04
5. HSV
6. Wolfsburg

16. Hannover
17. 1.FCN
18. Freiburg

2.BL
1. Hertha
2. Dusseldorf
3. Bochum (to beat Hannover 96 in the play-off)


This wasn't great, was it? The top three picked themselves one might say but my next three were very very wrong - Wolfsburg might still go down automatically. My bottom 3 predictons were my real weakness, however. In 2.Bl, Hertha was the obvious choice, as was a top 3 Bochum but Dusseldorf never really recovered from an awful start. Whatever - at least I didn't tip Middlesborough to win the championship :wink:

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2009/20010

by Wax Jacket » 09 May 2011 12:16

Starfish
Starfish And I think I sincerely hate FCA now (I am sincerely drunk). Play-Off for the first league (for the first time in goD knows only how long for Augsburg), a Bank Holiday and they sold 2000 of their 5000 allocation. And Augsburg is 60 minutes drive from here. A city with twice the population of Reading and I have no longer a decent word for them - I stood among them (the only ticket I could get) and they 'grumbled'.


prostak - this was from a year ago.

Their attendances have been much better this season and a third (at least - Fürth are still in with a chance) Bavarian team in the first league is good for extra games I might want to see - so, I am not complaining.


IIRC Alan Partiridge's Mrs is doing a year abroad in Augsburg

oh and wikipedia reports Augsburg's population is 30,000 more than the Ding

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Re: European Leagues Thread 2009/20010

by Starfish » 09 May 2011 13:46

Wax Jacket oh and wikipedia reports Augsburg's population is 30,000 more than the Ding


I hadn't realised there were so many people living in Reading, to be honest. On German Wiki, it says 140,000 or something.

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