Stadium Expansion

[Coppelled Streets]

"The works should not affect the normal seating positions in the East Stand"

The problem being there were empty seats on Saturday so whats the point in having a 38,000 capacity?

But not many! Only the sort of amount you'd expect to miss games (200/300 short of capacity).

I couldn't go Saturday because I was laid up in Hospital, so there's one seat. Plus Sheffield United seemed to have a fair few empty seats amongst them.

Point is, each and every ground has a good hundred or so empty seats a game where not everyone can go, it's not anything to judge a club's support on!

38,000 feels to much now, but by the time the club start the expansion of the North and South stands, we could be averaging 30,000 a game and it wont seem so ambitious.

[Symposium]

there were empty seats on Saturday so whats the point in having a 38,000 capacity?

In order to gain new regular supporters (not those that come to just the big matches), we need to have the capacity to allow them to come to the big matches.

So, I would imagine that initially after the expansion, there would be a fair number of empty seats for the majority of games. However, these seats would be filled when Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool (and some others!) come to town. Those filling the seats would be people that would not have any hope of getting a ticket to that match without the stadium being expanded.

Some of those "glory supporters", or whatever you want to call them, will stick around. They'll get a taste of live football, and like it. And then they'll start going to the "less glamorous" ties as well.

There's also the issue of people taking friends. I have lots of friends that want to come with me to watch Reading. But they're put off by not being able to sit with me in the East Stand, and even if I move my seat to the South Stand for that match, we probably won't all be able to sit together by the time the seats go on general sale. My girlfriend applied for a season ticket for this season, but didn't get one as she had too few Royalty Points. There are people in my office that thought about applying, but had no Royalty Points, so didn't even bother applying. All of those people could have been regulars this season, but have not had the opportunity.

Finally, what about parents taking children? I'm in my late twenties... I would imagine I'd be having children within the next ten years (a frightening thought!) . At the moment, there's no possibility of me being able to get a season ticket for a child. And I imagine there are lots of people in the same boat.

In order for these people to get a taste of football and get bitten by the bug, we need to speculate. Increase the capacity, take a hit for a couple of seasons, then watch us accumulate.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

I agree with a lot of the points you make Symposium, particually about taking friends and children to the game.

But for me this is more than just speculating to accumulate. The club are taking a massive gamble with our long term future.

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad.

You also have to take into account that this is our first season in the prem, and the novelty factor will wear off next season.

We are already paying off a huge debt on the ground as it is. This massive project will come at a huge cost, a cost that can only be met with premiership football. If we spend £20m increasing the size of the ground, where will the money come from to rebuild the team? The current team may be doing the biz at the moment, but it will cost a lot of money to replace.

What will happen of we do go down? What if we get another ITV Digital fiasco? I think the club are burying their heads in the sand at the possibility of this happening. Something they haven't done in the past which has led us to where we are now.

I think the club are right to look at increasing the capacity, but we should be continuing to build as a club steadily. 38,000 is way in excess of what we need and is a big risk that we do not need to take. 30,000 maybe, & then say in 5 years look at increasing again.

[orange]

I do though wonder what alterations the club will make to the away end. They will have to have more seats and I would assume they will take some of the South Stand that is currently for non season ticket holders.
Meaning changes to the concourse area too to keep the fans separate, facilities, toilets etc....?

I should imagine the easiest option would be to give the whole of the south stand to away supporters again and go back to using the old segregation.

I don't favour that idea, easier for the club or not. Away fans always made a hell of a lot of noise when they had the 4000-4500 seats behind the goal.

Whats wrong with away fans making more noise? Scared they might make more noise than us? Id love to see away fans filling the south stand again it used to create an excellent atmosphere, and would even more so if we had an extented and filled stadium as well. I certainly agree with building it 1 stand at a time rather than all at once, we just wouldnt fill a ground capacity close to 40,000 seats at the moment.

[Symposium]

I think the club are right to look at increasing the capacity, but we should be continuing to build as a club steadily. 38,000 is way in excess of what we need and is a big risk that we do not need to take. 30,000 maybe, & then say in 5 years look at increasing again.

And I agree with most of what you say, too... I'd favour extending the East Stand, as planned, to take us up to 30,000. Wait a few years, then do the North & South Stands.

The rationale behind doing the two phases closer together may be that it lowers the cost... the construction companies can be invited to tender for the overall project, rather than just one of the phases. The ancillary changes may also need to be made now, regardless of whether the phases are completed with a gap in between or not, meaning that the additional cost to be build the North & South Stand extensions may not be anywhere near as much as to set everything up for the East Stand extension. But who knows?

There are too many unknowns, as far as I'm concerned. We have to trust that JM is doing his job as a businessman and weighing up the pros and cons, as he has more of the facts and figures available to him than we do. He's done that to great success in his other business ventures.

[SWLR]

. ...... then say in 5 years look at increasing again.

Or when Mr Mad wants his name on an Olympic venue [cynic mode off]

[Rob-Royal]

I agree with a lot of the points you make Symposium, particually about taking friends and children to the game.

But for me this is more than just speculating to accumulate. The club are taking a massive gamble with our long term future.

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad.

You also have to take into account that this is our first season in the prem, and the novelty factor will wear off next season.

We are already paying off a huge debt on the ground as it is. This massive project will come at a huge cost, a cost that can only be met with premiership football. If we spend £20m increasing the size of the ground, where will the money come from to rebuild the team? The current team may be doing the biz at the moment, but it will cost a lot of money to replace.

