Howe - we can be bigger than Arsenal

[Archie's penalty]

Yes 38,000 is pushing it - but I reckon our core is more like 19-20,000 now. I can't see us falling to as low attendances as Wigan - even if we're 17th at the same time next year. Wigan get 15-16,000 but they have huge teams around them, they are a rugby town and their supporters are not as wealthy as ours. All things added up I see us falling to 20,000 at the least next year - that is if we do bad. If we do ok - that being 15th and above I expect us to have 22-23,000 every week. I think Howe has grounds for optimism for the future...

[Woodcote Royal]

I apologise for not realising just how vast those blinkers are

Think catchment area, think what crowds we were getting at EP in the earley 90's and think of all those other blinkered fans who, just a few years ago, didn't think we'd sell out the Mad Stad every week and, perhaps, just perhaps, you might see the bigger picture...................but I won't hold my breath.

This season is a novelty, (some, not many but some people are only here and have these season tckets to see the opposition or because Reading are in the Premier League for the first time, novelties wear off) if not why weren't they all here two years ago? It was cheaper then too!!

Next season there will be games where you can get tickets on the day, especially if we aren't doing as well as we are this season.

The thought of a 38,000 ground is very exciting but in my view a totally unrealistic total if we are talking about filling it every week. There is ZERO chance of Reading v Charlton or Reading v Wigan having a 38,000 crowd. We'll be lucky to get 25,000.

The only chance that it could be a manageable crowd is if we got an Abramovich. Someone who just spent ridiuclous money, got world class players here then people would come from wherever to watch us. You could get a Chelsea ticket 5 years ago easy as you like, not these days. Why? because they have the best players, but he people 'following' Chelsea at the minute won't last the course.

I'd say Reading at the minute has a core of around 16,000 supporters, i really can't see us (even if we went down) getting below 15-16,000 for a home game anymore. However perspective is needed, yes this club is growing and will continue to grow but to say we can be bigger than Arsenal is farcical.

No it isn't

Your stand point is just as blinkered as the majority of fans who thought we'd struggle this season and would never get 24,000 to watch us play Wigan and Bolton etc.

Not long ago, these same people would have laughed themselves to death at the thought of anyone being mad enough to build a stadium of this size for a poxy little team like Reading

A friend of mine bought 2 hospitality seats for this season.

He lives locally but comes from the midlands and supports a midland team. Every week he sits with other like minded people who have moved here and chosen to buy a seat at the local Premiership table. Most of these people have kids who consider Berkshire to be their home and won't grow up as Wolves supporters

If you live in Bristol and fancy a game of top flight footy where might you head for

Did you hear the same Nigel Howe state recently that we could have sold out the stadium 4 times over for the Liverpool game

In the immediate area alone we have 200,000 potential customers and then we can set our sites on most of southern England..................

I can't belive that some can so hopelessly under estimate the huge potential this club has.

It wasn't lost on Robert Maxwell or the man who saved us from that revolting little spiv, and built the stadium that many fans have been locked out of all season

[Compo's Hat]

Didn't Nigel Howe say a few years back something on the lines of reading getting into europe?

[Royalee]

Europe?! You're having a laugh - you'd have to be a grade A idiot to suggest little Reading'd get into Europe.

[Very near...far away]

I don't think Maxwell was thinking about getting a Thames Valley team into Europe etc. A "joint" team in Didcot would have barely survived - the price he would have got for Elm Park and the Manor Ground was what drove him.

I always worry a bit when suits start going on about "brand" - it's nearly always a sign that the actual playing football side of things is coming a distant second to the financial side. Granted - money is what the Premiership is all about but it still wrankles.

There is no reason Reading cannot become one of the biggest clubs in England - but it will depend, eventually, on the club moving into an even larger stadium in time. The potential is definitely there. I know it would be great (yeah) if everyone who attended football matches was a diehard supporter who remembered the barren years and who could recite teams of yesteryear, but in fact it's only the ability of people to give the club their money that really counts.

The club doesn't care if people in the stadium used to support Leeds, Southampton, Oxford or Kintbury Rangers - as long as they part with their hard earned. Reading is smack in the middle of one of the most prosperous areas of the country, which spells a lot of people with cash to burn - as long as - bottom line - there's Premiership football to watch.

[Behindu]

I always worry a bit when suits start going on about "brand" - it's nearly always a sign that the actual playing football side of things is coming a distant second to the financial side. Granted - money is what the Premiership is all about but it still wrankles.

Although if you look at the clubs with the strongest 'brands' they also have pretty strong footballing traditions, and a lot of trophies - Man Utd, Real Madrid, Celtic, Barcelona, Liverpool....

There isn;t too much mileage in developing a 'brand' and getting relegated, you need to be successful or else no one wants to be associated with you.

