shhhhh
stop ruining our chat
New signing today
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brendywendy
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SpaceCruiser
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brendywendy
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I've been living and working in France for over ten years now, and I can assure Mr Hampshire and Mr Wax Jacket that you are exaggerating somewhat!
I work with a large number of 'North Africans' as you call them, as well as Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Africans, and I live in Belleville, Paris where Tunisian 'immigrant' families with both Muslim and Jewish backgrounds live side by side, and rub shoulders with their newer Chinese neighbours, and there's never a hint of trouble.
Sarkozy is undoubtedly authoritarian, but don't forget that this won him a large proportion of the 'north african' vote in the suburbs! And you should certainly not make the mistake of thinking suburbs = north african immigrants! France made a terrible mistake in the 1960s by moving the lower, working classes out of the centres of the cities into new self-contained high rise towns in the suburbs, but they did it with the best of intentions. City centre housing was in a terrible state then, and people jumped at the chance of having new, bigger housing elsewhere. Today these communities have proven to be a failure, and have a terrible reputation. Whatever your origin, be it 'French', 'North African', 'Italian' or 'Portuguese', growing up in one of these communities would automatically mean poor schooling and more unemployment.
So, in conclusion, this is not a race issue but a class issue. I'm far from being a supporter of Sarkozy, but I do not believe him to be a 'nazi' either. In the last 10-20 years, both the left and the right have failed to solve this problem, with the only possible solution being the mass destruction and rebuilding of these communities, and an attempt to attract more businesses and the middle-classes into these areas to offer a greater social mix.
Finally, the French health system is the best in the world and no, they (we - I pay for it too!) can't afford it. However, this is more because just about every single French person abuses it! They go to see five different doctors each time they are ill, each doctor prescribes at least 6 different medicines each time, the opticians and dentists cheat the system to ensure they get the maximum possible income from each patient etc etc.
I work with a large number of 'North Africans' as you call them, as well as Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Africans, and I live in Belleville, Paris where Tunisian 'immigrant' families with both Muslim and Jewish backgrounds live side by side, and rub shoulders with their newer Chinese neighbours, and there's never a hint of trouble.
Sarkozy is undoubtedly authoritarian, but don't forget that this won him a large proportion of the 'north african' vote in the suburbs! And you should certainly not make the mistake of thinking suburbs = north african immigrants! France made a terrible mistake in the 1960s by moving the lower, working classes out of the centres of the cities into new self-contained high rise towns in the suburbs, but they did it with the best of intentions. City centre housing was in a terrible state then, and people jumped at the chance of having new, bigger housing elsewhere. Today these communities have proven to be a failure, and have a terrible reputation. Whatever your origin, be it 'French', 'North African', 'Italian' or 'Portuguese', growing up in one of these communities would automatically mean poor schooling and more unemployment.
So, in conclusion, this is not a race issue but a class issue. I'm far from being a supporter of Sarkozy, but I do not believe him to be a 'nazi' either. In the last 10-20 years, both the left and the right have failed to solve this problem, with the only possible solution being the mass destruction and rebuilding of these communities, and an attempt to attract more businesses and the middle-classes into these areas to offer a greater social mix.
Finally, the French health system is the best in the world and no, they (we - I pay for it too!) can't afford it. However, this is more because just about every single French person abuses it! They go to see five different doctors each time they are ill, each doctor prescribes at least 6 different medicines each time, the opticians and dentists cheat the system to ensure they get the maximum possible income from each patient etc etc.
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Basingstoke Royal
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SpaceCruiser
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brendywendySpaceCruiserIan Royal PS did you know Switzerland is the only European Country without a head of state.
How's that? By that, do you mean a monarch? Cos France doesn't have a King!
no he means head of state like he said
head of state like a king/queen, or a president which france do have
If that's the case, then fair enough. Why doesn't Switzerland have a head of state, would anyone care to explain?
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brendywendy
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Biscuit Because Switzerland is just a mish-mash of 'Cantons' filled with people speaking 4 different languages. It's not a country as such, more a land populated by disparate peoples who are simply artificially stuck together by money!
its a political thing too
the cantons can be quite adversarial and it would be difficult for all of them to agree on anything
Biscuit Because Switzerland is just a mish-mash of 'Cantons' filled with people speaking 4 different languages. It's not a country as such, more a land populated by disparate peoples who are simply artificially stuck together by money!