What will happen of we do go down? What if we get another ITV Digital fiasco? I think the club are burying their heads in the sand at the possibility of this happening. Something they haven't done in the past which has led us to where we are now.

I think the club are right to look at increasing the capacity, but we should be continuing to build as a club steadily. 38,000 is way in excess of what we need and is a big risk that we do not need to take. 30,000 maybe, & then say in 5 years look at increasing again.

Your caution & concern is understandable. However, I see it as a lesser of 2 evils in providing a 38k capacity. We either stand still and continue to lose revenue which in turn means we're at a disadvantage in the transfer market, or we take a gamble on continuing our growth & development as a Premiership force and be in a position where we are able to compete with the majority in our division.

We need to grow quickly if we're going to stand a chance of being a premiership team for years to come. We risk that by either doing nothing or taking too long to get there.

One thing that makes me feel more than ok with what the board are doing here is that when it comes to spending money, these guys have shown time & again just how prudent they are. They wouldn't risk our club, they wouldn't be doing this unless they knew it was 100% right thing to do.

There are other factors here too. The global TV revenue is going up as the Premiership becomes a platinum brand across the world. Why else are we seeing so many foreign investors buying up clubs and since when have Americans (the most savvy business nation on the planet) suddenly taken a shine to 'soccer'...?

And of course finally, having premership facilties with a near 40k capacity is also a much more appealing proposition for any potential buyers.....

[Silver Fox]

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad.

I don't see why it's a realistic probablity we'll be relegated in the next 2 or 3 seasons? Sure we're more likely to go down than the big 4 but that doesn't make it a probablity, especially with the way the club seem likely to continue their current brick by brick approach.

Also, I don't think it was the move to the Mad Stad that set us back on our last relegation as much as our slightly dubious manager at the time.

[SpaceCruiser]

Also, I don't think it was the move to the Mad Stad that set us back on our last relegation as much as our slightly dubious manager at the time.

Which of the two managers are you referring to?

[Tony Le Mesmer]

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad.

I don't see why it's a realistic probablity we'll be relegated in the next 2 or 3 seasons?

Well thats where i disagree.

If you went into Ladbrokes & asked for a price on us to be relegated in the next 3 seasons, you wouldn't get much of a price. I doubt you'd get much better then even money.

[G'La]

Also, I don't think it was the move to the Mad Stad that set us back on our last relegation as much as our slightly dubious manager at the time.

Which of the two managers are you referring to?

I'd say that cabbie from Brentford! That said, the long lost triplet brother of these two that nobody knew about was a c*nt too!....

[Yorkshire Royal]

It wouldn't suprise me that the 2nd part of the extension was delayed. But I think bumping up to 30,000 will definitely be good for the club.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

It wouldn't suprise me that the 2nd part of the extension was delayed. But I think bumping up to 30,000 will definitely be good for the club.

Me neither. That may be why they have changed to developing the East stand first as it would give them that option.

[Billy The Fish]

I work in Guildford and yesterday, while following a car with a Reading sticker in the back window I saw a chap jogging along the road wearing a nice new home shirt with SHOREY on the back. In Guildford! This club has the potential to be huge. HUGE I tells ya!
Expand to 30,000 ASAP, and I reckon we will fill it.
Sort out the parking though

[Royal Monk]

I read somewhere that it would cost £1000 per seat to build the new stands.If you get a season ticket holder in that seat for 2 years its paid for and any use of that seat after that is profit

[West Stand Man]

I read somewhere that it would cost £1000 per seat to build the new stands.If you get a season ticket holder in that seat for 2 years its paid for and any use of that seat after that is profit

Of course there is nothing else that needs that money? I hope you aren't project managing anything for me!

[Mr Angry]

My view would be to expand the stadium as quickly as prudent financial restraints allow.

However, this MUST be in conjunction with improving the transport links to the site - a railway/tram terminal to ease car congestion is, I would have thought, a major consideration, and we would almost certainly be expected to help fund it.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad..

the move didn't "set the club back" in the slightest. Our crowds were up on the previous season. Had we still been at Elm Park you can guarantee we wouldn't have averaged anywhere near the 11,000 we had watching the crap we saw that season.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

I read somewhere that it would cost £1000 per seat to build the new stands.If you get a season ticket holder in that seat for 2 years its paid for and any use of that seat after that is profit

Of course there is nothing else that needs that money? I hope you aren't project managing anything for me!

these days £6 million might by you one player, who might turn out to be rubbish.

Unless crowds drop the extenstion will provide income for years, and in the premiership we'll only get by paying low wages and picking up bargains for so long. To survive you need the money that 30,000 crowds bring in - 24,000 won't be enough in the long run.

[Tony Le Mesmer]

There is a realistic probability that we will get relegated over the next 2 or 3 seasons, despite what we have achived over the last couple of years. We've already seen how far back the club was set when our last relegation coincided with the move to the Mad Stad..

the move didn't "set the club back" in the slightest. Our crowds were up on the previous season. Had we still been at Elm Park you can guarantee we wouldn't have averaged anywhere near the 11,000 we had watching the crap we saw that season.

getting relegated whilst taking on a £40m debt pretty much consistutes a set back

Attendances were down to an average of 8,000 in 1999 and as low as 5,000 for one league game.