I am now officially bored of watching Leroy Lita

[ScottishRoyal]

Btw Long was dreadful when he came on yesterday and people saying he should start insted of Lita are just blinkerd fools.

Fair enough he was a bit nervous to begin with but once he'd shaken the nerves off I thought he offered a new threat. He was able to get in a few good crosses and pressure their defenders into giving away corners. He also won a header at the far post.

That aid however I do think far too many people on this board unjustly slate Lita, probably still agreived by his off - the - pitch antics. The Doyle and Lita partnership isn't perfect by any means but it is still the best we have. Neither can operate at their best without Kitson. At the moment they are both outmuscled to a certain degree but Kitson attracts the interests of the bigger defenders giving them more space and an easier environment to operate in.

Long shows promise and contrary to what some say, I think he did ok yesterday. But starting a game and coming on for the last 15 minutes are completely different, especially in this league. A sub striker coming on when a defence is tired should always be making a bit of an impact. Starting when the defence is fresh though and balls aren't continually being banged into the box is different.

[Cookie]

I think you're being unfair. When Long came on he wasted possession two or three times. He is a big talent, but he is no way ready to start in the premiership.

Lita is suffering from being in a partnership that doesn't work at this level. Put him up front with Kitson and they'll terrorise defences, same as Kitson and Doyle.

We've just played one of the best attacking teams in the prem who keep possession fantastically followed by one of the best defencive teams in the prem. We were never going to get much. Lita seems to have improved a lot and once we get past Arsenal I think his value to the team will start to show more. Though I hope Kitson is back by then and it's as a sub. Though I wouldn't be too upset if Doyle was the one on the bench. Not that that will happen.

Spot on Ian, I think Lita will thrive as a "menace in the box" playing next to the big man, getting on the end on a loose ball or a knock-down just as he did with the winner against 'Boro.

[Alan Partridge]

So, in summary...

Doyle hasn't proven himself at this level despite most pundits lauding praise on him.
Who the hell has said that?? No one
Lita and Kitson work best even though Lita has one solitary tap-in and one decent performance to his name this season and Doyle is our top scorer.
No one's said that either, only that Lita has worked well with Kitson before and probably would do again, Kitson and Doyle works well as well. All everyone is saying that it's not all that fair to have a go at Lita when he hasn't had the big man alongside him at all.
Convey has done nothing this season and Hunt is far better, despite Convey leading our assists table.
Of course again you've worded it to your advantage, either that or you've missed the point entirely, probably both. Convey in terms of his overall performances has been one of the biggest let downs. Hunt has played in his absence and has played well and should keep his place, who saying Hunt is a better player?
Long hasn't done anything this season and shouldn't be given a chance because he hasn't scored more goals than Lita in his 10 minute substitute appearances and clearly isn't up to Premiership standard.
Who's said that? Lita is playing reasonably well still or as well as the circumstances have allowed like being marked by world class centre halves. Long is a very talented young player but in the chances he has had (Darlington in the cup, reserve team football) is yet to really show or is yet to prove without doubt he'd be a better option. 10minute cameo's mean nothing. If he plays well up at Liverpool then that would be staking a claim.
...I knew it was me who was the stupid one.
That can't be denied, Spot on.

1. It's been mentioned in another thread today on these boards but I can't be bothered to find it.

2. I think you'll find that with Doyle and Kitson together, we have far more play in the attacking third, as opposed to either paired with Lita. This is because Kitson and Doyle do more work, hold onto the ball and link up better (and actually have a first touch).

3. LOL! Convey has done nothing, but he does indeed top our assists table. Right you are then Ian!

4. I've worded it in my favour? Hardly, I don't make up the facts! Convey doesn't run around like a headless chicken if that's why his overall performance (whatever you're defining that by if it isn't goals, assists and influence on results) is supposedly poor. Hunt did a Hughes for most of the game yesterday and kept coming inside, giving us no width until near the end. Also, according to most reports I have of the reserves and Darlington game, he was poor in those, which completely defeats your ridiculous reasoning as to why Long shouldn't be given a chance to start in a league game.

5. Yep, keep thinking that, you're always right - look at your amazing insights into Goater and Hughes and the like before they got sold at the first possible attempt and their careers faded into oblivion.

Doyle and Kitson are the best pairing, who's argueing?Only you with yourself. All people are saying is that Lita would play better with Kitson than with Doyle. No that it would be the best partnership available.