Like all the other federal countries in the world then - like the USA, Germany, Australia....
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brendywendy
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'lista Yes, yes, yes, but what, exactly, have the last 15 or so pages of this thread got to do with football? What is this fcuking website, a sixth form debating society?
switzerland is a country, so is france
our new signing ids french
thats a big enough link for me.
what football would you like to talk about?
will real madrid win the spanish title?
isnt it funny that bayern didnt make the champions league?
who do you fancy in the champions league final?
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SpaceCruiser
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brendywendy
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Sir Rodney Effing
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brendywendyBiscuit Because Switzerland is just a mish-mash of 'Cantons' filled with people speaking 4 different languages. It's not a country as such, more a land populated by disparate peoples who are simply artificially stuck together by money!
its a political thing too
the cantons can be quite adversarial and it would be difficult for all of them to agree on anything
Actually this is an urban myth. It's not quite true. They do have a president, Schmidt I think it still is, he oversees and ultimately can overule the Cantonas (sic) like Tony Bliar (sic) oversees the cabinet; ergo their president is their Head of State.
What are our latest odds for getting into Europe next season, anyway?
Biscuit I've been living and working in France for over ten years now, and I can assure Mr Hampshire and Mr Wax Jacket that you are exaggerating somewhat!
I work with a large number of 'North Africans' as you call them, as well as Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Africans, and I live in Belleville, Paris where Tunisian 'immigrant' families with both Muslim and Jewish backgrounds live side by side, and rub shoulders with their newer Chinese neighbours, and there's never a hint of trouble.
Sarkozy is undoubtedly authoritarian, but don't forget that this won him a large proportion of the 'north african' vote in the suburbs! And you should certainly not make the mistake of thinking suburbs = north african immigrants! France made a terrible mistake in the 1960s by moving the lower, working classes out of the centres of the cities into new self-contained high rise towns in the suburbs, but they did it with the best of intentions. City centre housing was in a terrible state then, and people jumped at the chance of having new, bigger housing elsewhere. Today these communities have proven to be a failure, and have a terrible reputation. Whatever your origin, be it 'French', 'North African', 'Italian' or 'Portuguese', growing up in one of these communities would automatically mean poor schooling and more unemployment.
So, in conclusion, this is not a race issue but a class issue. I'm far from being a supporter of Sarkozy, but I do not believe him to be a 'nazi' either. In the last 10-20 years, both the left and the right have failed to solve this problem, with the only possible solution being the mass destruction and rebuilding of these communities, and an attempt to attract more businesses and the middle-classes into these areas to offer a greater social mix.
Finally, the French health system is the best in the world and no, they (we - I pay for it too!) can't afford it. However, this is more because just about every single French person abuses it! They go to see five different doctors each time they are ill, each doctor prescribes at least 6 different medicines each time, the opticians and dentists cheat the system to ensure they get the maximum possible income from each patient etc etc.
It's about time someone broadened the hobnob horizon, tres bien biscuit
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SpaceCruiser
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foolBiscuit I've been living and working in France for over ten years now, and I can assure Mr Hampshire and Mr Wax Jacket that you are exaggerating somewhat!
I work with a large number of 'North Africans' as you call them, as well as Portuguese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Africans, and I live in Belleville, Paris where Tunisian 'immigrant' families with both Muslim and Jewish backgrounds live side by side, and rub shoulders with their newer Chinese neighbours, and there's never a hint of trouble.
Sarkozy is undoubtedly authoritarian, but don't forget that this won him a large proportion of the 'north african' vote in the suburbs! And you should certainly not make the mistake of thinking suburbs = north african immigrants! France made a terrible mistake in the 1960s by moving the lower, working classes out of the centres of the cities into new self-contained high rise towns in the suburbs, but they did it with the best of intentions. City centre housing was in a terrible state then, and people jumped at the chance of having new, bigger housing elsewhere. Today these communities have proven to be a failure, and have a terrible reputation. Whatever your origin, be it 'French', 'North African', 'Italian' or 'Portuguese', growing up in one of these communities would automatically mean poor schooling and more unemployment.
