Speculation: Ched Evans, you decide

[Elm Park Pasty]

YateleyRoyal wrote:
Re your first para - I agree with that on the whole. However, the anti-Evans camp keep trotting out the line 'how will his victim feel when they see him?' - well how do the families of those that Hughes and McCormick killed feel?!

Probably the same if not worse, as there is not the outpouring of anger that there has been over Evans. However, I wouldn't be surprised if many people associate them with 'driving deaths' per se, rather than killing someone (sounds stupid I know!!). I think in many people's minds rape would trump an awful lot of other crimes, no matter the seriousness. I also remember reading somewhere that it can be hard to get a conviction on death by dangerous driving, as juries have been known to compare the defendant's driving with their own. CPS apparently far more often go for careless driving, maybe this mentality plays into the reaction too. We give more latitude to Hughes and McCormack because we've driven with the odd pint, or got away with a close shave, rather than Evans who has been guilty of something that most people won't consider at all.

[peterroyal76]

Gulity, although hasnt he already done his time ...

No he's out on license.

[Norfolk Royal]

What a load of appalling bandwagon jumping and double standards over an admittedly clearly contemptible individual in Ched Evans.

My understanding is such that Jessica Ennis-Hill has a stand named after her in 2012. In 2013 Sheffield United employ a man convicted of sexual assault, Marlon King. In 2014 Sheffield United offer convicted rapist Ched Evans the opportunity to train on a non-contract basis. Ennis-Hill demands that decision be reversed or she will take away her patronage. I feel for the women to be honest, utterly bandwagoned by pronouncements from fellow Sheffield United supporters of a high profile (a namely television presenter and an MP).

Evans has been convicted, spent the custodial part of his sentence and under the HUMAN RIGHTS that liberals stoutly defend he is at liberty to commence employment, subject to certain public protection criteria being satisfied. As Sheffield United as a private company are at liberty to employ who they so choose under the same criteria. As far as I can see, the only public protection issue for a mediocre footballer like Evans is in the crowd being struck by one of his wayward shots on goal. Seems to me that much of the reaction isn’t based on any remote concern for public protection.....more a social injustice that someone convicted of a despicable crime can continue to earn a large wage. In which case, blame our Criminal Justice system and the wonderful Human Rights Acts we are subjected to. Not Evans or Sheffield United.

I don’t buy the role-model BS either. It doesn’t credit young people with much intelligence for one thing. At an impressionable age I loved football probably even more so than I do now, yet my role models were writers or people who impressed me with their knowledge or people who achieved life-changing things. It is entirely possible to want to play football like Wayne Rooney and to realise that effing and blinding at officials such as he does is entirely contemptible. And I am sure that young people realise that off pitch criminal behaviour is equally abhorrent. If they don’t then I rather suspect there are some parenting and educational issues at play somewhere, nurture vs nature and all that.

Complete double standards from liberals, who on the other hand would have you believe that issues such as CSE rings based around Asian men abusing vulnerable young white women are “not a race issue”. They are right.....such things are Religious and cultural issues, although one dare not suggest as such through fear of causing offence. No right-minded person is suggesting that the Muslim community be vilified over this. But you have to admit to problems – however uncomfortable – to be able to embrace solutions. In the Ched Evans case, the uncomfortable ‘problem’ for those vilifying Sheffield United is that Human Rights Act absolutely protect the ‘right to life’ of convicted criminals (as it - almost always imho - should). And it therefore MUST be applied consistently, and not dependent on fame or wealth or otherwise.

You're misrepresenting the position of Ennis-Hill in that post. She is saying she will ask for her name to be removed from the stand if Evans is re-signed. She's not demanding anything.

[sandman]

Blames "Liberals" and then criticises "bandwagon jumpers" the comedy stylings of fLOLoyd_stROFLeete everybody.

He's here every Thursday try not to throw up on the veal.

[Mr Angry]

Evans got 5 Years for rape - in effect, having sex with a girl too drunk to give consent - but rape nonetheless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30040257

"A woman who orchestrated a "revenge rape" on a teenager she told "snitches get stitches" has been jailed.

