Sorry, but I am already pissed off with Seol

[Top Flight]

I am not entrenched in either camp regarding Seol but has he done enough to warrant a first team place ?
I can remember 3(?)goals and a few crosses whereas with Little I can remember 0 goals but hundreds of crosses.
BTW neither of them can defend nor can Oster but that might not be a requirement if they make enough happen at the other end of the pitch.

On balance I feel that Seol has a long way to go before being regarded as a good enough replacement for Little and if Little continues to be injured we need to bring in another winger (as Coppell has already said so he must be uncertain whether Seol or Oster is good enough).
As for the left side I have doubts about both Convey and Hunt but we come back to the "What do you expect? We came 8th last season which should be good enough for any real fan" argument.
I think to get anywhere near 8th we need to fill the big gap left by Sidwell (especially from an attacking point of view) and by Little-the new signings may well do even better and only time will tell so possibly there is no need to worry but as Coppell has already said that if Little's injuries persist he will have to look at bringing in another winger.
If that happens we might not need any more 12 page topics about Seol-maybe it will be 15 page topics about the new Igoe or Scott Murray.

Fair comments........

[Hoop Blah]

Dear oh dear - reading this thread in its entirety has left me shaking my head.

Its good to see that the Boos Brothers - Royalee, Royal rother, Top Flight and to a slightly lesser extent Hoop Blah are back in force after our outstanding draw against the champions.

Just a few points for you cheeky chappies to chew over.

It is possible for a player to play badly and be trying.

etc etc

Just chill lads.

I'm perfectly chilled and I don't think I've ever said Seol doesn't try.

Personally I've watched Seol over the last 12 months and my comments are largely based on the evidence from those games, not just Sundays good team performance. I don't think its so much a case of Seol being lazy and not trying as more a case of him not being good enough.

I've said a team needs a blend of player types, eg a Hunt type player AND a Little or Seol type player. I'm not against Seol in the way that some are, but I do doubt he's of a consistently good enough standard to play week in week out for a successful RFC.

For me it's not about effort, it's about his effectiveness.

[Rawlie19]

I am not entrenched in either camp regarding Seol but has he done enough to warrant a first team place ?
I can remember 3(?)goals and a few crosses whereas with Little I can remember 0 goals but hundreds of crosses.

You don't remember THAT goal? The mazy run, beating hundreds of defenders, and then chipping the goalkeeper from inside the centre circle?

[Only one Trevor Morley]

So the fact that Seol walks around and mopes about the pitch like he can't be ars*d isn't enough evidence to suggest that he is not trying hard enough.

I can only say what I see.

Its very obvious he doesn't give 100% commitment.

This isnt catchphrase, its a football match.

its very obvious to you that he doesnt give 100% commitment.

A clever response to me who'd have been to say that i might have a point. Instead you backed up every point I made.

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Dear oh dear - reading this thread in its entirety has left me shaking my head.

Its good to see that the Boos Brothers - Royalee, Royal rother, Top Flight and to a slightly lesser extent Hoop Blah are back in force after our outstanding draw against the champions.

Just a few points for you cheeky chappies to chew over.

It is possible for a player to play badly and be trying.

etc etc

Just chill lads.

I'm perfectly chilled and I don't think I've ever said Seol doesn't try.

Personally I've watched Seol over the last 12 months and my comments are largely based on the evidence from those games, not just Sundays good team performance. I don't think its so much a case of Seol being lazy and not trying as more a case of him not being good enough.

I've said a team needs a blend of player types, eg a Hunt type player AND a Little or Seol type player. I'm not against Seol in the way that some are, but I do doubt he's of a consistently good enough standard to play week in week out for a successful RFC.

For me it's not about effort, it's about his effectiveness.

then we're to a certain extent in agreement (I think Seol could be consistently good enough) and I apologise for including you with the boos brothers

[Top Flight]

Ok Trev........

[Stranded]

I am not entrenched in either camp regarding Seol but has he done enough to warrant a first team place ?
I can remember 3(?)goals and a few crosses whereas with Little I can remember 0 goals but hundreds of crosses.

You don't remember THAT goal? The mazy run, beating hundreds of defenders, and then chipping the goalkeeper from inside the centre circle?

Don't recall that being in the Premier League though.

Think the two players return's last year was 4 goals, 4 assists for Seol and 0 goals, 6 assists for Little.

[Don Finch]

Seol is an infuriating player to watch, I'm not so much doubting his effort but more the way he plays the game. He saw a fair amount of the ball on Sunday but failed to either run to the ball to collect it or to actually run with the ball at some level of pace - this cuts down the angles he can actually pass the ball to by the time he's closed down. He has the innate ability to slow our counter attacks down so much that the oppo defence has time to get back and cope with any threats easily. It's like his brain is too slow to keep up with the speed of the ball and react, or he has a genuine lack of acceleration (he reminds me a lot of me actually ).

