Potential New Owners

[Linden Jones' Tash]

...

[WestYorksRoyal]

"Our academy is a nice to have for a team that wants to be Championship and financially sustainable."

And herein is the issue IMHO.

The Championship is not a financially sustainable league - the figures have been posted on here innumerable times.

Clubs run at a loss in order to survive or compete..

The levels of player wages are incompatible with revenue streams generated by most clubs.

Until people recognise that you cannot run a football club in the championship without a backer/sugar daddy, these discussions will keep doing round in circles...

The Academy can make us sustainable. Imagine we got good fees for Olise, Richards & Loader. We'd be looking at over £30m. Plus the players cost no fee and will be on low wages when they break through. Not only can they make a Championship club sustainable, they can be the differential that allows one to punch above their weight.

But agree with the general Championship sustainability point - to compete near the top sustainably we'd need about £15m transfer revenue a year to cover operating losses, which is a risky model given you can't bank on having that level of talent year on year. We get an Olise or Sigurdsson about once a decade.

A new owner could easily get us out of L1 simply by running us competently, but the "then what?" question is a legitimate concern.

[Snowflake Royal]

"Our academy is a nice to have for a team that wants to be Championship and financially sustainable."

And herein is the issue IMHO.

The Championship is not a financially sustainable league - the figures have been posted on here innumerable times.

Clubs run at a loss in order to survive or compete..

The levels of player wages are incompatible with revenue streams generated by most clubs.

Until people recognise that you cannot run a football club in the championship without a backer/sugar daddy, these discussions will keep doing round in circles...

Clubs can do it. They're few and far between though, because the Championship is full of Ex-PL basketcases trying to buy their way out of trouble with money they don't have.

We've done it in the past. Brentford did it. Huddersfield did it for a while. Norwich too.

[Royal_jimmy]

The following article in the Guardian today is related to this:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -new-world

Chelsea are obviously on a different scale - but the argument is similar, i.e. the venture capitalists think that football clubs are currently undervalued and have not exhausted their commercial assets enough ... I can see that in the Premier League, not so much in League 1 ...

Yep. In League 1 the amount of money you can make is basically how much money can you extract from about 15,000 who live in RG post codes and dont support a London team.

You might be able to get some capital appreciation by buying a L1 team and selling a PL team, but why choose Reading to do that. You could achieve it with more ease at other bigger clubs with bigger fanbases to monetise.

Despite Reading's favourable geographic location, its actually a hindrance. We're competing with every London team for fans. All of whom are bigger attractions. If i was a rich foreign investor looking for a Southern team I'd be looking much more favourably at Cardiff or Bristol City.

The only money you could make out of Reading is getting them to PL. And frankly there are 24 teams closer to the PL for the next 12 months at least who would be better bets.

We're 1 of the biggest clubs in league one and have 1 of the biggest fan bases at this level. No idea why you say that. We get double or more the home gate than quite a few clubs in the league (the likes of Burton, Fleetwood, Northampton, Stevenage and Cambridge)

Agree that Bristol City for example have a lot of potential, is one of the country's biggest cities for population and has a big catchment area with only Bristol Rovers to compete with. There's a hell of a lot of pull about Reading though. Got a huge financial/tech sector so there'll be lots of entrepreneurs with a connection to here.

[NathStPaul]

We don't have one of the biggest fanbases at this level, quite far from it in fact.

[Royal_jimmy]

But a lot of the infrastructure is already at the club - the amount of investment required to get us up the leagues is not great when we have the SCL, Bearwood and a Category 1 academy. Not to mention good people at the Club - imagine what Bowen, Selles and Carey could achieve if they weren't held back by off field issues.

In terms of other options in L1 and L2, many recent PL clubs have similar geographical issues. Bolton, Blackpool and Wigan competing with bigger Lancashire clubs and in Wigan's case rugby. Charlton are another London club competing with bigger ones. Derby would be attractive but have new owners and would definitively not be for sale.

Pompey have a higher ceiling than us but are still playing at that shit hole Fratton Park, where they are never likely to realise their potential. Perhaps Cambridge has potential if you build it bottom up, but they are miles off and that would be a monster project. Ditto Oxford. In L2, you have Bradford who have punched below their weight.

And then L1 and L2 are largely comprised of small towns with populations too small to be higher end Championship sides.

So if you want an undervalued option with the potential to climb the leagues, nobody available comes close to us right now. Championship clubs are more expensive, whereas we should be in bargain territory.

And while we don't have a "hardcore" base, recent history shows you can sell out every week if the team is good.

Stadium is below average in the Championship.

The Academy while impressive is a few buildings on some land. You could recreate in its entirety elsewhere within 18 months construction time. And if you really wanted to you could recruit the entire set up staff wise with improved pay offers.

So it'd make a lot more sense to buy any of the below, as you can achieve the same thing as you have at Reading but without the risk of being stuck in League 1.

