Leroy out for a while...

[loyalroyal4life]

we don't need another striker he's only out for few weeks. This will just give kitson and doyle opportunity to make sure they score goals or loose out to lita when he's back!!

[Huntley & Palmer]

Kitson was out top scorer in the Championship and he can't be judged by last season as he missed so much of it. Kitson was a better striker than Hulse in the Championship, so there's no reason why he can't score goals in the Premier League.

What on Earth has Kitson's record in the Championship got to do with anything? He's injury prone and he is our third best striker, those are the facts. He will not be pushing Doyle and Lita for their place if both are fit

[Royal Rother]

Well if he doesn't I think we might be in a bit of trouble.

And to further paint myself into the negative corner, I think a lot of Reading fans are guilty of complacency. 'We'll be alright', 'we were fine last season', 'Kitson is back' - why are Reading fans so oblivious to other teams around us improving (at least on paper). West Ham, Newcastle, Fulham, Man City could all be much better sides than we faced last season.

Have just been talking about this with guys in the office - and we could only come up with Derby, Brum and Wigan who should, conceivably fare worse than Reading this season. That's not a long list, and doing 'as well as we did last year' won't get us as many points. I am hugely concerned about relegation this season, and I think a list of backup strikers (not including midfielders who can play up front) that reads Shane Long and Simon Cox is not allaying my fears.

And how did you feel this time last year?

[Stranded]

Well if he doesn't I think we might be in a bit of trouble.

And to further paint myself into the negative corner, I think a lot of Reading fans are guilty of complacency. 'We'll be alright', 'we were fine last season', 'Kitson is back' - why are Reading fans so oblivious to other teams around us improving (at least on paper). West Ham, Newcastle, Fulham, Man City could all be much better sides than we faced last season.

Have just been talking about this with guys in the office - and we could only come up with Derby, Brum and Wigan who should, conceivably fare worse than Reading this season. That's not a long list, and doing 'as well as we did last year' won't get us as many points. I am hugely concerned about relegation this season, and I think a list of backup strikers (not including midfielders who can play up front) that reads Shane Long and Simon Cox is not allaying my fears.

Can't have been a long conversation if that's all you could come up with. Teams that could conceivably do worse than us next year:

Derby
Sunderland
Wigan
Fulham
Birmingham
Bolton
Middlesboro

And that's just of the top of my head, could easily be more - for a start Boro have lost Viduka and could lose Yakubu - that's their strikeforce gone - all the others have changed their sides beyond comprehension, not always a good sign.

They could do better than us or they could do worse, until we get going it'll be hard to say but to say that you can only see 3 teams that could potentially be worse than us is surprising.

[Vision]

Well if he doesn't I think we might be in a bit of trouble.

And to further paint myself into the negative corner, I think a lot of Reading fans are guilty of complacency. 'We'll be alright', 'we were fine last season', 'Kitson is back' - why are Reading fans so oblivious to other teams around us improving (at least on paper). West Ham, Newcastle, Fulham, Man City could all be much better sides than we faced last season.

Have just been talking about this with guys in the office - and we could only come up with Derby, Brum and Wigan who should, conceivably fare worse than Reading this season. That's not a long list, and doing 'as well as we did last year' won't get us as many points. I am hugely concerned about relegation this season, and I think a list of backup strikers (not including midfielders who can play up front) that reads Shane Long and Simon Cox is not allaying my fears.

And how did you feel this time last year?

Beat me to it.

Edit. I don't think its complacency but the simple fact is that buying players does not necessarily equate to strengthening. Plenty of sides spent money last season but were no better than the year before.

As for Long and Cox. They are 4th and 5th choice strikers. One is a full International and the other is a local lad trying to make the grade. Sure both have yet to prove they can cut it in this League but they are exactly the type that we should have as our 4th and 5th choices for all positions at this club.

Also I'm not convinced that any of the strikers mentioned in this thread would get above Kitson, Lita or Doyle in Coppell's pecking order. That being the case i'm not sure any of them would want to come to us as a 4th choice striker.

[cmonurz]

To reply and just some further points for discussion. I agree that in general, that list of names doesn't improve on what we have (although I have always rated Helguson and Hulse). Which would bring me on to my next 'moan' which would be that we are not making efforts to compete financially for better players.