Convey's contribution has been minimal this season, put a fantastic ball for Doyle at Sheffield United, I ams trggling to think of anything worthwhile he's done. I like Convey think he's a very good out and out winger, it's probably the rest of the teams fault too for not getting the ball to him enough. Hunt has stepped in yesterday and done a great job. Again it doesn't mean he's a better player than Convey but it's all about posession of the shirt, and Hunt is in posession.

Hunt has obviously done enough in training, games, reserve football or something in Coppell's mind to warrant a start in front of Oster or Little, Long obviously hasn't done.

Your final point let's you down again I'm afraid as you've just made that up with no insight as to what I've said in the past.

I was NEVER and NEVER will be a fan of Hughes especially as a midfield player. In fact it could be said that it was partly down to the sale of Hughes that we find ourselves in this decision.

With regards to Goater, people had expectations that he didn't live up to.The expectations were probably too high, I supported him while he was here (shame on me eh!!) in hindsight, wasn't a great signing for the club. 1 FACT is he played for 1 full season and was our top goal scorer.

[Royalee]

So, in summary...

Doyle hasn't proven himself at this level despite most pundits lauding praise on him.
Who the hell has said that?? No one
Lita and Kitson work best even though Lita has one solitary tap-in and one decent performance to his name this season and Doyle is our top scorer.
No one's said that either, only that Lita has worked well with Kitson before and probably would do again, Kitson and Doyle works well as well. All everyone is saying that it's not all that fair to have a go at Lita when he hasn't had the big man alongside him at all.
Convey has done nothing this season and Hunt is far better, despite Convey leading our assists table.
Of course again you've worded it to your advantage, either that or you've missed the point entirely, probably both. Convey in terms of his overall performances has been one of the biggest let downs. Hunt has played in his absence and has played well and should keep his place, who saying Hunt is a better player?
Long hasn't done anything this season and shouldn't be given a chance because he hasn't scored more goals than Lita in his 10 minute substitute appearances and clearly isn't up to Premiership standard.
Who's said that? Lita is playing reasonably well still or as well as the circumstances have allowed like being marked by world class centre halves. Long is a very talented young player but in the chances he has had (Darlington in the cup, reserve team football) is yet to really show or is yet to prove without doubt he'd be a better option. 10minute cameo's mean nothing. If he plays well up at Liverpool then that would be staking a claim.
...I knew it was me who was the stupid one.
That can't be denied, Spot on.

1. It's been mentioned in another thread today on these boards but I can't be bothered to find it.

2. I think you'll find that with Doyle and Kitson together, we have far more play in the attacking third, as opposed to either paired with Lita. This is because Kitson and Doyle do more work, hold onto the ball and link up better (and actually have a first touch).

3. LOL! Convey has done nothing, but he does indeed top our assists table. Right you are then Ian!

4. I've worded it in my favour? Hardly, I don't make up the facts! Convey doesn't run around like a headless chicken if that's why his overall performance (whatever you're defining that by if it isn't goals, assists and influence on results) is supposedly poor. Hunt did a Hughes for most of the game yesterday and kept coming inside, giving us no width until near the end. Also, according to most reports I have of the reserves and Darlington game, he was poor in those, which completely defeats your ridiculous reasoning as to why Long shouldn't be given a chance to start in a league game.

5. Yep, keep thinking that, you're always right - look at your amazing insights into Goater and Hughes and the like before they got sold at the first possible attempt and their careers faded into oblivion.

Doyle and Kitson are the best pairing, who's argueing?Only you with yourself. All people are saying is that Lita would play better with Kitson than with Doyle. No that it would be the best partnership available.

Convey's contribution has been minimal this season, put a fantastic ball for Doyle at Sheffield United, I ams trggling to think of anything worthwhile he's done. I like Convey think he's a very good out and out winger, it's probably the rest of the teams fault too for not getting the ball to him enough. Hunt has stepped in yesterday and done a great job. Again it doesn't mean he's a better player than Convey but it's all about posession of the shirt, and Hunt is in posession.

Hunt has obviously done enough in training, games, reserve football or something in Coppell's mind to warrant a start in front of Oster or Little, Long obviously hasn't done.

Your final point let's you down again I'm afraid as you've just made that up with no insight as to what I've said in the past.

I was NEVER and NEVER will be a fan of Hughes especially as a midfield player. In fact it could be said that it was partly down to the sale of Hughes that we find ourselves in this decision.

With regards to Goater, people had expectations that he didn't live up to.The expectations were probably too high, I supported him while he was here (shame on me eh!!) in hindsight, wasn't a great signing for the club. 1 FACT is he played for 1 full season and was our top goal scorer.

