Adkins to West Brom

[Ian Royal]

Still not really getting why readingfanman seems to think that you have to finish in the top 2 to be one of the "challengers".

I think there's a bit of a reading comprehension problem going on there.

[Readingfanman]

Still not really getting why readingfanman seems to think that you have to finish in the top 2 to be one of the "challengers".

I think there's a bit of a reading comprehension problem going on there.

I would place a challenger for promotion as someone who finishes in the top 3 or 4. If you want, you can go back and look how many teams who finish mid table then finish in the top 3 or 4 the season after. I imagine it's quite a low amount.

[YateleyRoyal]

We're 9th, one whole point off the Play Offs. It's incredibly unlikely, but with a stonking run (you know like the one from 2 years ago), we could still just about win the league. Let alone get promoted. And even if we don't, it's hardly the end of the year. We can reasonably expect to be in amongst the challengers next year.

On what basis, if we didn't get promoted this season, are we in amongst the challengers for next year? I really don't see any basis on which you can claim that. If Adkins is to stay at the club, and gets to bring in his own players, will people not clamour for him to have "time to gel" the players etc?


3 more clubs get relegated from the Premier League with bigger resources and become challengers, added the 3 losing teams in the Playoffs, and then probably anyone who finished above us if we finish outside the Playoffs. Say we finish 10th, for arguments sake, that would put us behind 9 other clubs in terms of challengers. Personally, I don't see any evidence of how we can be considered challengers for the title or promotion next season, when so far this season we have shown no evidence of being a team who are capable of achieveing either.

Why do the three relegated clubs automatically become challengers?

[floyd__streete]

Why do the three relegated clubs automatically become challengers?

I'd say that parachute payments give you an unequal advantage over many of the other sides

LOL @ football, a sport run so badly that you have to give a 'Live Aid' style handout for teams which get relegated to save them from inevitable financial meltdown. What a crap way to run our national game

[Extended-Phenotype]

I wonder if it is intellectually possible for people to criticise/defend Adkins without mentioning McDermott as if the success, failure, opinion and appointment of either is intrinsically linked with the other?

I bet it isn't.

What would you give me if I don't mention MaccyD again (by name or sly reference) in relation to Adkins performance, no matter what the provocation, for the rest of the season?

Credit.

[SPARTA]

What would you give me if I don't mention MaccyD again (by name or sly reference) in relation to Adkins performance, no matter what the provocation, for the rest of the season?

A £10 Waitrose voucher.
A £10 Waitrose voucher and a £5 Megastore voucher if you never mention his name again?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Folk shouldn't really let their opinion on whether McD was right to be sacked, effect their rational judgement on how well Adkins is doing or how well he can be expected to do.

We have no idea whether McD would have equally struggled this season, what the real factors are behind our disappointing performances, nor what it may take for everything to click into place. It's not showing a lack of loyalty to McD or a slight on his ability and success here, to give Adkins a break.

It's my personal opinion that our team is far worse than the one we had two seasons ago, mainly because I'm a believer in the fact that, without a solid back 6 (GK, RB, CB, CB, LB, DM) you aren't going to find any confidence or consistency.

I would swap all of our new additions for Maps back and a half-decent LB in a heartbeat. I'd also take a miraculous recovery from Karacan over any possible activity in this window, too.

The promises of a gazillion goals and winning the league came with a fully fit squad, a seemingly dedicated owner on board and promise of further investment - I think it's only right the fans adjust their expectation to fit the mess we are in now and still crack a smile that we are still challenging, despite everything.

[Readingfanman]

Why do the three relegated clubs automatically become challengers?

I'd say that parachute payments give you an unequal advantage over many of the other sides

LOL @ football, a sport run so badly that you have to give a 'Live Aid' style handout for teams which get relegated to save them from inevitable financial meltdown. What a crap way to run our national game

Pretty much this; if a team gets relegated from the Premiership, they should by logic (It may not be the case 100% of the time) be a challenger for promotion the following season. There's exceptions of course, but a quarter of teams finishing in the top two in the last eight years have been relegated from the top flight the year before.

[Royal Rother]

75% aren't exceptions.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Why do the three relegated clubs automatically become challengers?

I'd say that parachute payments give you an unequal advantage over many of the other sides

LOL @ football, a sport run so badly that you have to give a 'Live Aid' style handout for teams which get relegated to save them from inevitable financial meltdown. What a crap way to run our national game

Pretty much this; if a team gets relegated from the Premiership, they should by logic (It may not be the case 100% of the time) be a challenger for promotion the following season. There's exceptions of course, but a quarter of teams finishing in the top two in the last eight years have been relegated from the top flight the year before.

If this was more likely than not, you'd see the same three teams going up and down each season. The fact that even one team rarely yo-yo's with such regularity would suggest this logic is shat from a bovine.

[The Rouge]

Agree with E-P.

To be fair, the parachute payments do make sense (although should probably be limited to 2 seasons). Basically, clubs are given 2-3 months 'notice' that they will be operating in completely different circumstances. If that happened to other large companies they would not be able to cope either.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Football would be worse without them. They encourage new Prem teams (well, apart from Reading) to challenge by taking the risk out of investment in order to make the top flight more competitive. And it works - plenty of promoted teams stay up.