Sunday was a good reminder of why away games are preferable, instead of booing we actually clapped Seol as he warmed down, I'm definitely willing to give him another few games of this season to see what he can do.

He knows his place isn't guaranteed and he's craving first team action, so why would he not put any effort in? I think he is, it just doesn't look like it to some of us.

[Top Flight]

Well I will never boo Seol........

When I'm at the Madejski I will only cheer him and encourage and clap him.

But privately I am thinking, what a lazy git. Try harder!

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Seol is an infuriating player to watch, I'm not so much doubting his effort but more the way he plays the game. He saw a fair amount of the ball on Sunday but failed to either run to the ball to collect it or to actually run with the ball at some level of pace - this cuts down the angles he can actually pass the ball to by the time he's closed down. He has the innate ability to slow our counter attacks down so much that the oppo defence has time to get back and cope with any threats easily. It's like his brain is too slow to keep up with the speed of the ball and react, or he has a genuine lack of acceleration (he reminds me a lot of me actually ).

Sunday was a good reminder of why away games are preferable, instead of booing we actually clapped Seol as he warmed down, I'm definitely willing to give him another few games of this season to see what he can do.

He knows his place isn't guaranteed and he's craving first team action, so why would he not put any effort in? I think he is, it just doesn't look like it to some of us.

Spot on.

[Rawlie19]

I am not entrenched in either camp regarding Seol but has he done enough to warrant a first team place ?
I can remember 3(?)goals and a few crosses whereas with Little I can remember 0 goals but hundreds of crosses.

You don't remember THAT goal? The mazy run, beating hundreds of defenders, and then chipping the goalkeeper from inside the centre circle?

Don't recall that being in the Premier League though.

Think the two players return's last year was 4 goals, 4 assists for Seol and 0 goals, 6 assists for Little.

Premiership wasn't specified in that post, but I take your point. And as for those stats, that's a better return by Seal. Give 1 point to each player for a goal being scored as a direct result from their play and it's 8-6 to Seal. Boooo though.

[Hoop Blah]

Premiership wasn't specified in that post, but I take your point. And as for those stats, that's a better return by Seal. Give 1 point to each player for a goal being scored as a direct result from their play and it's 8-6 to Seal. Boooo though.

That really doesn't take into account the far superior quality of Little's play though, or the amount of time and space he creates for others with his ability on the ball or the number of chances they both create that don't get converted.

[Rawlie19]

Premiership wasn't specified in that post, but I take your point. And as for those stats, that's a better return by Seal. Give 1 point to each player for a goal being scored as a direct result from their play and it's 8-6 to Seal. Boooo though.

That really doesn't take into account the far superior quality of Little's play though, or the amount of time and space he creates for others with his ability on the ball or the number of chances they both create that don't get converted.

No, and given the choice I would pick Little every time. But he's not fit, and I'm not sure Oyster is any better over the 90 than Seal.

[brendywendy]

I am not entrenched in either camp regarding Seol but has he done enough to warrant a first team place ?
I can remember 3(?)goals and a few crosses whereas with Little I can remember 0 goals but hundreds of crosses.

You don't remember THAT goal? The mazy run, beating hundreds of defenders, and then chipping the goalkeeper from inside the centre circle?

Don't recall that being in the Premier League though.

Think the two players return's last year was 4 goals, 4 assists for Seol and 0 goals, 6 assists for Little.

!!!thats 8 goals Vs 6 goals!!!!

seol is better than blakey

blakey out

[Royal Rother]

Dear oh dear - reading this thread in its entirety has left me shaking my head.

Royal Rother feely admits to forming opinions quickly which reflect his views at any given moment. Thats fine, we all know the person who likes the sound of his own voice and steadfastly sets out views before the facts emerge - it makes for interesting (if ill informed) debate. However if you're going to make opinions on the hoof then you have to accept that more often than not those opinions will be incorrect because they have been made quickly in the absence of fact.

Yeah, I can imagine you thought that sounded really good when you typed it out.

All the fantasy of your own mind of course - my views of Seol have been formed over the last 12 months and frequently aired in relatively mild tones - I don't believe I have ever directly questioned whether he puts 100% in, just raised constructive criticisms of his performances.

His performance on Sunday pissed me off because yet again everything slowed down when he got the ball, he has bags of skill yet never once looked confident enough to get past the first defender and his passing and tackling was pretty abject as well. I can't stand it when a player, week in week out, appears too scared to use his God-given talents - it really hacks me off.

I wait for him to prove I have reached despondency over his performances over the last 6-8 months a tad too quickly but as with most other assessments of players' contributions, I suspect he is not going to prove me wrong, because I am rarely given cause to change my mind.

