Points Deduction AGAIN

[Crowbar6753]

Oh great, points needed again!! back to the 5-3-2 bore fest of clinging on for a point scenario!!!!

So realistically we now need to win 4 of our remaining 12 games to put this all to bed and give the EFL the big oxf*rd you!!!!

I say bring it on, surviving relegation for two seasons with a points deduction would feel like gaining promotion in my eyes and would really make us hugely unpopular with everyone else however, would be fooking marvelous for us

[The Royal Forester]

PInce has said this deduction is for something that happened two years ago. I assume that the six suspended points are still hanging over us. I can see the EFL docking us those six points as well if we look like staying up. Maybe PInce was right when he said (more than once) the EFL want to make sure we relegated.

[RoyalBlue]

So, we got caught breaching FFP, were docked 6 points and set a business plan to adhere to which if we didn't meet then we were to be docked another 6 points.

We are now being docked 6 points for something that happened prior to the business plan being set (a period we have already been punished for), a time which should have been covered by us/EFL agreeing to the plan and being a reset point.

Is the 6 points we are being docked the penalty for not meeting the business plan, or a separate 6 points covering a historical period we've already been penalised for and therefore the business plan 6 points could still be docked at a later date?

Do we think something we had hidden a couple of years ago has now come to light, or are the EFL being pressured by other clubs to apply another punishment as we were let off too lightly, or is it really a breach of the business plan influenced by something that pre-dates it?

If its historical and revisiting the original punishment it is literally opening the door for Peterborough to come into the fold and start demanding compensation.
EFL are losing the plot and any credibility here

EFL are clearly incompetent at best and rotten to the core at worst. Given this, I am sure there must be numerous legal failings in the manner in which they have handled our case (and probably others too). The Dais should hire some top lawyers and get them trawling through the EFL's procedures and actions in minute detail before suing the arse off them if they persist in the manner they seemed determined to do.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

PInce has said this deduction is for something that happened two years ago. I assume that the six suspended points are still hanging over us. I can see the EFL docking us those six points as well if we look like staying up. Maybe PInce was right when he said (more than once) the EFL want to make sure we relegated.

I've thought that as well, although that's just a conspiracy theory.

Somewhat of a blessing in disguise though as another 6 points off last season would have sent us down (although I'd have still have been confident we could have got another win if we needed it). Peterborough will probably be all over the case now I'm sure, just screams similar to the Derby, Middlesbrough and Wycombe debacle from a couple of years ago and hopefully we don't follow the same pattern as Derby.

[Elm Park Kid]

It just leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth really. You'd have thought that they would have explored this previously, put this to bed and then we agreed our business plan, knowing that any breach of that would result in an automatic 6 point deduction then.

If this isn't a breach of our business plan and it is something that goes back before the business plan was agreed, does that mean that we could still face another 6 point deduction if we are found to have breached anything in those terms that we agreed to as well?

It all just screams to me as an absolute shitshow, from both the club and the EFL now to be honest.

Yes, I guess that we could face new points deductions if we are still in breech.

All of this is just a part of the general shit-show that is EFL financing. I've spent that last 2-3 years listening to the price of football podcast and I would highlight some of the points below:

1) Each individual PL club receives more TV income than the entire 72 EFL clubs combined. Getting promoted has the potential to increase the value of your club from £20-30m to £200-300m overnight. And establishing yourself in the league could double that.
2) Hence, losing £13m a season is absolutely nothing for an ambitious owner. You can see why some of the bigger clubs are actually happy to lose £50-60m. The rewards are just so huge.
3) When you consider parachute payments, clubs gambling to reach the PL, and 'sleeping giants' with 25k+ weekly attendances, the reality is that a club of Reading's size is always going to find it near impossible to compete in the league without running at a loss. The 13m loss permitted by the EFL is probably the bare minimum needed just to stay in the league.
4) The 'logical' approach for most clubs is to gamble heavily, and then pull the brakes hard if you fail. Either that or to find some very good accountants and lawyers that can help you get around a clearly patchy EFL framework.

[YorkshireRoyal99]

It just leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth really. You'd have thought that they would have explored this previously, put this to bed and then we agreed our business plan, knowing that any breach of that would result in an automatic 6 point deduction then.

If this isn't a breach of our business plan and it is something that goes back before the business plan was agreed, does that mean that we could still face another 6 point deduction if we are found to have breached anything in those terms that we agreed to as well?

