Rumour - SHunt off

[Barry the bird boggler]

Apparently, Everton's 3.5mil bid was rejected just minutes ago but still plenty of time to go. Be a shame for him to move as he played well on saturday. Also, they still think Kevin Doyle will move to Aston Villa even though shorey thinks he won't:http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=836482

According to the club this "story" was a load of made up bollards, no bid was made for Hunt by Everton. SC says he spoke with David Moyes on Sunday discussing general player availability but no bid was forthcoming for Hunt nor anyone else.

[Kes]

A lot of stories were made up on SSN last night just to keep everyone watching.

[TFF]

It was all made up. Man City didn't really outbid Chelsea for Robinho.

[brendywendy]

what will happen at thend of the season when one of the big 5 doesnt make the champions league

if arsenal dont get champions league theyre pretty fecked-lose even more players, fail to attract new ones of sufficient quality-fall behind on ground repayments, already they survive by buying young gems, developing them and selling them at their peak to bigger clubs
liverpool-financially a bit shakey at the mo, what with the new ground on hold etc-without champions league they would struggle mightily, and lose half their team, and not be able to replace with anywhere near the same quality
man city-im sure the new owners will take not getting 4th this season, but next as well i wouldnt be so sure
and man utd -in debt to the tune of 500+million quid
even chelsea with romans billions would struggle to attract the star names they require to keep filling their ground

even the clubs below the big 5 have spent hugely trying to make it up there


its a house of cards i tell thee

[Old Biscuitman]

what will happen at thend of the season when one of the big 5 doesnt make the champions league

if arsenal dont get champions league theyre pretty fecked-lose even more players, fail to attract new ones of sufficient quality-fall behind on ground repayments, already they survive by buying young gems, developing them and selling them at their peak to bigger clubs
liverpool-financially a bit shakey at the mo, what with the new ground on hold etc-without champions league they would struggle mightily, and lose half their team, and not be able to replace with anywhere near the same quality
man city-im sure the new owners will take not getting 4th this season, but next as well i wouldnt be so sure
and man utd -in debt to the tune of 500+million quid
even chelsea with romans billions would struggle to attract the star names they require to keep filling their ground

even the clubs below the big 5 have spent hugely trying to make it up there


its a house of cards i tell thee

That's why Big John is biding his time. He'll be able to pick up some bargains.

[Royal Rother]

Indeed, what I have been saying for many months. As one of the few clubs not to have stretched its finances to the limit as the recession approaches, we will be exceptionally well placed to mop up the best of the cast-offs that many clubs are going to have to offload when they go bust.

The recklessness of other Chairmen staggers me. This has been in the offing for at least 2 years now - you simply don't expose your Balance Sheet by committing to more and more short and medium term liabilities and huge contractual commitments as hard-times approach. It's a recipe for disaster.

[winchester_royal]

Indeed, what I have been saying for many months. As one of the few clubs not to have stretched its finances to the limit as the recession approaches, we will be exceptionally well placed to mop up the best of the cast-offs that many clubs are going to have to offload when they go bust.

The recklessness of other Chairmen staggers me. This has been in the offing for at least 2 years now - you simply don't expose your Balance Sheet by committing to more and more short and medium term liabilities and huge contractual commitments as hard-times approach. It's a recipe for disaster.

'Greed. Those constantly critiscising JM obviously don't understand how businesses work.

[Royal Rother]

To be fair, I wouldn't be able to contribute anything relevant to a discussion about engines.

The difference being that I wouldn't even bother to offer an opinion.

S'pose I'd better put a

[Southbank Old Boy]

Indeed, what I have been saying for many months. As one of the few clubs not to have stretched its finances to the limit as the recession approaches, we will be exceptionally well placed to mop up the best of the cast-offs that many clubs are going to have to offload when they go bust.

The recklessness of other Chairmen staggers me. This has been in the offing for at least 2 years now - you simply don't expose your Balance Sheet by committing to more and more short and medium term liabilities and huge contractual commitments as hard-times approach. It's a recipe for disaster.

It's been in the offing for much longer than 2 years and we're still not seeing anyone really struggling above us

We've seen a lot of clubs in and around our old stomping grounds hit financial difficulties but I'm not sure it's made a heck of a lot of difference to our success over the years

I'm not sure how you know so much about how far we or other clubs have extended themselves or not though. Are you just assuming a lot like everyone else but coming to slightly different conclusions?

[brendywendy]

it does seem that they must be a little overextended
for lowly clubs such as sunderland to spend tens of millions of pounds without hope of getting the money back, or any real short term success, cannot be sustainable
for middling clubs like villa, spurs, newcastLOLe etc to spend very big, and still not really dent the top four
for the top 4 to be challenged by a fifth club, richer than any of them,
for the one of the 5 who finish 5th and lose the champions league revenue they need to pay for new stadiums etc, and keep their best players
for half the league to be financed by huge debts

its not sustainable IMO
i have no idea why people think the reality of business will simply never kick in, that football is so different it obeys no economic rules and never will.
ill be seriously worried when mr mad sells up, while most of you are dancing in the streets in arabic dress, ill be at home wondering what the future will hold for us.