So, in conclusion, this is not a race issue but a class issue. I'm far from being a supporter of Sarkozy, but I do not believe him to be a 'nazi' either. In the last 10-20 years, both the left and the right have failed to solve this problem, with the only possible solution being the mass destruction and rebuilding of these communities, and an attempt to attract more businesses and the middle-classes into these areas to offer a greater social mix.
Finally, the French health system is the best in the world and no, they (we - I pay for it too!) can't afford it. However, this is more because just about every single French person abuses it! They go to see five different doctors each time they are ill, each doctor prescribes at least 6 different medicines each time, the opticians and dentists cheat the system to ensure they get the maximum possible income from each patient etc etc.
It's about time someone broadened the hobnob horizon, tres bien biscuit
Sure, but couldn't we broaden our horizons further than France?
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Hampshire Royal
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We've already broadened the discussion to include Ireland and Switzerland Spacey - what more would you like? We have a Frenchman coming over here to play for us - get over it!!
As far as the French economy goes, my experience of the treatment of North Africans (and yes, I call them N Africans because that's where their ethnicity stems from) comes from living in Annemasse, on the border of Geneva, for some time. My partner at the time was of Algerian descent, although she was born in France and is a French citizen. She has a degree in psychology, which wouldn't normally get you a job as a psychologist, but she was unable to obtain any sort of worthwhile employment and spends her time in what I would call menial jobs, cleaning etc. She lives in an apartment which, although not exactly slum status, is at the low end of the scale. Her brother, on the other hand, lives in England and has a position at Kings College as a lecturer. A friend of mine is a highly educated, very intelligent French Algerian who now lives in England. When I asked him why he lives in UK not France, he said he just got fed up with answering ads for jobs by telephone and would get the interest of the person responsible for the job until he tried to arrange an interview and gave his name as Salim Nacer. He then said that the person would suddenly find that the post had been filled!!
Switzerland is not as bad, but there is still a degree of racism here. My partner's son is just 16 and is now looking to leave school and get some sort of apprenticeship (he is black, by the way). We were speaking to a friend of ours who runs a company providing training for the unemployed and he informed us that he will find it difficult to get meaningful work because the Swiss just will not trust black people!!!
As for the Swiss being split into adverserial Cantons. Yes, there is a rivalry between Cantons - I know more Africans than I know Swiss Germans - but the feeling of being Swiss and Fribourgeoise (for example) is similar to the feeling we have of being both British and English. In reality, although we have a rivalry with the Scots, for example, it's generally a friendly one
As far as the French economy goes, my experience of the treatment of North Africans (and yes, I call them N Africans because that's where their ethnicity stems from) comes from living in Annemasse, on the border of Geneva, for some time. My partner at the time was of Algerian descent, although she was born in France and is a French citizen. She has a degree in psychology, which wouldn't normally get you a job as a psychologist, but she was unable to obtain any sort of worthwhile employment and spends her time in what I would call menial jobs, cleaning etc. She lives in an apartment which, although not exactly slum status, is at the low end of the scale. Her brother, on the other hand, lives in England and has a position at Kings College as a lecturer. A friend of mine is a highly educated, very intelligent French Algerian who now lives in England. When I asked him why he lives in UK not France, he said he just got fed up with answering ads for jobs by telephone and would get the interest of the person responsible for the job until he tried to arrange an interview and gave his name as Salim Nacer. He then said that the person would suddenly find that the post had been filled!!
Switzerland is not as bad, but there is still a degree of racism here. My partner's son is just 16 and is now looking to leave school and get some sort of apprenticeship (he is black, by the way). We were speaking to a friend of ours who runs a company providing training for the unemployed and he informed us that he will find it difficult to get meaningful work because the Swiss just will not trust black people!!!
As for the Swiss being split into adverserial Cantons. Yes, there is a rivalry between Cantons - I know more Africans than I know Swiss Germans - but the feeling of being Swiss and Fribourgeoise (for example) is similar to the feeling we have of being both British and English. In reality, although we have a rivalry with the Scots, for example, it's generally a friendly one
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