My feeling about Coppell is about the only time I can recall I got it completely wrong and I am sufficiently ego-free to regularly refer to it myself. You'll probably have to make something up again to come up with another example.

[brendywendy]

Dear oh dear - reading this thread in its entirety has left me shaking my head.

Royal Rother feely admits to forming opinions quickly which reflect his views at any given moment. Thats fine, we all know the person who likes the sound of his own voice and steadfastly sets out views before the facts emerge - it makes for interesting (if ill informed) debate. However if you're going to make opinions on the hoof then you have to accept that more often than not those opinions will be incorrect because they have been made quickly in the absence of fact.

Yeah, I can imagine you thought that sounded really good when you typed it out.

All the fantasy of your own mind of course - my views of Seol have been formed over the last 12 months and frequently aired in relatively mild tones - I don't believe I have ever directly questioned whether he puts 100% in, just raised constructive criticisms of his performances.

His performance on Sunday pissed me off because yet again everything slowed down when he got the ball, he has bags of skill yet never once looked confident enough to get past the first defender and his passing and tackling was pretty abject as well. I can't stand it when a player, week in week out, appears too scared to use his God-given talents - it really hacks me off.

I wait for him to prove I have reached despondency over his performances over the last 6-8 months a tad too quickly but as with most other assessments of players' contributions, I suspect he is not going to prove me wrong, because I am rarely given cause to change my mind.

My feeling about Coppell is about the only time I can recall I got it completely wrong and I am sufficiently ego-free to regularly refer to it myself. You'll probably have to make something up again to come up with another example.

to be fair at most points when he got the ball there would have been only one forward to cross it to, marked by 4 united defenders
i would have thought that checking back and looking for a better pass was exactly the right thing to do

[zac naloen]

to be fair at most points when he got the ball there would have been only one forward to cross it to, marked by 4 united defenders
i would have thought that checking back and looking for a better pass was exactly the right thing to do

It just seems that too many people are comparing him to Little who despite his lack of pace isn't afraid to bomb it down the wing and take on players. Seol would rather look for the early pass first and then bomb it down the wing (by which time someone has closed him down).

[brendywendy]

to be fair at most points when he got the ball there would have been only one forward to cross it to, marked by 4 united defenders
i would have thought that checking back and looking for a better pass was exactly the right thing to do

It just seems that too many people are comparing him to Little who despite his lack of pace isn't afraid to bomb it down the wing and take on players. Seol would rather look for the early pass first and then bomb it down the wing (by which time someone has closed him down).

but if little had played he could have taken it past the player

and still be confronted by doyle surrounded by 4 defenders

[zac naloen]

to be fair at most points when he got the ball there would have been only one forward to cross it to, marked by 4 united defenders
i would have thought that checking back and looking for a better pass was exactly the right thing to do

It just seems that too many people are comparing him to Little who despite his lack of pace isn't afraid to bomb it down the wing and take on players. Seol would rather look for the early pass first and then bomb it down the wing (by which time someone has closed him down).

but if little had played he could have taken it past the player

and still be confronted by doyle surrounded by 4 defenders

and, so, therefore?

Seol if he'd taken it past the player also has the quality to put the ball in the back of the net himself from 25 yards just using Doyle as a decoy to keep some defenders off himself.

I was defending your point anyway, Seol isn't Little and would rather look for an early pass before bombing it down the wing (and recieve the ball back for the cross in) rather than run with the ball at his feet. He obviously feels this isn't a strength of his.

[brendywendy]

to be fair at most points when he got the ball there would have been only one forward to cross it to, marked by 4 united defenders
i would have thought that checking back and looking for a better pass was exactly the right thing to do

It just seems that too many people are comparing him to Little who despite his lack of pace isn't afraid to bomb it down the wing and take on players. Seol would rather look for the early pass first and then bomb it down the wing (by which time someone has closed him down).

but if little had played he could have taken it past the player

and still be confronted by doyle surrounded by 4 defenders

and, so, therefore?

Seol if he'd taken it past the player also has the quality to put the ball in the back of the net himself from 25 yards just using Doyle as a decoy to keep some defenders off himself.

I was defending your point anyway, Seol isn't Little and would rather look for an early pass before bombing it down the wing (and recieve the ball back for the cross in) rather than run with the ball at his feet. He obviously feels this isn't a strength of his.

actually looking at his early form, running with the ball at his feet was a strength at the start
then he lost it a couple of times whilst doing it
and reverted to pass and move
maybe the booing beat it out of him

and i just meant it wouldnt have mattered if little was playing, he would have spent all his time chasing, and if hre did get past his marker momentarily doyle would still be unhittable with a pass, and he also would be unlikely to stroll half the length of the pitch unnoposed.
so the only sensible option open to whoever our right winger was on sunday would be to check back and pass and move