It all just screams to me as an absolute shitshow, from both the club and the EFL now to be honest.

Yes, I guess that we could face new points deductions if we are still in breech.

All of this is just a part of the general shit-show that is EFL financing. I've spent that last 2-3 years listening to the price of football podcast and I would highlight some of the points below:

1) Each individual PL club receives more TV income than the entire 72 EFL clubs combined. Getting promoted has the potential to increase the value of your club from £20-30m to £200-300m overnight. And establishing yourself in the league could double that.
2) Hence, losing £13m a season is absolutely nothing for an ambitious owner. You can see why some of the bigger clubs are actually happy to lose £50-60m. The rewards are just so huge.
3) When you consider parachute payments, clubs gambling to reach the PL, and 'sleeping giants' with 25k+ weekly attendances, the reality is that a club of Reading's size is always going to find it near impossible to compete in the league without running at a loss. The 13m loss permitted by the EFL is probably the bare minimum needed just to stay in the league.
4) The 'logical' approach for most clubs is to gamble heavily, and then pull the brakes hard if you fail. Either that or to find some very good accountants and lawyers that can help you get around a clearly patchy EFL framework.

Yeah pretty much every club runs at a loss, I think it's only Rotherham who consistently don't and they are relegated almost every season. £13m loss is nothing, the way you get around it is by selling one of your best assets for big money every season or two and the club will be clear, although that's hardly the definition of "sustainable", which goes along with the patchy framework that you suggest.

Thankfully to a degree, it's changing. Until clubs find another loophole to get around the new regulations that are coming into play.

[tmesis]

PInce has said this deduction is for something that happened two years ago. I assume that the six suspended points are still hanging over us. I can see the EFL docking us those six points as well if we look like staying up. Maybe PInce was right when he said (more than once) the EFL want to make sure we relegated.

If it was for something from two years ago, how it is only being looked into now? It makes no sense to me.

I can only think were were hiding something, but if that's the case, I'd expect far worse than 6 points.

[Hound]

EFL a shambles. In fact the whole champ is

Parachute payments making it utterly uncompetitive, keeping the rich clubs rich despite what they waste, virtually guaranteeing any relegated club is right in the mix to go up

Can’t punish teams who cheat their way to promotion so there is always the temptation to stick two fingers to them and try it

Promoted teams to the champ inevitably struggle and go back down within 2 years, whilst the rest shuffle about desperately trying to change the status quo at constant risk of getting done by however the EFL read their own rubbish regulations. It’s a joke

They’ve turned the best league in the world into a dull shitshow

[Sutekh]

PInce has said this deduction is for something that happened two years ago. I assume that the six suspended points are still hanging over us. I can see the EFL docking us those six points as well if we look like staying up. Maybe PInce was right when he said (more than once) the EFL want to make sure we relegated.

If it was for something from two years ago, how it is only being looked into now? It makes no sense to me.

I can only think were were hiding something, but if that's the case, I'd expect far worse than 6 points.

Think Peterborough would be well within their rights to sue the FL for loss of earnings if Reading are deducted the points. But then perhaps this finding is a totally new “crime” and not just something that got overlooked as part of the other cock ups. And is the points deduction definitely the suspended 6 points or a totally new 6 points, if the former then surely the club can argue they shouldn’t be penalised as this breach isn’t a breach “going forward”.

[Kitsondinho]

So, we got caught breaching FFP, were docked 6 points and set a business plan to adhere to which if we didn't meet then we were to be docked another 6 points.

We are now being docked 6 points for something that happened prior to the business plan being set (a period we have already been punished for), a time which should have been covered by us/EFL agreeing to the plan and being a reset point.

Is the 6 points we are being docked the penalty for not meeting the business plan, or a separate 6 points covering a historical period we've already been penalised for and therefore the business plan 6 points could still be docked at a later date?

Do we think something we had hidden a couple of years ago has now come to light, or are the EFL being pressured by other clubs to apply another punishment as we were let off too lightly, or is it really a breach of the business plan influenced by something that pre-dates it?

If its historical and revisiting the original punishment it is literally opening the door for Peterborough to come into the fold and start demanding compensation.
EFL are losing the plot and any credibility here

EFL are clearly incompetent at best and rotten to the core at worst. Given this, I am sure there must be numerous legal failings in the manner in which they have handled our case (and probably others too). The Dais should hire some top lawyers and get them trawling through the EFL's procedures and actions in minute detail before suing the arse off them if they persist in the manner they seemed determined to do.

