After our game on Sunday...

[Gregster]

Peurile? You started it!!

What makes you say the potential risk is huge?
.

Read my post in its entirety and the risk is explained. If you are ahving difficulty picking it out let me clarify.

The risk is political. Few, if any, politicians will take a decision that might put them at such a risk.

The risk is that one incident is blamed on standing fans in a stadium that was allowing standing due to the politician changing the law, and that incident results in injuries or death. It won't matter if that incident actually was due to the standing areas; that politician will be dead in the water. Find me one who will open themselves to that potential risk and I'll be surprised.

You raise a very good point but I don't see the point in trying to shoot this campaign (or Andy) down in flames just because it doesn't match your views or because you question it's chance of success.

I too stand at any exciting moments in the game but only the other day, during the Darlington game, it appeared these 'exciting' moments are now to be taken only after we score. In the East stand (and Y25) a fan had moved over to try a new seat (they were a ST holder in the west stand) and was sat behind me.

I stood up to watch a corner taken from the NE corner (which from the lower area of Y25, is hard to see) and got asked to sit down. Why? Because in his own words 'there's no reason to stand up'. It used to be that fans got excited before, during and after a goal. Now it seems that people can only muster enough excitement to stand once the ball is in the goal and that damn tune is played. It's scripted, predictable and feels 'sanitised' although I have a comparison. I would be interested to hear what a young fan would say who has no comparison for atmosphere.

If you would like to stand for the whole game or not, that's your choice but I don't understand why you object or post on this thread when you're against it. If an area of the stadium was ever designated for standing fans (and although I like the idea, I too think it's remote but will still support it), it wouldn't affect your seated area at all.

Carry on Andy, you have my respect for continuing this campaign for so long.

[bobby1413]

Peurile? You started it!!

What makes you say the potential risk is huge?
.

Read my post in its entirety and the risk is explained. If you are ahving difficulty picking it out let me clarify.

The risk is political. Few, if any, politicians will take a decision that might put them at such a risk.

The risk is that one incident is blamed on standing fans in a stadium that was allowing standing due to the politician changing the law, and that incident results in injuries or death. It won't matter if that incident actually was due to the standing areas; that politician will be dead in the water. Find me one who will open themselves to that potential risk and I'll be surprised.

You raise a very good point but I don't see the point in trying to shoot this campaign (or Andy) down in flames just because it doesn't match your views or because you question it's chance of success.

I too stand at any exciting moments in the game but only the other day, during the Darlington game, it appeared these 'exciting' moments are now to be taken only after we score. In the East stand (and Y25) a fan had moved over to try a new seat (they were a ST holder in the west stand) and was sat behind me.

I stood up to watch a corner taken from the NE corner (which from the lower area of Y25, is hard to see) and got asked to sit down. Why? Because in his own words 'there's no reason to stand up'. It used to be that fans got excited before, during and after a goal. Now it seems that people can only muster enough excitement to stand once the ball is in the goal and that damn tune is played. It's scripted, predictable and feels 'sanitised' although I have a comparison. I would be interested to hear what a young fan would say who has no comparison for atmosphere.

If you would like to stand for the whole game or not, that's your choice but I don't understand why you object or post on this thread when you're against it. If an area of the stadium was ever designated for standing fans (and although I like the idea, I too think it's remote but will still support it), it wouldn't affect your seated area at all.

Carry on Andy, you have my respect for continuing this campaign for so long.

I've had my fair share of grivencies whilst trying to stand up during a game. But I do understand the reasons why you should not. An all-seater stadium is designed to accommodate seated fans. The level at which the seats are situated is not the safest to be standing throughout the game.

As well as this the club have to take into account fans who don't want to stand up. They paid their £30 just like everyone else and it's the club's responsibility and aim to try to please every customer.

As I said in a previous post, the stewards seem more relaxed about standing now. Most of the Y23-26 upper areas seem to be stood up for the majority of the game it seems. If we were still being hounded for having the nerve to stand up for one second - like we were last season - then I would bet you would have much more support for your campaign.

[Andy M]

But he doesn't raise a very good point at all. His point is based on guess work and assumption with nothing whatsover to back up his concerns. Further, we have plenty of MPs who've written to us and other fans in support.

Ok, you could argue that our solution has it's flaws but if you apply WSM logic, you may as well ban cars, sky diving, mountain climbing, standing on public transport and any other activity that carries risk (not that I think there is a risk with our solution or safe standing areas).

