Tommy Smith - Gazumped by Pompey - Thread

[Ian Royal]

Unless the plan is to plan N Hunt in the middle and Smith + one of the youth boys out wide.

You've answered your own point. Smith isn't a central target man. I think we are largely agreed on that. We may or may not need a central striker (one rather hopes that at least one of the current crop can benefit from better service), but let's not confuse Smith with that person. We certainly do need a Smith type of midfielder, able to link up defence and attack and set up chances.

.........Davies
Smith.............Kebe
..........NHunt

creativity and threat on both flanks with a reliable strong player with a good jump on him in the middle and a energetic player with a great long shot bursting through the middle.

We've suffered upfront (IMO) from having little threat on the right, which causes Kebe to be the only outlet. Which allows teams to double or triple up on him. Given his tendency to arse chances up that basically marks him out of the game because he just isn't good enough to take on three people at once (few are).

Then because we've not been creating anything good on the flanks, or passing well enough in attack through the middle the lone striker has looked isolated.

Take pressure off Kebe and bring equal threat to both flanks and that should bring the middle and lone striker more into the game.

[Ian Royal]

Agree with Vision, I think our "wingers" need to play a little narrower so they can go outside or cut inside. It also makes it easier for them to get into the box quickly to support the striker, if they start off a little narrower

[Deathy]

Kebe still sneaking into the first team...

[Royalee]

Unless the plan is to plan N Hunt in the middle and Smith + one of the youth boys out wide.

You've answered your own point. Smith isn't a central target man. I think we are largely agreed on that. We may or may not need a central striker (one rather hopes that at least one of the current crop can benefit from better service), but let's not confuse Smith with that person. We certainly do need a Smith type of midfielder, able to link up defence and attack and set up chances.

.........Davies
Smith.............Kebe
..........NHunt

creativity and threat on both flanks with a reliable strong player with a good jump on him in the middle and a energetic player with a great long shot bursting through the middle.

We've suffered upfront (IMO) from having little threat on the right, which causes Kebe to be the only outlet. Which allows teams to double or triple up on him. Given his tendency to arse chances up that basically marks him out of the game because he just isn't good enough to take on three people at once (few are).

Then because we've not been creating anything good on the flanks, or passing well enough in attack through the middle the lone striker has looked isolated.

Take pressure off Kebe and bring equal threat to both flanks and that should bring the middle and lone striker more into the game.

Kebe never plays like there's any pressure on him anyway.

[Ian Royal]

Can't argue with that. But the opposition might find it harder to triple up on him if there is threat on the other wing getting into the box with Davies and NHunt/Long.

It also means if he's having a 'mare we can replace him with Henry/HRK without losing all possible threat on the wings.

Remeber Kebe produced the most last season while Hunt was in form.

[toppy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/watford/8206810.stm
Watford seal Cleverley loan deal

Cleverley scored in Man Utd's friendly win over Valencia

Watford have completed the signing of Manchester United midfielder Tom Cleverley on loan until January.

The 20-year-old has joined the Hornets in time to play in Tuesday's clash with Nottingham Forest.

Cleverley enjoyed a spell on loan at Leicester City last season, scoring twice in 10 starts as the Foxes won the League One title.

He is also an England Under-20 international and scored twice in the 5-0 win over Montenegro last week.

does this make the smith deal more likely?

[Ian Royal]

it's not going to be a stumbling block that's for sure.

[Isaac Hunt]

I couldn't see this on the thread yet, so....

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 87,00.html

[Royalee]

Can't argue with that. But the opposition might find it harder to triple up on him if there is threat on the other wing getting into the box with Davies and NHunt/Long.

It also means if he's having a 'mare we can replace him with Henry/HRK without losing all possible threat on the wings.

Remeber Kebe produced the most last season while Hunt was in form.

The opposition don't triple up on him, he just makes everything look more difficult than it is because he's a clown and needs to go back to the circus. He's got average ability and is fast which is his one asset, but this means nothing when you're as lazy and weak as he is - I've seen more backbone in a jellyfish.

I'd much rather play Robson-Kanu from the start, a player who is looking to make things happen and will work hard and improve rather than Kebe who has proven over the last 18 months that he is a fraud and is not good enough.

Every player produces more if players around them are performing well, but that's no excuse not to try an inch when they're not. Even when Hunt has his good run of games he did very little in all honesty and it's a complete blessing he's injured and out of the game tonight. I wouldn't wish harm on any player, but sometimes these things are exactly what is needed to set the wheels in motion for the team to be sorted out.

[ellpryjon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Smith_(footballer_born_1980)

Smith decided to leave Watford for Reading in a deal worth £1.4m. The move came after Watford chairman Jimmy Russo declared Smith too expensive to keep on at the club, and because Smith is a judas and a bum licker to Brendan Rodgers.

[Focher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Smith_(footballer_born_1980)

Smith decided to leave Watford for Reading in a deal worth £1.4m. The move came after Watford chairman Jimmy Russo declared Smith too expensive to keep on at the club, and because Smith is a judas and a bum licker to Brendan Rodgers.

[Hoop Blah]

That's my point. The players playing as the wide support to the main striker don't seem to know what their role actually is and are still playing as orthodox wingers (on the wrong sides). Smith with experience of Rodgers and the system will know how to operate it and the others will benefit from his experince of it..

The slightly worrying thing is that this is exactly the position that Church has played for most of his games on loan. Obviously Rodgers will want him to do slightly different things at times, but he's spent all that time in the lower leagues playing as a wide forward in 4-5-1/4-3-3's and hasn't managed to set the world alight. He certainly hasn't scored the goals on loan to indicate he'll get to double figures playing there for us this season.