Birmingham City
Bristol City
Cardiff City
Coventry City
Norwich City
Sheffield Wednesday
Sunderland
Watford

I dont think Bowen is an impressive DoF. He was Director of Football in charge when we signed the players that ruined us financially. He's much like any other. Selles is a manager who lost 12 / 14 when in charge of Southampton.

The only thing that makes Reading attractive is Cat 1 academy and its not that hard for a committed club to recreate it if they want to.

2 things.

Firstly, all those clubs would cost more than Reading given they're in the Championship. Obviously us being in L1 is a risk, but it's also an opportunity as it makes us cheaper. Of the ones listed, Norwich, Sunderland, Coventry and possibly Wednesday are bigger than us and could more easily sustain PL football, but the rest simply have a head start which is short term in nature.

I also think you're massively underselling how impressive our academy is. We have built a rich tradition going back to the Dolan era of producing talent for the Championship and occasionally PL. The shame is that we've lost our way in maximising their impact on the pitch and transfer revenue, but even allowing for this we avoided relegation under Dai for 5 years partially due to contributions from the likes of Rinomhota, Richards, Olise, McIntyre and Holmes. The idea you can just throw a bit of money at another club and replicate it is fanciful. You need to invest in the physical facilities, build the right recruitment and coaching teams and even then you're looking at least 5 years until it starts to bear fruit and produce players.

+1 but I will add the following points.

The academy being replicated in 18 months is a load of rubbish. It took years of hard work to get our academy where it is. It takes years of planning as an academy management in getting a playing style, getting scouts in the community etc. I think you under-estimate how hard it is and how much money is required to build an academy, especially with a club on our income. Man City could do it more quickly due to their pull of hiring brilliant coaches and money. Whereas our money is more limited to invest into it.

As for our stadium being 'below average' for the championship. That's a bit harsh. We have had planning permission to expand to 38,000 and we can easily get that again. Our ground is about average I'd say. Most championship clubs have 22-30k stadiums.

Why blame Bowen for the signings? By the sounds of it Dai was being the dictator and overriding who was joining us. Bowen wanted to sell Moore but Dai said no.

[Royal_jimmy]

We don't have one of the biggest fanbases at this level, quite far from it in fact.

Derby, Portsmouth, Bolton and maybe Charlton have bigger fan bases. Who else?

[NathStPaul]

"Maybe Charlton"

[Royal_jimmy]

and the point is? think my argument stands there

[Hound]

Which players did Bowen as DOF sign that ruined us?

[Snowflake Royal]

We don't have one of the biggest fanbases at this level, quite far from it in fact.

We're in the top 6.

[Snowflake Royal]

GWL is a bit of a clown tbf.

[Greatwesternline]

Which players did Bowen as DOF sign that ruined us?

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

[Snowflake Royal]

Which players did Bowen as DOF sign that ruined us?

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

[WestYorksRoyal]

GWL is a bit of a clown tbf.

Yeh. I don't block anyone, but I do have a mental list of those I choose not to engage with which he is on.

[Hound]

Which players did Bowen as DOF sign that ruined us?

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

Was just from beginning of last season wasn’t it?

And lolz at that patronising GWL post

[Greatwesternline]

Which players did Bowen as DOF sign that ruined us?

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

What do you think he did in the those roles? If nothing related to transfers, what was his salary for?

[Snowflake Royal]

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

Was just from beginning of last season wasn’t it?

And lolz at that patronising GWL post

I'm not sure we really know what his role was in the 3/4 months between stopping being Gomes consultant and being manager.

And obviously a manager has some responsibility for signings, but at most we're talking 1 summer for Gomes and 1 Jan as manager until he came back.

Last summer we were dredging the bottom. This summer looks pretty good.


I hope GWL's better at his job with Parliamentary Committees. His RFC contributions are worse than his AE ones

[Snowflake Royal]

Go on transfermarkt.co.uk and then filter for every player signed by Reading since 2019 when he was DoF.

It won't take you long.

You'll get a list of about 40 footballers. Free to take your pick from those really.

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

What do you think he did in the those roles? If nothing related to transfers, what was his salary for?

Well for about a year he managed Wimbledon you clown.

[Hound]

You know he wasn't DoF until he came back recently right?

He left us for over a year. For almost a year before that he was manager. Prior to that he had some Sports director role and before that he was a consultant to support Gomes.

Was just from beginning of last season wasn’t it?

And lolz at that patronising GWL post

I'm not sure we really know what his role was in the 3/4 months between stopping being Gomes consultant and being manager.

And obviously a manager has some responsibility for signings, but at most we're talking 1 summer for Gomes and 1 Jan as manager until he came back.

Last summer we were dredging the bottom. This summer looks pretty good.


I hope GWL's better at his job with Parliamentary Committees. His RFC contributions are worse than his AE ones

Who did we sign when he was manager? Can remember Laurent. Can’t actually think of anyone else - no doubts we were under some sort of embargo