Points Deduction AGAIN

[Mr Angry]

Lose at home to the Blades Tuesday, 6 points docked Wednesday drop to 21st below Cardiff on GD on 38 points. Tuesday also Hudders home to Bristol, Wigan away to the Baggies. Gonna be an interesting night - going in to next weekend fixtures best case 6 points above Blackpool worst case 3 above Wigan. Then 11 games of doom and gloom struggle with the 3 below us and the 3 above us. What a bloody bummer

Tuesday is a big night

If somehow we do manage to win on Tuesday night, as unlikely as it probably is, it is nailed on any points deduction will be 12+, even 18.

Or even 24 or indeed, any number anyone wants to think of and suggest.........

What you are suggesting is that the EFL are waiting to see how we do on Tuesday night, and if we win, they double or even triple the sanctioned punishment...........really??? You REALLY think that???

[tmesis]

If true - which I think atm its all hyperbole - it would prove that the EFL business plan was impossible to follow and its intention was to make sure we fail.

Exactly. The EFL isn’t fit for purpose!

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

[Sutekh]

Exactly. The EFL isn’t fit for purpose!

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

^ This. Never happen of course as then you'll start endangering the "monopoly" of the big sides and that's not allowed.

[Mr Optimist]

Lose at home to the Blades Tuesday, 6 points docked Wednesday drop to 21st below Cardiff on GD on 38 points. Tuesday also Hudders home to Bristol, Wigan away to the Baggies. Gonna be an interesting night - going in to next weekend fixtures best case 6 points above Blackpool worst case 3 above Wigan. Then 11 games of doom and gloom struggle with the 3 below us and the 3 above us. What a bloody bummer

Tuesday is a big night

If somehow we do manage to win on Tuesday night, as unlikely as it probably is, it is nailed on any points deduction will be 12+, even 18.

Or even 24 or indeed, any number anyone wants to think of and suggest.........

What you are suggesting is that the EFL are waiting to see how we do on Tuesday night, and if we win, they double or even triple the sanctioned punishment...........really??? You REALLY think that???

What I am suggesting is that the EFL will want the points deduction to put us in the shit and the points deduction enough of a perceived punishment to make it difficult for us to survive this season. That is what I REALLY think, but that is just my opinion and message board spaculation.

[Kitsondinho]

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

^ This. Never happen of course as then you'll start endangering the "monopoly" of the big sides and that's not allowed.

Exactly!!

[tmesis]

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

^ This. Never happen of course as then you'll start endangering the "monopoly" of the big sides and that's not allowed.

One important point is that FFP in the premier league is about trying to stop billionaire owners/states from pumping in so much money that others can't compete. That really shouldn't be the main driver in the football league.

[Snowflake Royal]

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

^ This. Never happen of course as then you'll start endangering the "monopoly" of the big sides and that's not allowed.

Owners almost never write off debt, they just pile it on and get it back on selling.

[blythspartan]

I just want the EFL to do their worst and the transfer embargo lifted for next season. I’ll always support Reading no matter what league we’re in and having watched Chesterfield a few times in the last couple of seasons the quality of football is very good and the fans still turn up in their numbers.

I appreciate relegation would really hurt us financially but I’d love to start enjoying the football again. We have looked decent in only 2 or 3 games in recent years and it wears you down after a while.

[Hound]

Exactly. The EFL isn’t fit for purpose!

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

Yeah this pretty much

Club is as likely to fold now as it was then, and like most champ clubs is completely reliant on the owner pumping money in

[Hound]

Re the point deduction, it’ll be 6 if anything I expect

Any more and there’s no way we’d just take it. It’d be appealed and would say there would be a fair chance of the EFL losing that or caving in. I honestly think other clubs would realistically see it as over the top as well

We’d prob agree to 6 and move on

[From Despair To Where?]

To be honest, without it, the club might simply have folded. So I wouldn't attack the EFL and their policies of trying, under difficult circumstances, to make a workable system happen when everyone's trying to eak out an advantage.

Given that we haven't really reduced our debt, and have no prospect of doing so without the owner writing it off, we've hardly been saved.

If the League's reasoning for FFP is to protect clubs, then they should allow owners to write off debt as 'income', e.g. Dai writes off £30 million of the debt, rather than buying the stadium for £30 million.

I'm not sure how 'selling off the family silver' to remain with FFP budgets helps clubs in any way.

Basically say to owners that they can put money in, but that money has to be in the form of personal sponsorship, not 'loans' to the club.

You could then tighten up the amount clubs are allowed to lose each year, so you don't have to get to basketcase level before action is taken.

Yes, it would still mean owners could throw money at clubs to get promotion, but it would be their own money they are gambling with.

Yeah this pretty much

Club is as likely to fold now as it was then, and like most champ clubs is completely reliant on the owner pumping money in

[Brogue]

we should have the draft system they have in the MLS. That would sort it.

[Stranded]

If somehow we do manage to win on Tuesday night, as unlikely as it probably is, it is nailed on any points deduction will be 12+, even 18.

Or even 24 or indeed, any number anyone wants to think of and suggest.........