Not sure if Robson-Kanu's time at Swindon saw them playing a similar system, but for me Church just flatters to deceive. He looks almost quite good. He does some good things and makes some good runs, but he never actually does much with them.

[andrew1957]

I agree regarding Church. I think he could become a good player but far from convinced he is up to Championship standard yet. He could really do with a full season at Div 1 level.

On the other hand Davies and Robson-Kanu had had a lot more games on loan and look like they can make the step up this season. Certainly Swindon fans were raving about RK last season - some saying he was even better than Cox.

I thought Long did well on Saturday considering he was completely on his own for most of the game. The Long knockers are really unfair to him. He is one of our most improved players IMO and will play a big part this season.

I think four of Davies, RK , Smith (if he comes) , Long and Hunt will give us a lot more up front than we showed at Newcastle. I don't dislike Kebe but he may be better as a sub as he looks too light weight at times.

[Vision]

That's my point. The players playing as the wide support to the main striker don't seem to know what their role actually is and are still playing as orthodox wingers (on the wrong sides). Smith with experience of Rodgers and the system will know how to operate it and the others will benefit from his experince of it..

The slightly worrying thing is that this is exactly the position that Church has played for most of his games on loan. Obviously Rodgers will want him to do slightly different things at times, but he's spent all that time in the lower leagues playing as a wide forward in 4-5-1/4-3-3's and hasn't managed to set the world alight. He certainly hasn't scored the goals on loan to indicate he'll get to double figures playing there for us this season.

Not sure if Robson-Kanu's time at Swindon saw them playing a similar system, but for me Church just flatters to deceive. He looks almost quite good. He does some good things and makes some good runs, but he never actually does much with them.

True although against Forest Church looked a completely transformed player when moved to the right after Long's introduction.

Maybe it was the circumstances of Newcastle where we didn't control possession in the same way but its still something he's going to have to adapt to because we acn't expect to have the same levels of possession away as at home particularly against the better sides.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

That's my point. The players playing as the wide support to the main striker don't seem to know what their role actually is and are still playing as orthodox wingers (on the wrong sides). Smith with experience of Rodgers and the system will know how to operate it and the others will benefit from his experince of it..

The slightly worrying thing is that this is exactly the position that Church has played for most of his games on loan. Obviously Rodgers will want him to do slightly different things at times, but he's spent all that time in the lower leagues playing as a wide forward in 4-5-1/4-3-3's and hasn't managed to set the world alight. He certainly hasn't scored the goals on loan to indicate he'll get to double figures playing there for us this season.

Not sure if Robson-Kanu's time at Swindon saw them playing a similar system, but for me Church just flatters to deceive. He looks almost quite good. He does some good things and makes some good runs, but he never actually does much with them.

I share your concerns re Church. He was also very poor defensively on Saturday in terms of tracking runs down his side. Not yet strong enough to play the central role, doesn't score many goals and weak defensively. Prepared to be wrong but I'd say he's one of the least likely to prosper (at least for this season) of the current youngster revolution

[YateleyRoyal]

I couldn't see this on the thread yet, so....

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 87,00.html

Think you'll find that I mentioned that last page

[Royal Rother]

I know expectations are higher these days but I remember the early days of players like Lovell, Williams, Taylor & Gilkes - when they came into the side none of those were anywhere near as accomplished as the young players we have now, and yet, whatever their mistakes, they were greeted with enthusiasm week in week out where I stood on the South Bank because they were OUR young players and they deserved our support.

Have values / demands of RFC supporters changed that much in the last 25+ years?

[Royalee]

Good point RR, I think it's mostly to do with the Sky Sports armchair internet fan generation are less knowledgeable on the game and have very little patience and are poor at judging the potential of players.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

I know expectations are higher these days but I remember the early days of players like Lovell, Williams, Taylor & Gilkes - when they came into the side none of those were anywhere near as accomplished as the young players we have now, and yet, whatever their mistakes, they were greeted with enthusiasm week in week out where I stood on the South Bank because they were OUR young players and they deserved our support.

Have values / demands of RFC supporters changed that much in the last 25+ years?

Hi RR, what happened to Sea Pigeon by the way

I don't think they have changed. I think everyone is behind the youngsters. The main questions at present would be can we get away with launching so many in one go and do we as a side have the physical presence to deal with this league, regardless of our footballing ability. I suspect we are pushing it a bit in both respects this season based on the current side.
I'm actually fine with that and a mid table position this year would augur well for the following season. That said, a couple of suitable acquisitions could significantly improve the outlook for this season.
The next two weeks will be interesting !

[Hoop Blah]

Totally agree with Ollie Kearns there.

I don't think the vast majority of fans expectations have changed that much. Obviously the internet has given a much wider voice for the concerns over and critique of the youngsters coming in but I can remember people having questions over the rake like Williams playing right back, the lightweight Taylor etc etc. I used to have some good rows with mates over the merits of Lovell to the side throughout his career.

I also think it works both ways. The clubs PR machine now works over time in building these prospects up. Many on here seem to swallow it hook line and sinker and think we've got the next Busby Babes on our hands only to see the crop after crop of youngsters fall by the weighside.

I don't think the current crop are coming in for any flak yet, and I really think the majority of people on here, and certainly at the ground, are willing them to suceed and giving them plenty of backing and slack, but at the same time the team does still need to function. I'm definately unconvinced a few of them have what it takes to flourish at this level though.

As I said earlier, it would be a shame if this crops development is stunted because they're all thrown in the deep end together without enough senior pro's around them to help them swim instead of sinking.