Sorry, but I am already pissed off with Seol

[Rawlie19]

Seal wasn't booed today from what I could hear. And groaning isn't the same as booing you know. People might have let out a groan everytime he did something wrong, or didn't do something he should have, but I thnk we're quite in our rights to do that. Don't remember any booing.

Who mentioned booing?

Ok, abuse then. A groan is not abuse. But that is what Floyd said had happened after 11 minutes. I don't recall this happening from where I was. But then I was sat just yards away from both Sonko and the Hahnemann clan (both of which I would assume wouldn't resort to that kind of behaviour...)

I didn't hear much abuse either and I was sat not far behind Floyd.

Well Floyd was the one saying he was abused, I'm saying he wasn't FFS!

[Franchise FC]

Can someone explain to me how they KNOW that Seol isn't trying the best way he knows how ?

Which one of you has spoken in depth to him about how hard HE thinks he's trying ?

Who has spoken directly to Sir Steve to find out whether HE thinks Seol is trying ?

Answers on a postcard please.

[Top Flight]

So you are criticising Seol then.

Is criticism a very bad thing then?

If Virgin Media charges you £40 per month and promises 20 Megabyte broadband speeds and only delivers 4 Megabytes do you not think they should be criticised?

If the government takes us to war in Iraq and the majority of people didn't agree with that policy, do you not think the goverment deserves to be criticised?

If you are let down by someone, is not right to criticise?

If Seol lets the fans down by not trying do you think he should not be criticised?

I am not criticising Seol on one performance against Man U. More often than not, when he wears the shirt he doesn't try. He has consistently underperformed. He deserves criticism.

He should work harder. Thats all.

[Top Flight]

Can someone explain to me how they KNOW that Seol isn't trying the best way he knows how ?

Which one of you has spoken in depth to him about how hard HE thinks he's trying ?

Who has spoken directly to Sir Steve to find out whether HE thinks Seol is trying ?

Answers on a postcard please.

People can only comment on what they see on the pitch.

What I see on the pitch is the picture of a man who can't be ars*d.

[Huntley & Palmer]

David Beckham.....
Ronaldo..........
Lampard......

Seol is too sensitive....

A player doesn't have to openly say that booing fans improved their game.

Of course booing hurts a persons feelings......

But if a player is poor for 6 weeks, gets booed on a regular basis and then comes back stronger, then clearly criticism has worked!

The more Beckham gets criticised in the press and media and booed by fans the stronger his performances tend to be on the pitch.

I respect Beckham for that........ His attitude is to prove everyone wrong and take the abuse on the chin! I have alot of respect for that. Obviously it upsets him and clearly it hurts his feelings. But his attitude and response is first class.

Seol's attitude appears to be completely different. The more he is criticised the weaker he becomes. So if we do want him to perform we need to start showing him some love!

As far as I am aware, only David Beckham was boo'ed in an England shirt when England went out of the Euro Championships in 2000. Other than that, the others were booed by the opposition fans and not their own. Your example is that Seol's OWN fans should should boo him to make him aware that they want him to work harder, which is frankly a load of bollocks.

Oh and I forgot Lampard did get booed for England and here is his comment

"Lampard, who was booed by some fans in the 1-1 draw with Brazil on Friday, wants no repeat of the abuse they received away to Andorra in March.

He said: "It's not helpful to the team. It's a bit upsetting but you have to be big enough to take that."

[Franchise FC]

Can someone explain to me how they KNOW that Seol isn't trying the best way he knows how ?

Which one of you has spoken in depth to him about how hard HE thinks he's trying ?

Who has spoken directly to Sir Steve to find out whether HE thinks Seol is trying ?

Answers on a postcard please.

People can only comment on what they see on the pitch.

What I see on the pitch is the picture of a man who can't be ars*d.

But that's sort of my point - you don't know that he isn't trying his all, but does it in a way that doesn't fit our preconceptions.

I'm not saying that is the case, but I don't think any of the boo-boys wait to find out.

(Note : am I allowed to say boo-boys or should it be boo-people to be completely pc )

[Top Flight]

David Beckham.....
Ronaldo..........
Lampard......

Seol is too sensitive....

A player doesn't have to openly say that booing fans improved their game.

Of course booing hurts a persons feelings......

But if a player is poor for 6 weeks, gets booed on a regular basis and then comes back stronger, then clearly criticism has worked!

The more Beckham gets criticised in the press and media and booed by fans the stronger his performances tend to be on the pitch.

I respect Beckham for that........ His attitude is to prove everyone wrong and take the abuse on the chin! I have alot of respect for that. Obviously it upsets him and clearly it hurts his feelings. But his attitude and response is first class.

Seol's attitude appears to be completely different. The more he is criticised the weaker he becomes. So if we do want him to perform we need to start showing him some love!