Aliyah Weekes, 19, instigated a sex attack carried out by her brother in an alleyway on the 15-year-old victim, whom she accused of spreading rumours.

She was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in a young offenders institute for her role in what the Old Bailey judge called a "truly wicked" crime.

Her brother Lacquan Weekes, 18, was detained for five years for rape."

So a guy who forcibly rapes a 15yr old girl gets the same sentence as Evans, whilst I woman who orchestrated the attack, got 6 months less.............

I'm no legal expert, but it does seem to me that either Evans was given a particularly harsh sentence for his crime, or the 2 gang rapists of an underage schoolgirl got treated particularly leniently.

[Norfolk Royal]

Evans got 5 Years for rape - in effect, having sex with a girl too drunk to give consent - but rape nonetheless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30040257

"A woman who orchestrated a "revenge rape" on a teenager she told "snitches get stitches" has been jailed.

Aliyah Weekes, 19, instigated a sex attack carried out by her brother in an alleyway on the 15-year-old victim, whom she accused of spreading rumours.

She was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in a young offenders institute for her role in what the Old Bailey judge called a "truly wicked" crime.

Her brother Lacquan Weekes, 18, was detained for five years for rape."

So a guy who forcibly rapes a 15yr old girl gets the same sentence as Evans, whilst I woman who orchestrated the attack, got 6 months less.............

I'm no legal expert, but it does seem to me that either Evans was given a particularly harsh sentence for his crime, or the 2 gang rapists of an underage schoolgirl got treated particularly leniently.

Although it's not entirely clear from the article I suspect that was a case of forced oral sex which is classed as rape. Whether that would have affected the sentence I'm not clear.

The relatively young age of the defendant would have mitigated the sentence as well.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Whereas at 22(?) Ched Evans was a seasoned veteran of the rape world.

[paultheroyal]

Would I want a convicted rapist within my company, NO.

Would I want a convicted rapist at my football club, NO.

I am sure he can find suitable employment somewhere, just not in football.

[biff]

Surely kicking a piece of plastic between two posts is a quite adequate profession for a (questionably convicted) rapist to walk back into? It requires no moral compass, is based purely on athleticism, and if you are naive enough to think that footballers are anyones rolemodel then youve only yourself to blame. If you dont think that Mr Evans should return to his previous career, then which career would you be happy he started back at? Decorator? Bank teller? Traffic warden? Where do you draw the line?

[Zana Badawi]

What a load of appalling bandwagon jumping and double standards over an admittedly clearly contemptible individual in Ched Evans.

My understanding is such that Jessica Ennis-Hill has a stand named after her in 2012. In 2013 Sheffield United employ a man convicted of sexual assault, Marlon King. In 2014 Sheffield United offer convicted rapist Ched Evans the opportunity to train on a non-contract basis. Ennis-Hill demands that decision be reversed or she will take away her patronage. I feel for the women to be honest, utterly bandwagoned by pronouncements from fellow Sheffield United supporters of a high profile (a namely television presenter and an MP).

Evans has been convicted, spent the custodial part of his sentence and under the HUMAN RIGHTS that liberals stoutly defend he is at liberty to commence employment, subject to certain public protection criteria being satisfied. As Sheffield United as a private company are at liberty to employ who they so choose under the same criteria. As far as I can see, the only public protection issue for a mediocre footballer like Evans is in the crowd being struck by one of his wayward shots on goal. Seems to me that much of the reaction isn’t based on any remote concern for public protection.....more a social injustice that someone convicted of a despicable crime can continue to earn a large wage. In which case, blame our Criminal Justice system and the wonderful Human Rights Acts we are subjected to. Not Evans or Sheffield United.