As for 'did I feel like this last season?' Yes I did, I predicted we would finish 19th. On the back of our success last season I am plumping for 17th this time around.

Sorry, but I am not convinced our squad will be anywhere near as competitive this time around.

[LUX]

Oh God, it's the football season again .

As some agreed last week, I'd take 17th place with an exciting finish.

Lita is infuritating as a player, but we do need him.

[Vision]

To reply and just some further points for discussion. I agree that in general, that list of names doesn't improve on what we have (although I have always rated Helguson and Hulse). Which would bring me on to my next 'moan' which would be that we are not making efforts to compete financially for better players.

As for 'did I feel like this last season?' Yes I did, I predicted we would finish 19th. On the back of our success last season I am plumping for 17th this time around.

Sorry, but I am not convinced our squad will be anywhere near as competitive this time around.

Well we're not competitive in terms of 80% of the player market for the Premiership so we're always going to be vulnerable in terms of the strengthening of squads "on paper" .

However that completely ignores the "strengths" that we possess, the strengths that took us so far last season. Coppell has "built" a team based on the fundamental principles of teamwork, endeavour and no little skill. Its the point that an awful lot of managers are missing while they throw around money they can't really afford on players that are, in an awful lot of cases mediocre to say the least.

Don't get me wrong i also think it will be harder this season due to the loss of Sidwell's influence and leadership (although whose to say Cisse or Fae don't match that or even add another dimension ) as well as Little's wit and imagination in the final 3rd. However over a 38 game league season i'd back "Coppell's Way" to see us retain our status over and above spending millions on mediocre individuals who won't/can't fit into our framework.

Let the others do it their way, we'll just concentrate on doing whats best for us. It's not served us too badly so far.

[Scarface]

Well if he doesn't I think we might be in a bit of trouble.

And to further paint myself into the negative corner, I think a lot of Reading fans are guilty of complacency. 'We'll be alright', 'we were fine last season', 'Kitson is back' - why are Reading fans so oblivious to other teams around us improving (at least on paper). West Ham, Newcastle, Fulham, Man City could all be much better sides than we faced last season.

Have just been talking about this with guys in the office - and we could only come up with Derby, Brum and Wigan who should, conceivably fare worse than Reading this season. That's not a long list, and doing 'as well as we did last year' won't get us as many points. I am hugely concerned about relegation this season, and I think a list of backup strikers (not including midfielders who can play up front) that reads Shane Long and Simon Cox is not allaying my fears.

I couldn't agree more.

[Skyline]

Well we're not competitive in terms of 80% of the player market for the Premiership so we're always going to be vulnerable in terms of the strengthening of squads "on paper" .

However that completely ignores the "strengths" that we possess, the strengths that took us so far last season. Coppell has "built" a team based on the fundamental principles of teamwork, endeavour and no little skill. Its the point that an awful lot of managers are missing while they throw around money they can't really afford on players that are, in an awful lot of cases mediocre to say the least.

Don't get me wrong i also think it will be harder this season due to the loss of Sidwell's influence and leadership (although whose to say Cisse or Fae don't match that or even add another dimension ) as well as Little's wit and imagination in the final 3rd. However over a 38 game league season i'd back "Coppell's Way" to see us retain our status over and above spending millions on mediocre individuals who won't/can't fit into our framework.

Let the others do it their way, we'll just concentrate on doing whats best for us. It's not served us too badly so far.

As ever Vision, eloquently put and correct.

[Scarface]

Well we're not competitive in terms of 80% of the player market for the Premiership so we're always going to be vulnerable in terms of the strengthening of squads "on paper" .

However that completely ignores the "strengths" that we possess, the strengths that took us so far last season. Coppell has "built" a team based on the fundamental principles of teamwork, endeavour and no little skill. Its the point that an awful lot of managers are missing while they throw around money they can't really afford on players that are, in an awful lot of cases mediocre to say the least.

Don't get me wrong i also think it will be harder this season due to the loss of Sidwell's influence and leadership (although whose to say Cisse or Fae don't match that or even add another dimension ) as well as Little's wit and imagination in the final 3rd. However over a 38 game league season i'd back "Coppell's Way" to see us retain our status over and above spending millions on mediocre individuals who won't/can't fit into our framework.