I was aiming the last part at Ian Royal, not yourself.

[NTRoyal]

Thought Lita was much better than Doyle last night.

I find that a bit incredible, but hey ho, post match analysis is all about opinions isn't it?!

Indeed.

Personally i thought Lita was more effective, and if he'd have had some support his headers would have been more important. The fact that Doyle seemed to be nowhere near Lita when he was trying flick on's etc was why it was so in-effective.

As there were no midfielders getting forward (in most cases) it is essential that the strikers stay in close proximity of each other, it's just plain sense. Just seems to me that Doyle and Lita don't work. Personally I don't think Kitson is as talented as Lita, but he is much more effective (better mentally perhaps?).

[Legend]

I haven't read any of this thread apart from the title, but i feel stongly about it.

Lita is a 'box striker' a man to pick up the pieces and put the ball in the net. Very effective last season when we creating chance after chance. This season we are creating few chances and he is effectively playing a different role, especially with Doyle along side him.

If you put Lita in one of the top sides i am sure he'd score goals, the fact is he and Doyle can't play together, through no fault of Lita's. Him and Kitson would be a very good partnership if Doyle was injured and he'd pick up the pieces from Kits.

I have been very impressed with Lita's work rate this season, something you couldn't say about him previously, as i said, he's effectively playing a different role and working bloody hard at it, i don't think the criticism is fair that he's receiving.

[Woodcote Royal]

So, in summary...

Doyle hasn't proven himself at this level despite most pundits lauding praise on him.
Who the hell has said that?? No one
Lita and Kitson work best even though Lita has one solitary tap-in and one decent performance to his name this season and Doyle is our top scorer.
No one's said that either, only that Lita has worked well with Kitson before and probably would do again, Kitson and Doyle works well as well. All everyone is saying that it's not all that fair to have a go at Lita when he hasn't had the big man alongside him at all.
Convey has done nothing this season and Hunt is far better, despite Convey leading our assists table.
Of course again you've worded it to your advantage, either that or you've missed the point entirely, probably both. Convey in terms of his overall performances has been one of the biggest let downs. Hunt has played in his absence and has played well and should keep his place, who saying Hunt is a better player?
Long hasn't done anything this season and shouldn't be given a chance because he hasn't scored more goals than Lita in his 10 minute substitute appearances and clearly isn't up to Premiership standard.
Who's said that? Lita is playing reasonably well still or as well as the circumstances have allowed like being marked by world class centre halves. Long is a very talented young player but in the chances he has had (Darlington in the cup, reserve team football) is yet to really show or is yet to prove without doubt he'd be a better option. 10minute cameo's mean nothing. If he plays well up at Liverpool then that would be staking a claim.
...I knew it was me who was the stupid one.
That can't be denied, Spot on.

No!!!!

In summary, everyone's missing that lazy b@stard Kitson

[xtreme rebel]

Lita just isn't up to this level IMO. He'll be (and is) found out in the Premiership, I think until Kitson is fit Shane Long should play....

[melksham_royal]

im not up for slating any of our forwards but i feel shane long needs a start simply to keep lita on his toes. he seems to think that he is the immediate replacement for kitson and that he doesnt have to work for his place. iv seen every game this season and lita looked good in the sheffield and boro games, but he isnt making enough of a contribution to keep his place. i know it was just one miss but i think a lot of people turned against him after missing that vital chance against wigan. however, long had at least three or four quality chances against the likes of darlington and failed to score so that didnt look promising. was probably just having an off day...

[Only one Trevor Morley]

All of this would have been solved if we'd signed John Hartson as another striker at the start of the season. he would have been a perfect alternative to what we have (indeed with Kitson out a good replacement) and I think Lita would profit more with someone who can win the ball in the penalty box. its no coincidence that the two games we have failed to score in have been against sides with tall and powerful centre backs....

[Tilehurst Mike]

Lita just isn't up to this level IMO. He'll be (and is) found out in the Premiership, I think until Kitson is fit Shane Long should play....

Until kitson is fit!! Kitson=Anderton=Sicknote!

[Stranded]

Can someone remind me of one thing that Long has done this season that makes you think he should start a Premiership game, because I've not seen a single piece of play that convinces me.

Like AP I'm not knocking him, I just don't think he is ready yet.

He constantly comes on for Lita (notice how it's never Doyle who gets subbed) and holds the ball up well late on when we're struggling or holding on and he's an outlet. We improved at Wigan when he came on, same against Man City when they were beginning to have more of the play (e.g. the Doyle chance last minute) and against West Ham he would have scored but for Konchesky's desperate lunge.