Forgive me if I appear obtuse, but I just don't buy the argument that WSM is giving.. we're talking about either managing what happens at many grounds or safe standing areas!

I'm no mathamatician, but consider 5000 WH fans standing at the Boleyn for 19+ games a season for the past 10 years.. no deaths, no injuries, no riots, no nothing and times that by all the other grounds where standing in front of seats has occured. If nothing else than the statistical risk of anything happening is miniscular.

Even the FLA can't properly demonstrate the risk using injury figures... plus, the Premier League have recently also said that they don't buy the safety argument either.

I appreciate you're putting yourself in the shoes of a politician but even so... in my extremely humble opinion your logic and thinking is flawed.

Thanks to those who've offered encouragement!

[Royal Lady]

How many of the MPs who have written to you regularly attend football matches?

[Gregster]

Sorry Andy mate, I wasn't criticising but I appreciated the point WSM was raising. If there are politicians in support of this, all the better but from a political office standpoint, it would be nigh on impossible to maintain your seat if you backed an initiative that did backfire.

Not that I think it would backfire but there are a high proportion of PC people out there (you only have to read the reactions on here to realise that).

This will always be a contentious issue and will always spur these topics to a few pages.....

[West Stand Man]

But he doesn't raise a very good point at all. His point is based on guess work and assumption with nothing whatsover to back up his concerns. Further, we have plenty of MPs who've written to us and other fans in support.

Ok, you could argue that our solution has it's flaws but if you apply WSM logic, you may as well ban cars, sky diving, mountain climbing, standing on public transport and any other activity that carries risk (not that I think there is a risk with our solution or safe standing areas).

Forgive me if I appear obtuse, but I just don't buy the argument that WSM is giving.. we're talking about either managing what happens at many grounds or safe standing areas!

I'm no mathamatician, but consider 5000 WH fans standing at the Boleyn for 19+ games a season for the past 10 years.. no deaths, no injuries, no riots, no nothing and times that by all the other grounds where standing in front of seats has occured. If nothing else than the statistical risk of anything happening is miniscular.

Even the FLA can't properly demonstrate the risk using injury figures... plus, the Premier League have recently also said that they don't buy the safety argument either.

I appreciate you're putting yourself in the shoes of a politician but even so... in my extremely humble opinion your logic and thinking is flawed.

Thanks to those who've offered encouragement!

1. The MPs you refer to aren't the Home Secretary or the Sports Minister, I think?

2. Yes you could argue that Driving and Sky Diving are dangerous activities too. They are expected to be. Going to a football match is not.



I am not trying to stop you having a view (far be it from me to do that), but it would help if it wasn't based on flawed logic.

[Andy M]

We may have to beg to differ but please, please tell me why you think standing may be viewed as dangerous.

And please don't say Hillsborough...

[pieface]

i think you got to relise that it is a law for everyteam in the premship to have no standing policy but i do agree that the club can be at times be over strict on punishment

[weybridgewanderer]

I think cardiff has proven that standing can be safe

They have a section in both the home support and away support where you can stand

Access is restriced to those with an appropriate ticket, entry is from the side not from the top so there isn't the "pig push" from the top the bottom, and there is a relatively large seating area in front rather than a fence

[lozz2601]

A few of us are meeting to discuss a peaceful protest we're planning outside our ground and during our game v Blackburn on the 29th October.
Anybody interested would be more than welcome to join us.

The main aim of this protest is to persuade our club (and hopefully others) that they should be speaking out, on behalf of their fans, in favour of safe standing areas. Many supporters are feeling increasingly alienated from their clubs as they feel strongly that the somtimes heavy handed enforcement of the regulations have a detrimental effect on the atmosphere that being a part of is integral to their support of their club. Indeed, the two supporters behind this protest have decided that they will no longer attend games at the Boleyn.

If you want to come along, drop me an email at info@standupsitdown.co.uk and I'll let you have details.

Andy M
http://www.standupsitdown.co.uk

When do we play Blackburn? Who is we? Cos if its Reading, we don't play em til December.
Maybe im wrong, but

[West Stand Man]

We may have to beg to differ but please, please tell me why you think standing may be viewed as dangerous.

And please don't say Hillsborough...

You are entirely missing the point. I may or may not have a view on the dangers involved in standing. It is not me who havs the power to make the decision - that sits with the government. My view is that the list of politicians who will take what they perceive as a potentially huge (and they also perceive as unnecessary) risk is very short and that none of those are in a position of power.