I'm get a bit edgy when people start using terms such as 'suits'. You'd think the people who run RFC had just joined us from a management consultancy ! Our senior people have all been there since we were a struggling club at crumbling EP and have seen us through to where we are now. Love them or loath them I think they deserve a little respect - they haven't exactly neglected th eplaying side !

[Stranded]

I always worry a bit when suits start going on about "brand" - it's nearly always a sign that the actual playing football side of things is coming a distant second to the financial side. Granted - money is what the Premiership is all about but it still wrankles.

Although if you look at the clubs with the strongest 'brands' they also have pretty strong footballing traditions, and a lot of trophies - Man Utd, Real Madrid, Celtic, Barcelona, Liverpool....

There isn;t too much mileage in developing a 'brand' and getting relegated, you need to be successful or else no one wants to be associated with you.

I'm get a bit edgy when people start using terms such as 'suits'. You'd think the people who run RFC had just joined us from a management consultancy ! Our senior people have all been there since we were a struggling club at crumbling EP and have seen us through to where we are now. Love them or loath them I think they deserve a little respect - they haven't exactly neglected th eplaying side !

That's it really, we can't develop the brand without winning anything and the chances of us currently winning any thing or a regular basis is pretty slim due to the climate of English football.

The potential is there for us to be as big a club as an Arsenal but it is a long term view (we are talking decades here) simply because of where we are and the potential growth we could see. Currently we are more likely to slip back in to the Football League.

Look at it this way would you rather your club is aiming to become one of the biggest/best in the land over time or would you rather they aim to be the next Coventry/Southampton - 20/30 odd years in the top flight not really acheiving anything bar a couple of cup finals possibly winning one before disappearing back in to the lower divisions and having to start all over again.

[Sir Rodney Effing]

There is one thing people are forgetting here: Who has heard of Reading outside of the UK? There has been talk of our catchment area etc. but if we're going to realise this potential Howe is talking of, we need support all over the world - not just Reading, Bracknell and Basingstoke. LA Galaxy have made £6M out of Beckham since Goldenballs signed for them (shirt sales etc), has Seol done the same for us? Potential is a strange word, Bullivent is potentially the best manager in the world you know. Still, who would have thought when that old cab driver was in charge, we would potentially be in line for a place in Europe in less than ten years time [at the time of his brief reign over the Royals]?

[zac naloen]

There is one thing people are forgetting here: Who has heard of Reading outside of the UK? There has been talk of our catchment area etc. but if we're going to realise this potential Howe is talking of, we need support all over the world - not just Reading, Bracknell and Basingstoke. LA Galaxy have made £6M out of Beckham since Goldenballs signed for them (shirt sales etc), has Seol done the same for us? Potential is a strange word, Bullivent is potentially the best manager in the world you know. Still, who would have thought when that old cab driver was in charge, we would potentially be in line for a place in Europe in less than ten years time [at the time of his brief reign over the Royals]?

You do realise that the premiership gets broadcasted out to pretty much every country that has anyone that follows football? These days anyone who follows English football will have heard of Reading and all accounts are, most people like what they've seen.

[Sir Rodney Effing]

You do realise that the premiership gets broadcasted out to pretty much every country that has anyone that follows football? These days anyone who follows English football will have heard of Reading and all accounts are, most people like what they've seen.[/quote]

Fair point mate actually. If we can repeat this season a few times - Howe knows Howe we'll do? (sorry...)

[Alan Partridge]

Europe?! You're having a laugh - you'd have to be a grade A idiot to suggest little Reading'd get into Europe.

That's actually not that ridiuclous even when we were in the 2nd division, that's a realistic aim that any club that goes the right way could achieve. Saying Reading will be bigger than Arsenal though is just

[Stranded]

Europe?! You're having a laugh - you'd have to be a grade A idiot to suggest little Reading'd get into Europe.

That's actually that ridiuclous even when we were in the 2nd division, that's a realistic aim that any club that goes the right way could achieve. Saying Reading will be bigger than Arsenal though is just

As I said though what would you rather:

A board who are targetting becoming one of the biggest clubs in the country over time or a board who are just happy to be here and make up the numbers?

[RG30]

Catchment area is all well and good, and I don't question we'll sell out 5 or 6 games a season but for fans to turn up on a regular basis to watch the likes of Wigan and Blackburn who with the greatest respect have the lure factor is asking too much.

[Alan Partridge]

Europe?! You're having a laugh - you'd have to be a grade A idiot to suggest little Reading'd get into Europe.

That's actually that ridiuclous even when we were in the 2nd division, that's a realistic aim that any club that goes the right way could achieve. Saying Reading will be bigger than Arsenal though is just

As I said though what would you rather:

A board who are targetting becoming one of the biggest clubs in the country over time or a board who are just happy to be here and make up the numbers?