I don’t buy the role-model BS either. It doesn’t credit young people with much intelligence for one thing. At an impressionable age I loved football probably even more so than I do now, yet my role models were writers or people who impressed me with their knowledge or people who achieved life-changing things. It is entirely possible to want to play football like Wayne Rooney and to realise that effing and blinding at officials such as he does is entirely contemptible. And I am sure that young people realise that off pitch criminal behaviour is equally abhorrent. If they don’t then I rather suspect there are some parenting and educational issues at play somewhere, nurture vs nature and all that.

Complete double standards from liberals, who on the other hand would have you believe that issues such as CSE rings based around Asian men abusing vulnerable young white women are “not a race issue”. They are right.....such things are Religious and cultural issues, although one dare not suggest as such through fear of causing offence. No right-minded person is suggesting that the Muslim community be vilified over this. But you have to admit to problems – however uncomfortable – to be able to embrace solutions. In the Ched Evans case, the uncomfortable ‘problem’ for those vilifying Sheffield United is that Human Rights Act absolutely protect the ‘right to life’ of convicted criminals (as it - almost always imho - should). And it therefore MUST be applied consistently, and not dependent on fame or wealth or otherwise.

How very foil hat. You were actually going quite well until you started throwing around liberals, human rights and muslims (for some reason). As a liberal and somebody who supports human rights a lot more than you do, I absolutely feel Ched Evans should be allowed to seek employment at Sheffield United. The alternative is to allow a witch hunt to dictate our legal system. And its a lazy witch hunt at that - its nothing more than a number of people clicking YES on an e-petition, and saying something trivial and obvious on Facebook or any other social media. Witch Hunts are designed to be distinctly unliberal - i.e. they believe that Ched Evans' punishment wasn't severe enough. But our legal system has been developed through centuries and has been discussed countless times through many modern democracies; we cant just throw that away because of a largely ignorant Facebook mob. Rape is unpleasant, Ched Evans is likely unpleasant (I don't actually know) but we have to trust our system here, because if we want our system to become more punitive based on ignorance, then we aren't very far away from a rabbit hole to a system that history tells us will fail.

In fairness, JEH hasn't done an awful lot wrong. She shouldn't be proud of fuelling a witch hunt, that's for sure , but im pretty sure she isn't doing it for the two day Facebook trend she'll get out of it. The people who shouldn't be getting involved here are Cameron, Clegg and any other MP offering a neat soundbite for a few votes. Its their job to protect our democracy and attend the countless iterations of justice laws - not to just make up laws in a press conference.

Your post, Floyd, is just so weird. The first few paragraphs are so liberal, but your last one is an absolute shambles. Im not sure why youre having a dig at the liberals, they seem to share a lot of your views, except, maybe, the apparent political paranoia. You don't even know who your enemy is - or is it just everybody?

[paultheroyal]

Surely kicking a piece of plastic between two posts is a quite adequate profession for a (questionably convicted) rapist to walk back into? It requires no moral compass, is based purely on athleticism, and if you are naive enough to think that footballers are anyones rolemodel then youve only yourself to blame. If you dont think that Mr Evans should return to his previous career, then which career would you be happy he started back at? Decorator? Bank teller? Traffic warden? Where do you draw the line?

Decorator, cleaner, taxi driver, yeah they are a good start.

You can make a choice then whether you would want to use his services.

Do you expect Rolf Harris to return to television?

[Sutekh]

If Mr Evans they wishes to seek employment as a professional footballer then he can now that in the eyes of the law he has completed his punishment

Any club could therefore employ Mr Evans if it wished

Of course everyone else has the right to their opinion and whether they subsequently continue to support or provide services to any such employer as a result.

Therefore if SUFC wants to employ Mr Evans it should be at liberty do so, but both the club and Mr Evans would have to take all the likely loss of support, finance and criticism that would ensue - so long as that criticism did not transgress the laws of the land.

[paultheroyal]

^^^^

Spot on.

Ultimately, wrongly or tightly public pressure will decide this.

Only hope Evans has got is whether he can overturn the conviction.

[From Despair To Where?]

Decorator, cleaner, taxi driver, yeah they are a good start.

You can make a choice then whether you would want to use his services.