Let the others do it their way, we'll just concentrate on doing whats best for us. It's not served us too badly so far.

As ever Vision, eloquently put and correct.

I agree with all that as well, but I'd still like us to sign another striker and winger to bolster the squad.

[Hoop Blah]

As much as I want our current forwards to perform it's pinning a lot on their shoulders. I do believe that we have to throw these kids in the test them otherwise they miss the opportunity to learn and improve and all to quickly become lower league players (this is the reason I think our academy hasn't worked in recent years, not the time lag behind the 1st team etc).

I do worry that we're a forward light though, mainly because of Kitson's injury record and a lack of a physcial/linkup option apart from him (I suppose Cox can play that second forward role though) and I think that is a high risk gamble going into the season light upfront. To my mind we got away with it last season and I hope we see the same result this year.

However, we have to accept that the team Coppell has built will need investment to keep it at it's current level. The squad has hit it's peak with the current personnel and we no longer have the luxury of developing it slowly whilst pushing for promotion. We have to be hitting a much higher level of performance week in week out to maintain our position on the Premiership gravey train. As much as it would be nice to continue doing it on a relative shoe string, at some point we're going to have to buy proven quality, which comes at a price, in order to compete at the level we've got to.

[Platypuss]

Out for up to four weeks according to SSN

Sc confirms 3 or 4 weeks out.

Just hope they're not Kitsonweeks.

[Royal Rother]

However, we have to accept that the team Coppell has built will need investment to keep it at it's current level.

The squad has hit it's peak with the current personnel and we no longer have the luxury of developing it slowly whilst pushing for promotion.

We have to be hitting a much higher level of performance week in week out to maintain our position on the Premiership gravey train.

As much as it would be nice to continue doing it on a relative shoe string, at some point we're going to have to buy proven quality, which comes at a price, in order to compete at the level we've got to.

I don't see how any of that makes sense when you look at the fact that we finished 8th with a team completely new to The Premiership last year.

[Stranded]

As much as I want our current forwards to perform it's pinning a lot on their shoulders. I do believe that we have to throw these kids in the test them otherwise they miss the opportunity to learn and improve and all to quickly become lower league players (this is the reason I think our academy hasn't worked in recent years, not the time lag behind the 1st team etc).

I do worry that we're a forward light though, mainly because of Kitson's injury record and a lack of a physcial/linkup option apart from him (I suppose Cox can play that second forward role though) and I think that is a high risk gamble going into the season light upfront. To my mind we got away with it last season and I hope we see the same result this year.

However, we have to accept that the team Coppell has built will need investment to keep it at it's current level. The squad has hit it's peak with the current personnel and we no longer have the luxury of developing it slowly whilst pushing for promotion. We have to be hitting a much higher level of performance week in week out to maintain our position on the Premiership gravey train. As much as it would be nice to continue doing it on a relative shoe string, at some point we're going to have to buy proven quality, which comes at a price, in order to compete at the level we've got to.

That's a big statement to make regards the side having hit their peak. It's accepted that most players in football don't peak until around 28 years old. The majority of our side are younger than that suggesting they still have room to improve. This makes the right investment even more important.

[Vision]

As much as I want our current forwards to perform it's pinning a lot on their shoulders. I do believe that we have to throw these kids in the test them otherwise they miss the opportunity to learn and improve and all to quickly become lower league players (this is the reason I think our academy hasn't worked in recent years, not the time lag behind the 1st team etc).

I do worry that we're a forward light though, mainly because of Kitson's injury record and a lack of a physcial/linkup option apart from him (I suppose Cox can play that second forward role though) and I think that is a high risk gamble going into the season light upfront. To my mind we got away with it last season and I hope we see the same result this year.

However, we have to accept that the team Coppell has built will need investment to keep it at it's current level. The squad has hit it's peak with the current personnel and we no longer have the luxury of developing it slowly whilst pushing for promotion. We have to be hitting a much higher level of performance week in week out to maintain our position on the Premiership gravey train. As much as it would be nice to continue doing it on a relative shoe string, at some point we're going to have to buy proven quality, which comes at a price, in order to compete at the level we've got to.