What you are suggesting is that the EFL are waiting to see how we do on Tuesday night, and if we win, they double or even triple the sanctioned punishment...........really??? You REALLY think that???

What I am suggesting is that the EFL will want the points deduction to put us in the shit and the points deduction enough of a perceived punishment to make it difficult for us to survive this season. That is what I REALLY think, but that is just my opinion and message board spaculation.

Key to point out here. The EFL do not decide on the points deduction. There are 2 ways it is set:

1. An agreed decision between the EFL and the club - as we currently have. Or, if agreement cannot be made:
2. An independent panel. Both sides put forward their case and the panel decide on any points deduction - both sides can then appeal if they feel the penalty is too harsh or too lenient.

The EFL's job is to ensure their rules are being followed and to charge any club that has not.

So in my view - if we come to another agreement, the penalty will be 6 points, as I don't see the club agreeing to anthing more - may also be a level of embargo retained as well. If the EFL want more then it will have to go the panel and that risks the process leaking into the summer - so it is probably in their interest as well to settle at 6.

[LUX]

is there any chance we get off scot-free here?

[YorkshireRoyal99]

is there any chance we get off scot-free here?

I've thought this, everyone seems resigned that it will happen and, to be fair, it probably will, but I'm thinking is there someway we get round this somehow. It still doesn't necessarily add up that they are pulling us up on something that they should have checked previously unless we have hidden it from them, in which case then we have no defence.

It's definitely more hope than expectation though.

[windermereROYAL]

is there any chance we get off scot-free here?

There`s always a chance until we see it in black and white, the club and in discussions with the EFL, it`s their decision ultimately.

[3points]

People understand that perfectly, Ian.

What we are annoyed about is the EFL seemingly going back and inventing new ways to punish us for the things they've already punished us for.

The principle of ffp also needs to be changed so clubs can be sanctioned at the time or at least during the same season a misdemeanour occurs not several years down the road.

Pretty impossible to do when accounts are only published 9 months after the season finishes and the money doesn't have to route through an independent regulator.

That, imo, would be the ideal solution. All player wages go through the PFA or an independent regulator, all transfer fees and registrations etc go through an independent regulator. Including bullshit like image rights, sponsorships etc. Contracts sorted out by lawyers not dodgy thieving bastard agents...

the return submitted on 1st March will relate to this season. The accounts might not be publicly published for 9 months but would have been available to the EFL much earlier. Don't expect EFL would have agreed all the signings in the summer if we were in breach of the season 21/22 business plan.

As with all football clubs I suspect there are grey areas of interpretation between the club and EFL as there are lots of costs that get removed from what would appear in the published accounts to the EFL's £13m per year / £39m over three years P&S scrutiny

[Stranded]

The principle of ffp also needs to be changed so clubs can be sanctioned at the time or at least during the same season a misdemeanour occurs not several years down the road.

Pretty impossible to do when accounts are only published 9 months after the season finishes and the money doesn't have to route through an independent regulator.

That, imo, would be the ideal solution. All player wages go through the PFA or an independent regulator, all transfer fees and registrations etc go through an independent regulator. Including bullshit like image rights, sponsorships etc. Contracts sorted out by lawyers not dodgy thieving bastard agents...

the return submitted on 1st March will relate to this season. The accounts might not be publicly published for 9 months but would have been available to the EFL much earlier. Don't expect EFL would have agreed all the signings in the summer if we were in breach of the season 21/22 business plan.

As with all football clubs I suspect there are grey areas of interpretation between the club and EFL as there are lots of costs that get removed from what would appear in the published accounts to the EFL's £13m per year / £39m over three years P&S scrutiny

I'm pretty sure the accounts submitted were for 21/22 with a forecast covering 22/23 - as it hasn't finished yet.

[3points]

Pretty impossible to do when accounts are only published 9 months after the season finishes and the money doesn't have to route through an independent regulator.

That, imo, would be the ideal solution. All player wages go through the PFA or an independent regulator, all transfer fees and registrations etc go through an independent regulator. Including bullshit like image rights, sponsorships etc. Contracts sorted out by lawyers not dodgy thieving bastard agents...

the return submitted on 1st March will relate to this season. The accounts might not be publicly published for 9 months but would have been available to the EFL much earlier. Don't expect EFL would have agreed all the signings in the summer if we were in breach of the season 21/22 business plan.

As with all football clubs I suspect there are grey areas of interpretation between the club and EFL as there are lots of costs that get removed from what would appear in the published accounts to the EFL's £13m per year / £39m over three years P&S scrutiny

I'm pretty sure the accounts submitted were for 21/22 with a forecast covering 22/23 - as it hasn't finished yet.

It will only be for this season's outturn. It's pretty easy to forecast the full year position now that the Jan transfer window is over. Wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to assume that the 1 March return to the EFL also includes a budget for the following season

[Mr Angry]

This was the Currant Bun's take on the story.................

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/21601899 ... -breaches/

Reading that article, their first sentence states that an EFL sources says there is "no chance of Reading avoiding a 6 point deduction" but at no point in the rest of the article do they actually quote the person stating this or putting it in context..........

Donchya luv our media!!!