[Southbank Old Boy]

it does seem that they must be a little overextended
for lowly clubs such as sunderland to spend tens of millions of pounds without hope of getting the money back, or any real short term success, cannot be sustainable
for middling clubs like villa, spurs, newcastLOLe etc to spend very big, and still not really dent the top four
for the top 4 to be challenged by a fifth club, richer than any of them,
for the one of the 5 who finish 5th and lose the champions league revenue they need to pay for new stadiums etc, and keep their best players
for half the league to be financed by huge debts

its not sustainable IMO
i have no idea why people think the reality of business will simply never kick in, that football is so different it obeys no economic rules and never will.
ill be seriously worried when mr mad sells up, while most of you are dancing in the streets in arabic dress, ill be at home wondering what the future will hold for us.

But do they need to be sustainable? How have the transfers etc been funded? Do you know?

The owners/backers in each case don't seem to care about the return on their investment and only want to have a go at gaining some relative success

The only issue is the ability to cover the contracts as and when the money is pulled by the money men. I'd imagine that most of those examples are reasonably capable of off-loading or covering the wage bills

[Royal Rother]

I'm not sure how you know so much about how far we or other clubs have extended themselves or not though. Are you just assuming a lot like everyone else but coming to slightly different conclusions?

I am trained to look at situations in business, armed with some, rarely all, relevant information, and reach a reasonably informed opinion. It's what an accountant does.

On here I like to exaggerate my certainty a bit as it's more fun that way - after all anonymous predictions have no impact on one's professional reputation!

[brendywendy]

it does seem that they must be a little overextended
for lowly clubs such as sunderland to spend tens of millions of pounds without hope of getting the money back, or any real short term success, cannot be sustainable
for middling clubs like villa, spurs, newcastLOLe etc to spend very big, and still not really dent the top four
for the top 4 to be challenged by a fifth club, richer than any of them,
for the one of the 5 who finish 5th and lose the champions league revenue they need to pay for new stadiums etc, and keep their best players
for half the league to be financed by huge debts

its not sustainable IMO
i have no idea why people think the reality of business will simply never kick in, that football is so different it obeys no economic rules and never will.
ill be seriously worried when mr mad sells up, while most of you are dancing in the streets in arabic dress, ill be at home wondering what the future will hold for us.

But do they need to be sustainable? How have the transfers etc been funded? Do you know?

The owners/backers in each case don't seem to care about the return on their investment and only want to have a go at gaining some relative success

The only issue is the ability to cover the contracts as and when the money is pulled by the money men. I'd imagine that most of those examples are reasonably capable of off-loading or covering the wage bills

i agree with abramovich, and the new arabian boys
but to say that all the rest dont want a return on their investment is just wrong
there are a few chairman who are only out to continuously fund the club they love-but theres not many about any more

most are big business men, with people like lerner, glazier, gillette and hicks all about running ruthlessly successful businesses-somehow i dont see any of these people leaving and wiping out any debts. they will sell at a higher price than they bought, and still leave the club finances dependant on huge debts

[Southbank Old Boy]

i agree with abramovich, and the new arabian boys
but to say that all the rest dont want a return on their investment
there are a few chairman who are only out to continuously fund the club they love-but theres not many about any more

most are big business men, with people like lerner, glazier, gillette and hicks all about running ruthlessly successful businesses-somehow i dont see any of these people leaving and wiping out any debts. they will sell at a higher price than they bought, and still leave the club finances dependant on huge debts

The Yanks at Utd and to a lesser degree Liverpool I probably agree, they're more likely to be looking for a return

Lerner, the consortium at Sunderland, Ashley before the penny really dropped, Gaydamac, Gibson and the rest all seem to be reasonably well intentioned and responsible and dont seem to be set on saddling the club with debts they either cant repay or arent interested in having repaid. Only time will tell though

[Dirk Gently]

The key, of course, is unbundling TV rights so that each team can sell their own worldwide rights instead of collectively. Then the money for the big clubs will be potentially unlimited.

[Arch]

Indeed, what I have been saying for many months. As one of the few clubs not to have stretched its finances to the limit as the recession approaches, we will be exceptionally well placed to mop up the best of the cast-offs that many clubs are going to have to offload when they go bust.

The recklessness of other Chairmen staggers me. This has been in the offing for at least 2 years now - you simply don't expose your Balance Sheet by committing to more and more short and medium term liabilities and huge contractual commitments as hard-times approach. It's a recipe for disaster.

This is where papereyes comes in and says "oh dear" and uses this emoticon to add a little extra enigma to his post.

[Stranded]

i agree with abramovich, and the new arabian boys
but to say that all the rest dont want a return on their investment
there are a few chairman who are only out to continuously fund the club they love-but theres not many about any more

most are big business men, with people like lerner, glazier, gillette and hicks all about running ruthlessly successful businesses-somehow i dont see any of these people leaving and wiping out any debts. they will sell at a higher price than they bought, and still leave the club finances dependant on huge debts

The Yanks at Utd and to a lesser degree Liverpool I probably agree, they're more likely to be looking for a return

Lerner, the consortium at Sunderland, Ashley before the penny really dropped, Gaydamac, Gibson and the rest all seem to be reasonably well intentioned and responsible and dont seem to be set on saddling the club with debts they either cant repay or arent interested in having repaid. Only time will tell though

Not sure on Gaydamac as the money now seems to have dried up there after this summer's spending - they need to sell now to balance the books.