As far as I am aware, only David Beckham was boo'ed in an England shirt when England went out of the Euro Championships in 2000. Other than that, the others were booed by the opposition fans and not their own. Your example is that Seol's OWN fans should should boo him to make him aware that they want him to work harder, which is frankly a load of bollocks

On this particular thread, I am saying that booing won't work with Seol.

I have made a complete U turn because in the past, I have said that booing might help Seol. But time has progressed and Seol hasn't improved. So clearly it doesnt' work for Seol. Probably due to his personality, lifestyle and pride and maybe for cultural reasons that I know nothing about!

But for English culture, where people are humble and grounded and don't take themselves too seriously and are able to self criticise, booing can spur people on to perform.

If someone is roundly criticised for not trying hard, in English culture, often the person will take the attitude that they have to prove the doubters wrong. Reading as a collective have this attitude.

The Press and Media over the last 2 seasons have written off our chances. But the collective group have used this to motivate themselves and prove the doubters wrong. RFC have a lets show them attitude.

You think we're going down, you think we will suffer second season syndrome. We will show you that we are a good team and that we'll do well.

Seol is the only person who doesn't seem to fit this characteristic.

[Top Flight]

Can someone explain to me how they KNOW that Seol isn't trying the best way he knows how ?

Which one of you has spoken in depth to him about how hard HE thinks he's trying ?

Who has spoken directly to Sir Steve to find out whether HE thinks Seol is trying ?

Answers on a postcard please.

People can only comment on what they see on the pitch.

What I see on the pitch is the picture of a man who can't be ars*d.

But that's sort of my point - you don't know that he isn't trying his all, but does it in a way that doesn't fit our preconceptions.

I'm not saying that is the case, but I don't think any of the boo-boys wait to find out.

(Note : am I allowed to say boo-boys or should it be boo-people to be completely pc )

I think you are overly complicating matters.

You either play well or you don't!

You either look like you are trying hard or you look like you can't be ars*d.

Whatever the background is, what matters is how it translates on the pitch.

If he isn't effecting the game in a positive way then there is a problem.

I don't give a sh*t what the background is. All I want is 100% commitment on the pitch from every player. This isn't about the Utd game, this about his performances generally.

He has had a couple of good moments but they are few and far between!

[brendywendy]

i am officialy bored of people slating seol

[Stranded]

But that is his style of play. The only difference between a good performance and bad performance is that things come off for him when playing well.

So to use his style as a stick to beat him with and say he isn't trying makes no sense as it doesn't change when he's playing well.

[brendywendy]

at last a little sense

[Huntley & Palmer]

On this particular thread, I am saying that booing won't work with Seol.

I have made a complete U turn because in the past, I have said that booing might help Seol. But time has progressed and Seol hasn't improved. So clearly it doesnt' work for Seol. Probably due to his personality, lifestyle and pride and maybe for cultural reasons that I know nothing about!

But for English culture, where people are humble and grounded and don't take themselves too seriously and are able to self criticise, booing can spur people on to perform.

If someone is roundly criticised for not trying hard, in English culture, often the person will take the attitude that they have to prove the doubters wrong. Reading as a collective have this attitude.

The Press and Media over the last 2 seasons have written off our chances. But the collective group have used this to motivate themselves and prove the doubters wrong. RFC have a lets show them attitude.

You think we're going down, you think we will suffer second season syndrome. We will show you that we are a good team and that we'll do well.

Seol is the only person who doesn't seem to fit this characteristic.

I revised my post to include a quote from Lampard when England were being booed by their own fans in the current Euro qualifiers. I think that sums up the ridiculous theory that your own fans booing a player is a characteristic that English players take on board and aim to prove people wrong.

Why are people so obsessed with players that run around a lot, surely a good player uses his skill and ability to ensure that he doesn't do this.

[Top Flight]

On this particular thread, I am saying that booing won't work with Seol.

I have made a complete U turn because in the past, I have said that booing might help Seol. But time has progressed and Seol hasn't improved. So clearly it doesnt' work for Seol. Probably due to his personality, lifestyle and pride and maybe for cultural reasons that I know nothing about!

But for English culture, where people are humble and grounded and don't take themselves too seriously and are able to self criticise, booing can spur people on to perform.

If someone is roundly criticised for not trying hard, in English culture, often the person will take the attitude that they have to prove the doubters wrong. Reading as a collective have this attitude.

The Press and Media over the last 2 seasons have written off our chances. But the collective group have used this to motivate themselves and prove the doubters wrong. RFC have a lets show them attitude.

You think we're going down, you think we will suffer second season syndrome. We will show you that we are a good team and that we'll do well.

Seol is the only person who doesn't seem to fit this characteristic.

I revised my post to include a quote from Lampard when England were being booed by their own fans in the current Euro qualifiers. I think that sums up the ridiculous theory that your own fans booing a player is a characteristic that English players take on board and aim to prove people wrong. Why are people so obsessed with players that run around a lot, surely a great player doesn't need to do this to make up for a lack of skill and is the very reason why English players as a whole are pretty average

Yeah because Lampard didn't like it.

