Some background about Hoffenheim

[Svlad Cjelli]

As you may know, there are numerous rules in the Bundesliga which make it arguably the best league in the world. The most important of these is that every club must hold a licence to compete, which is issued annually after submission of their finances for the season - also tied up with this is the ownership requirement called 50+1, which says that the members (supporters) of every club must own 50% of the shares plus 1. This stops the "sugar-daddy" ownership model, where an Abramovich or whoever can come in and take over the club. (Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen are exceptions to this, as they are long-term "company-owned teams.)

So when I was looking at Hoffenheim in the wake of Gylfi's sale, I came across some interesting facts that seemed to fly in the face of these rules, and I've since spoken to some German football contacts to find out more.

To all intents and purposes, Hoffenheim is owned and run by Dietmar Hopp, a long-term supporter, and it his his money that has allowed them to rise from the semi-pro Tier 3 to the Bundesliga (and UEFA Cup qualification in not much over). And he's done this by finding an ingenious loophole in the rules. The Bundesliga are trying to plug the loophole but haven't found a way to yet.

Although the rules say that Hoffenheim must be owned at least 50% by the members, this rule isn't being broken - it certainly is "owned" by the members. Having said that, there are only about 3,500 members - a massively small number by Bundesliga standards. But teh definition of which members are allowed to vote is something that is not specified in the Bundesliga rules, and Hoffenheim have a rule in place that says you can only vote if you've been a member of the club <b>AND</b> employed by them for 5 years which makes the electorate a single-figure number!

The financial governance regulations also say that clubs can't go into debt, an this is where there is a difference to England. Although Dietmar Hopp has pumped over 200M Euros into the team, the regulations say that this cannot be debt (i.e. loans) - he's had to irrevocably donate this money to them. So they have the money and it can't be taken away.

However, they're totally dependant upon Hopp - their budget assumes he'll give and keep giving, and if he died or lost interest they'd be stuffed. It's a very interesting parallel with Gretna (in fact, the village of Hoffenheim has a population of 3,200 odd - which is only about 500 more than the population of Gretna) - and there are all sorts of parallels, so I fear for Hoffenhiem's future if anything happens to Hopp. We all know what happened to Gretna and where they are now!

They have a 30,000 seater stadium which is apparently never full, and which also has the worst atmosphere in the Bundesliga, and the club is pretty much hated by everyone - think of a cross between "ChelSki" and Mk Dons and you'll be close (they're contemptuously known as "Hoppenheim" or "E18.99 Hoffenheim").

Still, we have our money off them up front, which is a brilliant deal, so that doesn't affect us too much now, so good luck Gylfi - and what I've learnt from all of this is that no matter what the regulation, there's always someone who will want to do things a different way and find a loophole - also that the German financial model isn't quite as perfect as many believe it is.

[Row Z Royal]

GF

[Stuffed Crust Pizza]

Excellent post and some very interesting information, thanks for sharing. I took great interest in Hoffenheim when they first won promotion to Bundesiga 1 a few years ago, while I had Setanta TV's coverage. As much as I agree to some extent that they have bought their success, it'll be good if they can stick it to the European big guns soon!

[Percy's Rocket]

I hope we find a Hopp I'll get me coat.

[Pablo]

In their last home game they had a full house: 30.150

[loyalroyal4life]

Thanks for the post, very interesting

[FiNeRaIn]

So in other words, they are similar to Reading FC except they actually invested sensibly when they were promoted and reaped the rewards?

Interesting.

[Rawlie19]

So in other words, they are similar to Reading FC except they actually invested sensibly when they were promoted and reaped the rewards?

Interesting.

In what way are they similar to Reading FC??? I knew clicking on "Display this post" was a mistake

[Millsy]

Thanks for the interesting post mate but as RZR says belongs in General Football.

[Big Foot]

It's a very interesting parallel with Gretna

It's not interesting whatsoever

[Svlad Cjelli]

I posted it because BrendyWendy raised the query about German ownership models and Hoffenheim in particular.

I'd suggest it's relevant here because 95% of posts here at the moment seem to be discussing the relative merits of investment/throwing money at the club (depending on your viewpoint.)

Gretna and potentially Hoffenheim are relevant here because they are the extreme of what some are calling for - unlimited income given or lent - which leaves a club so vulnerable if the benefactor dies or loses interest.

[Big Foot]

I posted it because BrendyWendy raised the query about German ownership models and Hoffenheim in particular.

I'd suggest it's relevant here because 95% of posts here at the moment seem to be discussing the relative merits of investment/throwing money at the club (depending on your viewpoint.)

Gretna and potentially Hoffenheim are relevant here because they are the extreme of what some are calling for - unlimited income given or lent - which leaves a club so vulnerable if the benefactor dies or loses interest.

For every Gretna and Hoffenheim, there's a United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Pompey, Cardiff or Palace etc...

Srsly, save your fingers and don't post anymore as it's much too sensible

[marcusopp]

I posted it because BrendyWendy raised the query about German ownership models and Hoffenheim in particular.

I'd suggest it's relevant here because 95% of posts here at the moment seem to be discussing the relative merits of investment/throwing money at the club (depending on your viewpoint.)

Gretna and potentially Hoffenheim are relevant here because they are the extreme of what some are calling for - unlimited income given or lent - which leaves a club so vulnerable if the benefactor dies or loses interest.

We have a Reading fan chairman, but i believe he's set things up so we're financially sound, especially in comparison to TSG and Gretna. Not everyone can win the league, someone has to come mid-table, that's us for now, could be better, could be worse.

[pea]

Good post, I did question how accurate it would be when you started it off trying to talk about Hoffenheim and claim that German regulations prevented a 'sugar-daddy' model as they're up there with the worst of the sugar-daddy clubs! But you made it make sense

[prostak]

Hai gaiz, you know there's a 'European Leagues' thread for this and related self-pity over the sale of Reading's former best player.

[Pseud O'Nym]

I posted it because BrendyWendy raised the query about German ownership models and Hoffenheim in particular.

I'd suggest it's relevant here because 95% of posts here at the moment seem to be discussing the relative merits of investment/throwing money at the club (depending on your viewpoint.)

Gretna and potentially Hoffenheim are relevant here because they are the extreme of what some are calling for - unlimited income given or lent - which leaves a club so vulnerable if the benefactor dies or loses interest.

For every Gretna and Hoffenheim, there's a United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Pompey, Cardiff or Palace etc...

Srsly, save your fingers and don't post anymore as it's much too sensible

At least he's stopped hiding behind a silly false name.

[roadrunner]

When you look at their stadium you know who they are and when they were founded. When you look at ours you know who the chairman is.



Safe standing. Jealous.

[Royal With Cheese]

When you look at their stadium you know who they are and when they were founded. When you look at ours you know who the chairman is.



Safe standing. Jealous.

Yes - some wrote a bit back in the thread about us have a Reading fan as a chairman.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

[Handsome Man]

My German colleague said they were like Man City, but as if the Man City owner had took over Cambridge. Even then the town of Hoffenheim only has a population of 3000. He then showed me a video of the abuse that Dortmund gave the Hoffenheim fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABgTQK0KGHw&feature=related
This is what Reading fans want?

Basically, in the same way as Robert Redford paid $1 million dollars for Demi Moore in Indecent Proposal, a rich man has paid £7 million to steal our Gylfi to use as his plaything.

[Silver Fox]

As you may know, there are numerous rules in the Bundesliga which make it arguably the best league in the world. The most important of these is that every club must hold a licence to compete.

I thought the most important thing was that they had safe standing areas?