Several good points there, but the simple fact is that we're only light upfront if you believe that the 4 strikers we have + Cox aren't enough. Coppell, not just this season, but from the very beginning of last season, clearly thinks differently. If we add Cox as a 5th choice forward, a local lad who scored against the French Champions pre-season ( i know it was only a friendly but it doesn't make it any less of a fact ) then arguably we're better off than 12 months ago. Anyone who thinks we can get a better calibre than that as a 5th choice for a position at this club is deluded i'm afraid.
I've no doubt we are on the lookout for forwards to improve ( as with all other positions ) the team but not at the prices the current market place is dictating.

Investment in the team also doesn't just come down to a financial nature. It is also about investing time and faith in those on the fringes of the first team. One of the "strengths" of our way of doing things is that whatever the fans opinion of individual players abilities , for the most part they still seem to fit in pretty effortlessly when they have been called upon. The downside of a smaller tight knit squad is that 2 injuries in 1 position will leave us relying heavily on those unproven players to take on more responsibility. Outside of the very top sides though, that is is the case with the rest of the division regardless of how much they spend on individual players. We're all vulnerable to injuries though and we've coped ok with the long term ones we suffered last season.

The one point i don't understand is this "getting away with it last season" comment. We didn't escape relegation by the skin of our teeth, we finished 8th. We didn't pull off some sort of scam on the rest of the Premiership last season. We just used common sense and decent basic principles. These are 2 attributes that appear completely alien in English football at this moment in time so i suppose its no wonder that people are so surprised at our acheivements.

[Hoop Blah]

However, we have to accept that the team Coppell has built will need investment to keep it at it's current level.

The squad has hit it's peak with the current personnel and we no longer have the luxury of developing it slowly whilst pushing for promotion.

We have to be hitting a much higher level of performance week in week out to maintain our position on the Premiership gravey train.

As much as it would be nice to continue doing it on a relative shoe string, at some point we're going to have to buy proven quality, which comes at a price, in order to compete at the level we've got to.

I don't see how any of that makes sense when you look at the fact that we finished 8th with a team completely new to The Premiership last year.

Because the current squad, as it is, has probably peaked. It's taken 4 or 5 years to put together and mature in the Championship before excelling last season.

We've already lost a driving force in Sidwell, and the players we've helped develop whilst building the squad are now being coveted by clubs with more money to throw at them. Couple that with a few key characters/players getting to an age where their best days are probably behind them (Marcus, Murty, Little and to a lesser extent Ivar) and the squad is going to need some serious rebuilding.

Fergie and Wenger's biggest achievements over the last 10-15 years have been rebuilding sides as the heart of each side has moved on. I don't think we're far off having to do the same even though the likes of Shorey, Harper, Convey, Doyle, Lita etc are young, keeping hold of them will be very difficult.

[Huntley & Palmer]

Out for up to four weeks according to SSN

Sc confirms 3 or 4 weeks out.

Just hope they're not Kitsonweeks.

God help us if it is

[Hoop Blah]

I've no doubt we are on the lookout for forwards to improve ( as with all other positions ) the team but not at the prices the current market place is dictating.

Thats the key, pushing the boat out to improve and get better players than we're got, not just accept that we can't and plod along without investing to make us stronger. Having said that I still think a player like Helguson or Hulse gives us something different within the squad. Even if not better than our current players they make the squad better.

Investment in the team also doesn't just come down to a financial nature. It is also about investing time and faith in those on the fringes of the first team.

Totally agree, and hope that Cox and Long can make the grade. Personally, from the performances I've seen from them, I would rather we had better options right now and their development was done at Championship level for a few months or a season. Maybe their time is now though, I hope so.

The one point i don't understand is this "getting away with it last season" comment. We didn't escape relegation by the skin of our teeth, we finished 8th.

I think we were lacking in options and depth upfront, which was pretty clear to see when Seol and Long had to play upfront quite a few times. I think we got away with having a lack of quality up there at times. We finished where we deserved to because of the teams performances and results over the season, but personally I thought, and still think, we got away with not having much upfront at times.

[79Royal]

It's about 3 weeks to the end of the transfer window, so if we are really struggling, I'm sure Coppell will bring in another signing, or possibly a loan.