Lampard doesn't appear to have the Beckham attitude either the lazy fat git!

[Top Flight]

On this particular thread, I am saying that booing won't work with Seol.

I have made a complete U turn because in the past, I have said that booing might help Seol. But time has progressed and Seol hasn't improved. So clearly it doesnt' work for Seol. Probably due to his personality, lifestyle and pride and maybe for cultural reasons that I know nothing about!

But for English culture, where people are humble and grounded and don't take themselves too seriously and are able to self criticise, booing can spur people on to perform.

If someone is roundly criticised for not trying hard, in English culture, often the person will take the attitude that they have to prove the doubters wrong. Reading as a collective have this attitude.

The Press and Media over the last 2 seasons have written off our chances. But the collective group have used this to motivate themselves and prove the doubters wrong. RFC have a lets show them attitude.

You think we're going down, you think we will suffer second season syndrome. We will show you that we are a good team and that we'll do well.

Seol is the only person who doesn't seem to fit this characteristic.

I revised my post to include a quote from Lampard when England were being booed by their own fans in the current Euro qualifiers. I think that sums up the ridiculous theory that your own fans booing a player is a characteristic that English players take on board and aim to prove people wrong. Why are people so obsessed with players that run around a lot, surely a great player doesn't need to do this to make up for a lack of skill and is the very reason why English players as a whole are pretty average

Who gives a sh*t what Lampard says.....

Just because Lampard says that booing didn't help, doesn't mean that it didn't help.

Englands second half performance against Andorra was a no nonsense, lets get the job done and shut these boo boys up type of performance.

Thats all the boo boys wanted in the end. If we don't win we don't qualify.
We are not gonna tolerate a bunch of prima donnas not showing up and trying for England.

As much as it hurt Lampards feelings............ It made sure the players knew how serious it was and how important it was to win. I'm sure it affected the result positively even if it didn't effect the players feelings positively.

[Huntley & Palmer]

So Lampard saying that it doesn't help is a complete lie and not the feeling of his fellow team mates as well. Tell you what, get the question posed to Coppell in a Fans Forum and let's see what he says about motivational techniques that help players from a crowd perspective.

[andrew1957]

Booing one of our own players can never be justified.

How would any of you like it if your boss came into work every day and told you you were rubbish and all you customers were also abusive to you.

As Coppell has said many times already Seol brings something different to the team - he is no Glen Little but he is undoubtedly the best right winger we have available at present so he will keep being picked until a/ Little is available or b/ Coppell decides to sell him and buy someone else.

In the meantime I am sure that cheering Seol rather than booing him is far more likely to be effective.

[brendywendy]

and i thought all of this talk of booing our own players as some sort of motivational tool was completely ironic

how wrong i was, people actually believe this shite?

[Top Flight]

So Lampard saying that it doesn't help is a complete lie and not the feeling of his fellow team mates as well. Tell you what, get the question posed to Coppell in a Fans Forum and let's see what he says about motivational techniques that help players from a crowd perspective.

OK H&P, why don't you do that then........

There is no cut and dried answer to this......... It won't work with everyone.

Some people can get damn right offended by it and wilter.

Booing is not something that helps Seol.

But in English culture, controversy, criticisms, doubting, pressure, having your backs to the wall can spur people on to great things.......

People do respond when times are hard!

Our team have been criticised and doubted for the last 2 pre seasons. We have been written off as relegation fodder and strugglers 2 years in a row now.

Last year our team wanted to prove everyone wrong. This year the attitude is the same!

[g]

Seol was useless yesterday. To say Hunt is a headless chicken is just bandwagon punditry, if you can't see his contribution to the game then perhaps you shouldn't be defending Seol in the first place.

[Top Flight]

Booing one of our own players can never be justified.

How would any of you like it if your boss came into work every day and told you you were rubbish and all you customers were also abusive to you.

As Coppell has said many times already Seol brings something different to the team - he is no Glen Little but he is undoubtedly the best right winger we have available at present so he will keep being picked until a/ Little is available or b/ Coppell decides to sell him and buy someone else.

In the meantime I am sure that cheering Seol rather than booing him is far more likely to be effective.

I agree...........

Seol doesn't respond to booing..........

He needs to be cheered.

But he won't be cheered because fans are too p*ss*d off with him! Seol needs to earn the respect of the fans......... He needs to earn those cheers.

If he puts 90 minutes of hard work in against Chelsea, fans will start coming round to him immediately. Keep that up with another hard working 90 minutes against Everton and the fans will be cheering........

One more 90 minutes and the fans will be singing his name loudly and proudly once again.

It won't take him long to win the crowd over. Just 1 or 2 good performances and maintain that consistently from now on and he will be loved by everyone and cheered loudly!