There's nothing worng with ambition and havign high hopes for this club. A better and more realistic aim would be to say we want to be regularly competitive at the top end of this division, we want to have a consisitent fanbase for home matches of 30,000 for whoever we're playing. We want to be regarded as a big and attractive club in the future, things like that would still be good to hear and would still be ambitious. But come on Reading bigger than arsenal is ludicrous. It certainly won't happen in any of our lifetimes, Arsenal is a WORLDWIDE brand if you like and it's taken them 60 odd years of success to achieve that.

Reading could be a very decent 'big' Premiership club with the right investment and success on the pitch, but we won't ever be as big as Arsenal, Liverpoool, United etc.

[readingbedding]

As long as we play good football on the pitch, and the ST price doesn't take the piss, I don't care about anything else, be it brand, expansion or what not.

[Stranded]

Europe?! You're having a laugh - you'd have to be a grade A idiot to suggest little Reading'd get into Europe.

That's actually that ridiuclous even when we were in the 2nd division, that's a realistic aim that any club that goes the right way could achieve. Saying Reading will be bigger than Arsenal though is just

As I said though what would you rather:

A board who are targetting becoming one of the biggest clubs in the country over time or a board who are just happy to be here and make up the numbers?

There's nothing worng with ambition and havign high hopes for this club. A better and more realistic aim would be to say we want to be regularly competitive at the top end of this division, we want to have a consisitent fanbase for home matches of 30,000 for whoever we're playing. We want to be regarded as a big and attractive club in the future, things like that would still be good to hear and would still be ambitious. But come on Reading bigger than arsenal is ludicrous. It certainly won't happen in any of our lifetimes, Arsenal is a WORLDWIDE brand if you like and it's taken them 60 odd years of success to achieve that.

Reading could be a very decent 'big' Premiership club with the right investment and success on the pitch, but we won't ever be as big as Arsenal, Liverpoool, United etc.

But he's not set a time limit on it has he? All he's said is we have the potential to be bigger than Arsenal not that we will be bigger than Arsenal.

If you actually look at what he's said rather than what you think he's said then he's saying that Arsenal won the double in '71 and were seen as fashionable club and raised the level of their "brand" as a result. Other clubs that were big at that time have fallen away and are now not seen as big or popular.

If we continue to grow and as a result of thar growth get in to the CL regularly and win trophies then than means that one of the big four will have to fall away as we are growing - arguably the most fragile of those currently are Arsenal then it is not inconceivable that managed correctly we could or would become a more popular choice of club to follow esp to foreign fans.

A lot of fans in the Far East for example often support the more successful clubs and change alleigance rather than supporting one club through life. I'd agree that this may not happen in our lifetimes but he's actually just put across decent football business and no more.

[Bowman's Quiver]

But i've already said my piece in a word

Howe is seriously deLOLuded if he thinks we can be bigger than Arsenal. Arsenal have more fans in Reading than there are Reading fans.

We'll never be as 'big' as them, there is only 2 clubs in England 'bigger' than them and probably only ever will be 2.

With a set of blinkers this big forget football and try horse racing.

anyone thinking Reading can be as big as Arsenal is a grade A idiot.

It's taken Arsenal years and years and years to build up their trophy collection, their WORLDWIDE fanbase, thier 60,000 stadium which they fill every week.

Whereas Reading can just about fill a 24,000 ground, have ZERO chance of seling out a 38,000 ground EVERY week and have won pricelessly nothing compared to Arsenal.

The only way we can compete with a club like that is if Madejski sold us to an 'abramovich' type, but just like Chelsea still wouldn't have the same appeal or 'size' (if you like) of Arsenal.

But feel free to believe these little pipedreams. BTW Santa isn't real either.

Why stop at Arsenal? We can be bigger than Real Madrid.

In 1986 Arsenal's average league attendance - a season in which they finished 10th in the old first division - was 23.824. Ground capacity was in excess of 40,000.

In 2007 Reading's average league attendance is - with two home games still to factor in - is 23844. Ground capacity is 24225. The 1.6% average spare capacity in the ground is almost exclusively in the away end.

Even as late as 1993 the average attendance at Highbury was less than 24500.

Thus, Arsenal haven't taken quite as long to build up the massive support they now enjoy as you suggest.

[readingboy]

YER

[Bucks Dave]

I think Howe should have said "We'll never be as big as clubs like Arsenal so we're not going to bother even trying".

Does that sound better?

[Winchester Royal]

If the club has a strategy that it thinks will work, then by all means go for it.

It might sound far fetched, and I don't think we'll ever be as big as one of the Big 4, but theres not harm having the ambition and putting the plans in place to try.