[floyd__streete]

Amazed to see people stick up for the concept of parachute payments.

Basically, they are one of the most glaringly obvious examples of the spiralling wage commitments which the top clubs have made and which accordingly have filtered down the food chain. Rouge’s comment that “other large companies operating in different circumstances” would need some sort of rescue package is entirely disingenuous, as if there are somehow league tables in the world of commerce which prevent you competing directly against every other opponent in your market.

The need for Parachute payments only serves to highlight how depressingly bonkers football expenditure has become. I appreciate why we need them, in the circumstances. But that doesn’t mean that the concept of them isn’t a damning indictment on the way in which English football is run. In the Championship you have teams like Yeovil (average gate 4500) come up and have to compete with the likes of Reading, attracting 4 times the crowd and with the generous advantage of a huge hand out for having failed in the division above!

[Extended-Phenotype]

Amazed to see people stick up for the concept of parachute payments.

Basically, they are one of the most glaringly obvious examples of the spiralling wage commitments which the top clubs have made and which accordingly have filtered down the food chain. Rouge’s comment that “other large companies operating in different circumstances” would need some sort of rescue package is entirely disingenuous, as if there are somehow league tables in the world of commerce which prevent you competing directly against every other opponent in your market.

The need for Parachute payments only serves to highlight how depressingly bonkers football expenditure has become. I appreciate why we need them, in the circumstances. But that doesn’t mean that the concept of them isn’t a damning indictment on the way in which English football is run. In the Championship you have teams like Yeovil (average gate 4500) come up and have to compete with the likes of Reading, attracting 4 times the crowd and with the generous advantage of a huge hand out for having failed in the division above!

No, I get it - I think we are both of the same mind, arguing in different ways. The fact we have them means the system is f/cked. But the system being f/cked is why we have to have them.

[ZacNaloen]

maybe they should make it that the contract you sign as a player only applies to the league you play in and new contracts have be negotiated on relegation.

Clubs could shift players they can't afford much easier then.

[PieEater]

That would work for wages but wouldn't that scupper any transfer fees? A club could spend millions on players, get relegated and they all leave for free?

[The Rouge]

Amazed to see people stick up for the concept of parachute payments.

Basically, they are one of the most glaringly obvious examples of the spiralling wage commitments which the top clubs have made and which accordingly have filtered down the food chain. Rouge’s comment that “other large companies operating in different circumstances” would need some sort of rescue package is entirely disingenuous, as if there are somehow league tables in the world of commerce which prevent you competing directly against every other opponent in your market.

The need for Parachute payments only serves to highlight how depressingly bonkers football expenditure has become. I appreciate why we need them, in the circumstances. But that doesn’t mean that the concept of them isn’t a damning indictment on the way in which English football is run. In the Championship you have teams like Yeovil (average gate 4500) come up and have to compete with the likes of Reading, attracting 4 times the crowd and with the generous advantage of a huge hand out for having failed in the division above!

No, I get it - I think we are both of the same mind, arguing in different ways. The fact we have them means the system is f/cked. But the system being f/cked is why we have to have them.

Agreed.

The business point stands in my view. If a large company (without the ability to have astronimical debt) were given three months notice that their revenue was to fall from £890m to £420m then they would struggle/maybe go out of business..

[ZacNaloen]

That would work for wages but wouldn't that scupper any transfer fees? A club could spend millions on players, get relegated and they all leave for free?

That's the risk you run innit. Make it so you have to pay the transfer fee up front with money you actually have as well.

[Franchise FC]

& how many years have all three been languishing around in mid table for now? 5+?


Fwiw - I've gone back through the tables since we got promoted the first time and got the finishing positions for the season before of each side for the top two spots:

Cardiff - 6th
Reading - 5th
QPR - 13th
Newcastle - Relegated from Top Flight
Wolves - 7th
WBA - 4th
Sunderland - Relegated from Top Flight
Reading - 7th


Hull - 8th
Southampton - Promoted from League 1
Norwich - Promoted from League 1
WBA - Relegated from Top flight
Birmingham - Relegated from Top Flight
Stoke - 8th
Birmingham - Relegated from Top Flight
Sheff United - 8th


So no team (Except QPR who had a tonne of money pumped in that summer) has finished below 8th in the last 8 years and then been promoted the following season (without the use of the playoffs, which I haven't yet checked). Fact remains going by the stats above, if we miss the playoffs and finish mid table, we are much more likely next season to be a mid table side rather than a challenger to the title.

No team EXCEPT the two that came up from League 1
Or does that count as finishing higher than 8th in the Championship

[Ian Royal]

Still not really getting why readingfanman seems to think that you have to finish in the top 2 to be one of the "challengers".

I think there's a bit of a reading comprehension problem going on there.

I would place a challenger for promotion as someone who finishes in the top 3 or 4. If you want, you can go back and look how many teams who finish mid table then finish in the top 3 or 4 the season after. I imagine it's quite a low amount.

I'd place a challenger as someone who finishes in the top 8. Because they're all challenging for potential promotion until the last few games.

How you can not be a challenger when you've finished in the play offs is beyond me. The point of this division isn't silverware. It's promotion.