With Gibson there has been some overspend due to him being a fan but now there it's a sell to buy scenario a lot of the time - Woodgate out, Alves in for example.

Lerner is a business man but Villa are more financially secure than most following the Ellis years and he is pushing the boat out in hope of breaking in to the CL, where the money is to make this cash back and/or sell to the next big investor.

Beyond the Arab money and RA these are business men who are out to make money, especially if they are American.

[Tommy Youlden's Ears]

The key, of course, is unbundling TV rights so that each team can sell their own worldwide rights instead of collectively. Then the money for the big clubs will be potentially unlimited.

Spot on. This must be the end game - when the big brands (Juve, Utd, Real, Barca, Bayern, Milan) and the mega-rich (Abramaovitch, the Sheiks, maybe some East Asians/Chinese) create a global break away league. Some kind of franchsie system. Massive TV deal, globe trotting schedule; can't see what Fifa/Uefa could do to stop it. Would be bigger than Champs league or World Cup. Would also be sterile, greedy, fake and vile. But the owners and players would get ever richer.

Might, in many ways, be the best thing for English game. We'd get our game back, the non-global clubs would have a much more even footing and once again we could see good management, talent, organisation and passion as the keys, rather than finance.

[Southbank Old Boy]

i agree with abramovich, and the new arabian boys
but to say that all the rest dont want a return on their investment
there are a few chairman who are only out to continuously fund the club they love-but theres not many about any more

most are big business men, with people like lerner, glazier, gillette and hicks all about running ruthlessly successful businesses-somehow i dont see any of these people leaving and wiping out any debts. they will sell at a higher price than they bought, and still leave the club finances dependant on huge debts

The Yanks at Utd and to a lesser degree Liverpool I probably agree, they're more likely to be looking for a return

Lerner, the consortium at Sunderland, Ashley before the penny really dropped, Gaydamac, Gibson and the rest all seem to be reasonably well intentioned and responsible and dont seem to be set on saddling the club with debts they either cant repay or arent interested in having repaid. Only time will tell though

Not sure on Gaydamac as the money now seems to have dried up there after this summer's spending - they need to sell now to balance the books.

With Gibson there has been some overspend due to him being a fan but now there it's a sell to buy scenario a lot of the time - Woodgate out, Alves in for example.

Lerner is a business man but Villa are more financially secure than most following the Ellis years and he is pushing the boat out in hope of breaking in to the CL, where the money is to make this cash back and/or sell to the next big investor.

Beyond the Arab money and RA these are business men who are out to make money, especially if they are American.

Agreed the money is drying up a bit in some quarters, but my point was that they're not there to make money and see a return on their investments, not that all clubs had a bottomless pit of cash like Chelsea and now apparenlty City as well

[Vision]

i agree with abramovich, and the new arabian boys
but to say that all the rest dont want a return on their investment
there are a few chairman who are only out to continuously fund the club they love-but theres not many about any more

most are big business men, with people like lerner, glazier, gillette and hicks all about running ruthlessly successful businesses-somehow i dont see any of these people leaving and wiping out any debts. they will sell at a higher price than they bought, and still leave the club finances dependant on huge debts

The Yanks at Utd and to a lesser degree Liverpool I probably agree, they're more likely to be looking for a return

Lerner, the consortium at Sunderland, Ashley before the penny really dropped, Gaydamac, Gibson and the rest all seem to be reasonably well intentioned and responsible and dont seem to be set on saddling the club with debts they either cant repay or arent interested in having repaid. Only time will tell though

Not sure on Gaydamac as the money now seems to have dried up there after this summer's spending - they need to sell now to balance the books.

With Gibson there has been some overspend due to him being a fan but now there it's a sell to buy scenario a lot of the time - Woodgate out, Alves in for example.

Lerner is a business man but Villa are more financially secure than most following the Ellis years and he is pushing the boat out in hope of breaking in to the CL, where the money is to make this cash back and/or sell to the next big investor.

Beyond the Arab money and RA these are business men who are out to make money, especially if they are American.

I also think that what happens a lot of the time with new owners is that theres usually a hefty intial spend when they take over in a lot of cases to get the fans onside before things get more realistic. This is probably more the case outside the Premiership to be honest but certainly seems to have followed at Pompey, Newcastle, West Ham and to a certain degree even Derby.

I've said it before but I reckon Gibson would just about be a perfect chairman/owner for me. Sure he spent a lot of money in his early days on foreign recruits but at the same time work was going at the club at the Academy infrastructure and not just by tapping up the best talent from all around but by actually nurturing a lot of local boys. He doesn't panic and gives his managers time to do a job and as you say he ensures that they get pretty much top dollar when they do sell someone. Both of those 2 factors means that although they do have to pay over the odds at times for transfer targets in order attract them to an unfashionable club, its not something thats going to cripple them overall.