Do you expect Rolf Harris to return to television?

Exactly.

Ok, lets accept that the whole "role model" thing is irrelevant. He is, however, a public figure and as such, engages in his profession in the public arena, with an outreach way beyond the immediate area where he lives or where his employers are based. If you consider that a tv presenter or dj would never work again at the same level, why is it different for a footballer?


Although I'm not sure about the idea of a convicted rapist becoming a taxi driver

[Portsmouth Royal]

If Mr Evans they wishes to seek employment as a professional footballer then he can now that in the eyes of the law he has completed his punishment

Any club could therefore employ Mr Evans if it wished

Of course everyone else has the right to their opinion and whether they subsequently continue to support or provide services to any such employer as a result.

Therefore if SUFC wants to employ Mr Evans it should be at liberty do so, but both the club and Mr Evans would have to take all the likely loss of support, finance and criticism that would ensue - so long as that criticism did not transgress the laws of the land.

Spot on.

If any business wishes to employ this high profile convicted sex offender they are absolutely within their rights to do so. Anyone wishing to boycott, criticise, withdraw support or sponsorship from that business as a result is equally within their rights.

The fact that when Jessica Ennis Hill asked that her name not be associated with a business employing a high profile sex offender she was then targeted with a volley of rape threats from MRA's on twitter according to reports, tells you its a stand that needs to be made.

[JIM]

sorry footballers, however bad at the game are roll models for the younger generation, I dont want to see any copy cat antics . KEEP HIM OUT OF THE BEAUTIFUL GAME,

[Avon Royal]

Evans must be the only rapist in history to have agreed to his victim's request to go down on her before he raped her.

If Hal Robson-Kanu is going to continue controlling the ball with the "touch of a rapist", he could at least make it this one.

[Norfolk Royal]

Whereas at 22(?) Ched Evans was a seasoned veteran of the rape world.

He certainly acted like one.

[Man Friday]

If Mr Evans they wishes to seek employment as a professional footballer then he can now that in the eyes of the law he has completed his punishment

Any club could therefore employ Mr Evans if it wished

Of course everyone else has the right to their opinion and whether they subsequently continue to support or provide services to any such employer as a result.

Therefore if SUFC wants to employ Mr Evans it should be at liberty do so, but both the club and Mr Evans would have to take all the likely loss of support, finance and criticism that would ensue - so long as that criticism did not transgress the laws of the land.

Spot on.

...yes, as a statement of fact. That's all the comments are. They don't offer any opinion on the ethical side of the discussion.

[Ouroboros]

Decorator, cleaner, taxi driver, yeah they are a good start.

You can make a choice then whether you would want to use his services.

Do you expect Rolf Harris to return to television?

Rare 'greed, Paul.

The ever-excitable but but slightly thick always depict issues like this in terms of "he's served his time, now you want to ban him from employment."

Yeah, he served his time. His reward for that is that he's not in prison anymore, not that the rest of the world carries on as if he's not a rapist.

Not many will argue that he should be banned from football, only that it's up to any prospective employer to judge whether the reputational damage is a price worth paying.

Evans has been convicted, spent the custodial part of his sentence and under the HUMAN RIGHTS that liberals stoutly defend he is at liberty to commence employment, subject to certain public protection criteria being satisfied. As Sheffield United as a private company are at liberty to employ who they so choose under the same criteria.

It's not necessary to buy into the dubious idea of footballers as role models to recognise that there are many, many industries where your past criminal behaviour might be an impediment to your career.

Floyd, Sheffield United are still at liberty to employ him. Has that missed you? They're free to do what they want.

Likewise JEH is free to end her association with the club. The presenter is free to quit. The sponsors are free to pull out. Maybe a couple of my workmates will even exercise their freedom not to turn out and cheer a rapist. Maybe not. If not, I'll be free to slag them off if I feel like it. And if I do, you'll be free to call me a liberal human-rights-loving muslim.

Could you explain exactly which of those freedoms you would like to see curtailed?