Just to look at your points there:

We improved at Wigan when he came on - yep for 3 mins with both Doyle and Lita on the pitch.

same against Man City when they were beginning to have more of the play (e.g. the Doyle chance last minute) - Ok, City were down to 10men when Long was on, 11 with Lita. They were pushing forward as they were losing and there was more space. The Doyle chance resulted in a header he won well on the half way line but Lita has won quite a few similar headers this season


against West Ham he would have scored but for Konchesky's desperate lunge - Can't see how you can say that when said lunge brought him down in our half, unless there is another incident I can't recall at the moment.

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

As for Convey, he has not been the same player as last year that is undoubted. Yes he leads the assist league with 3 I believe, but of those one was a free-kick, one of the few decent ones he has put in this year and the other was knocking a short ball to Seol at West Ham before he did all the work.

Convey is definitely a better player than Hunt but Hunt put in a good display on Saturday so deserves to start next week and it is for Convey to win the shirt back.

[Archie's penalty]

I think the fact of the matter is Doyle is able to make chances from nothing better than Lita. He's got better touch and knows where he is on the pitch, plus he drags defenders all over the place. With Kitson back it's certainly going to be better. Just imagine Lita coming on near the end (for doyle) to terrorise opposition defences.

I think a good big striker in acquired in the transfer window in January will increase our goals and we'll be fine. Have to say am incredibly impressed with Sonko and Ingimarson. Sonko is getting better and better,

come on uuuuurrrrzzzzzzzz!!!!

[Royal Rother]

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

I like Lita but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

[Alan Partridge]

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

I like Lita but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

Had we had another better option you could be right, we don't so there we go.

[Stranded]

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

I like Lita but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

But (and this is the key point) he has the shirt. Coppell is not the sort of manager who changes a team unless he has to.

Long has to prove to Coppell that he can do a better job than Lita in the time he gets. In the time so far this season he clearly hasn't done enough to do so. The only way I can see him doing so is my creating or scoring a goal in his time on the pitch.

I may be wrong but I don't think we have scored a goal in the time Long has been on the pitch whereby Lita has scored one and has one assist.

[Alan Partridge]

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

I like Lita but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

But (and this is the key point) he has the shirt. Coppell is not the sort of manager who changes a team unless he has to.

Long has to prove to Coppell that he can do a better job than Lita in the time he gets. In the time so far this season he clearly hasn't done enough to do so. The only way I can see him doing so is my creating or scoring a goal in his time on the pitch.

I may be wrong but I don't think we have scored a goal in the time Long has been on the pitch whereby Lita has scored one and has one assist.

Whilst I agree totally with your point, the last bit is a tad harsh, Long hasn't had much time at all really compared to Lita. Long has had opportunites the Darlington game wa a great one, put in a good dispaly maybe score and just send a little reminder, or even in the reserves but that hasn't happened.

Lita is playing reasonably well still, the one worry is he's not getting any chances. That's not all his fault though, it's up to our midfield to give both strikers something. Also a bit of a reality check is also needed, we aren't playing Brighton, Millwall and the likes. We aren't having much of the ball and in our last two home games we've played the 2 best sides in the Premiership.

[Stranded]

Fair enough perhaps a tad harsh with the last point.

[floyd__streete]

I have been very impressed with Lita's work rate this season, something you couldn't say about him previously, as i said, he's effectively playing a different role and working bloody hard at it, i don't think the criticism is fair that he's receiving.

I agree, well said.

[Royal Rother]

I like Long but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

I like Lita but he has not proved at all that he could handle 90mins at the top level right now. He offers an excellent alternative off the bench with 20 to go as his pace can worry tiring defenders.

Had we had another better option you could be right, we don't so there we go.

I just have found Lita so utterly ineffectual, in identically the same way each game, that I am wondering whether it is worth playing him when it seems pretty obvious that he (or the game he is playing at the moment) is so easy for top defenders to handle.

As you suggest though, he would probably be better getting on the end of chances in the box, but we're not really creating any / many so haven't seen him in that situation.

I just think we might as well see if something else could work for a longer period of a game. Okay Long was ineffective against Darlington but he was not playing with the 1st team squad. Small factor, but relevant nonetheless.

Incidentally I was just chatting to a Man Utd supporter who thought Doyle had a good match, far batter than Lita, and that Long also did very well when he came on. So there you go!