Why is it unnecessary? Well, to them the change in the law has been substantially important in the improvement in safety and atmosphere at football (and by atmosphere they will mean the inclusion of families into what used to be a theatre for moronic males with blood on their minds). What does a change in the law offer to a government minister? Only -ve risks.

Like it or not, Hillsborough and Heysel will colour people's opinions for years to come. That may or may not be rational, but it is the way it is.

The only real area that we substantially disagree on is whether there is any mileage in the argument. I firmly believe that it is lost before it starts, for all the reasons above. If you want to keep campaigning then that is your right and privelege. Just be ready to keep beating your head against an immovable brick wall and constantly draw your own blood.

[West Stand Man]

[
I too stand at any exciting moments in the game but only the other day, during the Darlington game, it appeared these 'exciting' moments are now to be taken only after we score. In the East stand (and Y25) a fan had moved over to try a new seat (they were a ST holder in the west stand) and was sat behind me.

You weren't one of the Whitchurch Utd gang there were you?

[RoyalBlue]

A few of us are meeting to discuss a peaceful protest we're planning outside our ground and during our game v Blackburn on the 29th October.

Anybody interested would be more than welcome to join us.

The main aim of this protest is to persuade our club (and hopefully others) that they should be speaking out, on behalf of their fans, in favour of safe standing areas. Many supporters are feeling increasingly alienated from their clubs as they feel strongly that the somtimes heavy handed enforcement of the regulations have a detrimental effect on the atmosphere that being a part of is integral to their support of their club. Indeed, the two supporters behind this protest have decided that they will no longer attend games at the Boleyn.

If you want to come along, drop me an email at info@standupsitdown.co.uk and I'll let you have details.

Andy M
http://www.standupsitdown.co.uk

Please ensure that you make it quite clear that you don't represent me or any of my family, all of whom love all seater stadiums.

The atmosphere at our match v Man Utd, and the atmosphere generally this season shows that sitting is NOT a negative effect.

You were clearly so absorbed in the game that you failed to spot large sections of the crowd, including virtually all of the away support, standing up throughout the game. I think this might have had something to do with the great atmosphere as I'm sure that any vocal coach will tell you that it is best to be standing if you really want to project your voice!

Also interesting that the Safety Office clearly decided that it was safer allowing the crowd to stand than trying to get his stewards/the police to make them sit down! Clearly standing really isn't that dangerous!

[Royal Lady]

But, again, we are talking about standing in front of your seat - not standing shoulder to shoulder like we did on the South Bank. Even back in those days I used to be pushed forward when we scored a goal, I always wondered how small kids coped with that.

[Gregster]

[
I too stand at any exciting moments in the game but only the other day, during the Darlington game, it appeared these 'exciting' moments are now to be taken only after we score. In the East stand (and Y25) a fan had moved over to try a new seat (they were a ST holder in the west stand) and was sat behind me.

You weren't one of the Whitchurch Utd gang there were you?

Is that a reference to the band of kids only there to taunt ( ) the away fans?

If so, no mate - borderline 30 yr old.

[West Stand Man]

[
I too stand at any exciting moments in the game but only the other day, during the Darlington game, it appeared these 'exciting' moments are now to be taken only after we score. In the East stand (and Y25) a fan had moved over to try a new seat (they were a ST holder in the west stand) and was sat behind me.

You weren't one of the Whitchurch Utd gang there were you?

Is that a reference to the band of kids only there to taunt ( ) the away fans?

If so, no mate - borderline 30 yr old.

Couldn't be you then, they were orderline 3 years old!

[Forbury Lion]

At the Mad Stad the seats have plenty of legroom and you don't often find the back of someones head blocking your view, unless they stand up.

I only stand to celebrate goals, for the rest of the time I'm happy to sit down.

Having been to Upton Park I have to say the away stand wasn't as comfortable and I'd have probably preferred to stand. At Portsmouth I had to as being a 6 footer I would have had to have my legs chopped off to fit into one of those seats.

What I'm trying to say is that different fans have different experiences.

[RG30]

Fairplay to the Reading fans today, everyone stood up for the entire match.

[Potter]

Todays atmosphere was excellent in the away end and a joy to see everyone standing through out.

[RIP ELM Park]

Fairplay to the Reading fans today, everyone stood up for the entire match.

It was bloody dangerous as well, I nearly took my kneecaps off on the back of the set infront after Soel scored

Stewards never made a single attempt to make us sit down, mind you in that weather they were too busy trying to stay dry themselves to worry about what we were up to.