Maybe they get City’s lawyers who won their case with UEFA…I bet you the EFL would put it under the spending plan though!!

[Kitsondinho]

EFL a shambles. In fact the whole champ is

Parachute payments making it utterly uncompetitive, keeping the rich clubs rich despite what they waste, virtually guaranteeing any relegated club is right in the mix to go up

Can’t punish teams who cheat their way to promotion so there is always the temptation to stick two fingers to them and try it

Promoted teams to the champ inevitably struggle and go back down within 2 years, whilst the rest shuffle about desperately trying to change the status quo at constant risk of getting done by however the EFL read their own rubbish regulations. It’s a joke

They’ve turned the best league in the world into a dull shitshow

The EFL is not fit for purpose…I wish some of those who bleat about the PL would take a proper look at the EFL….especially as some own teams in the EFL (yes Gary, I’m looking at you…even if you don’t think about Reading…)

[Mr Angry]

If we get docked 6 points that will take is to 19th on 38 points, with that bastion of good accountancy and financial well being, Birmingham City, ahead of us on Goal Difference - but we have a game in hand on them, as we do on Stoke and QPR (who we could overtake by winning that game in hand), and both Rotherham and Cardiff who would be immediately below us but on fewer points.

In other words, a 6 point deduction wouldn't neccesarily be fatal to us, and even a 12 point deduction would still see us outside the bottom 3.

[Snowflake Royal]

It just leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth really. You'd have thought that they would have explored this previously, put this to bed and then we agreed our business plan, knowing that any breach of that would result in an automatic 6 point deduction then.

If this isn't a breach of our business plan and it is something that goes back before the business plan was agreed, does that mean that we could still face another 6 point deduction if we are found to have breached anything in those terms that we agreed to as well?

It all just screams to me as an absolute shitshow, from both the club and the EFL now to be honest.

If you have a suspended points deduction, and that points deduction is activated, it cannot be activated a second time.

Although that doesn't mean that if we commit further offences we can't have further sanctions for them. They'll just be new offences and sanctions.

Going back to the criminal angle. You commit assault while drunk. You get a 20 hour community order with a six months suspended sentence. You are required not to visit licensed alcohol venues for six months and not to associate with your drunk buddies for an additional twelve months.

You are found to have been to a pub in the first six months, 15 months later. You go to prison for six months. If you also associated with your buddies, you don’t go to prison for 12 months. But if you carried out another drunken assault with them, you'll probably be convicted for another, longer, prison term.

[blythspartan]

I wonder if this was what the Peterborough manager was eluding to last year when the season had just ended. I remember reading a story in about us facing a further possible points deduction in their local press.

I accept that we have to take our punishment on the chin but part of me wishes that our rich owners would take on the EFL and threaten to sue their arses. It works for Man City whenever they’re threatened.

[TiagoIlori]

Seems the club know they’ve fallen short but feel as if they’ve made a reasonable attempt at it. May have some potential wriggle room to argue it would be unfair to deduct all six points but the EFL seem keen to make an example out of any team in question given the chance.

[Ascotexgunner]

The EFL will never be happy until they have made an example of us over all other clubs...and they will keep coming back. They won't be satisfied until they have ripped the guts out of the squad until we are no longer competitive.

[Kitsondinho]

The EFL will never be happy until they have made an example of us over all other clubs...and they will keep coming back. They won't be satisfied until they have ripped the guts out of the squad until we are no longer competitive.

See also Sheff Wed, Derby and so many other teams…

[Royal_jimmy]

EFL are a disgrace and Dai needs to run the club properly or sell up

[Ascotexgunner]

The EFL will never be happy until they have made an example of us over all other clubs...and they will keep coming back. They won't be satisfied until they have ripped the guts out of the squad until we are no longer competitive.

See also Sheff Wed, Derby and so many other teams…

TBF Derby deserved it, but we have cooperated for 3 years and worked with the EFL. All signings had to be sanctioned and agreed, people lost their jobs, the club has made cuts upto 43% in all areas.... so how has it got to this?

[windermereROYAL]

EFL are a disgrace and Dai needs to run the club properly or sell up

Sell to who exactly?