The Over-reaction Thread

[Daniella]

Couldn't agree more with with the above two posters. Cmonurz' recent posts have been refreshing, and floyde is always good value for witty knowledgeable input.
Why is it when someone suggests the club take a slightly different approach they are "idiots" and " moaners"? What a pathetic jury you all are.

No one is suggesting we destroy everthing the club is about; hard work, passion, commitment and energy. In this day and age we are a special club and we are one of the few who still have respect for the game and where its come from. Some refer to us as plastic and not being traditional, but we are quite the opposite, we are the sole club who have remembered how the english game became so great on those attributes and we have stuck by them. There is only so far that can go though, we are in an injury crisis and we're very weak in some positions, we need to bring in quality to support those areas. You can't run the excuse of " it'll upset the team spirit" anymore, sidwell left and others are considering their future options by not signing deals, is that not upsetting the team spirit? All we need is one or two additions and we'll be fine. No one is asking for a 80 million spree on over-hyped rot, what about players on loan?

We've done amazing to be where we are, but I can't help feel if we just push the boat out a little, we could establish ourselves more. We are financially able to do so, thats the bottom line.

[cmonurz]

Well whatever the situation is, paying one player or ten players £25k per week (which would only happen in the long-run, and would not upset team morale as a player paid £25k per week would be of obvious talent) is something that the likes of Wigan and Fulham do, and something we will need to if we want to stick around here very long.

[Smoking Kills Dancing Doe]

We could spend £40m and still be nowhere doing a Leeds.

Both Hammond and Coppell have said we need to break our wage structure to move forward and players are gonna have to except there will always be a group of 3 or 4 players on more than everyone else. Which must be how it is now, but just with lower figures.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

the Times had salary bills for the Premiership teams last season. We were 20th out of 20, at £10m for the year (albeit estimated). Wigan were 19th, paying £20m in salaries.

Flamin' 'eck. Half of the next lowest payers

[Royal Rother]

the Times had salary bills for the Premiership teams last season. We were 20th out of 20, at £10m for the year (albeit estimated). Wigan were 19th, paying £20m in salaries.

Flamin' 'eck. Half of the next lowest payers

Sorry but I simply do not believe that stat.

[cmonurz]

the Times had salary bills for the Premiership teams last season. We were 20th out of 20, at £10m for the year (albeit estimated). Wigan were 19th, paying £20m in salaries.

Flamin' 'eck. Half of the next lowest payers

Sorry but I simply do not believe that stat.

Well as I said, the Times had 'estimated' our salaries as they had some other teams (perhaps using Sidwell's as a base as his was in the public domain around his contract talks).

I haven't made it up.

[Royal Rother]

Couldn't agree more with with the above two posters. Cmonurz' recent posts have been refreshing, and floyde is always good value for witty knowledgeable input.
Why is it when someone suggests the club take a slightly different approach they are "idiots" and " moaners"? What a pathetic jury you all are.

No one is suggesting we destroy everthing the club is about; hard work, passion, commitment and energy. In this day and age we are a special club and we are one of the few who still have respect for the game and where its come from. Some refer to us as plastic and not being traditional, but we are quite the opposite, we are the sole club who have remembered how the english game became so great on those attributes and we have stuck by them. There is only so far that can go though, we are in an injury crisis and we're very weak in some positions, we need to bring in quality to support those areas. You can't run the excuse of " it'll upset the team spirit" anymore, sidwell left and others are considering their future options by not signing deals, is that not upsetting the team spirit? All we need is one or two additions and we'll be fine. No one is asking for a 80 million spree on over-hyped rot, what about players on loan?

We've done amazing to be where we are, but I can't help feel if we just push the boat out a little, we could establish ourselves more. We are financially able to do so, thats the bottom line.

Did you read the articles papereyes posted on the Bundesliga thread about Freiburg? It might give you a little more confidence that we should carry on with what we've got.

I think I titled this thread perfectly - we have an excellent start to this season and it is only injuries, suspensions and international call ups the combined effects of which accumulated to a below-par performance against a team fighting for their lives who had 2 players who, on form, will trouble any defence in the league.

I think the negatives are, so far, considerably outweighed by the positives that indicate we are carrying exactly from where we left off last season.

I also believe that we now have more players capable of having an impact on the Premiership than we started last season with.

The definite positives
Golbourne made a pretty accomplished debut.
De L Cruz has surpassed all expectations.
Duberry has shown he can still be a defensive rock in the Premiership.
Bikey keeps getting better and better.
Sonko will be available soon.
Fae looked okay on his debut. Big adjustment to make but most indications are that he played okay in an unaccustomed position.
Cisse looked okay to me against £200m of talent and can only improve.
Lita won't spend half the season posturing and falling over like he did last season and will concentrate on scoring which I'm sure he will do plenty more times than last season.
Doyle will score plenty when he gets the service.
Kitson can't contribute less than he did last season.
Long is improving all the time.
Hunt's improvement shows no sign of stopping yet.

The possible negatives
Sidwell gone.
Murty injury prone.
Shorey might leave I suppose.
Little's future must be in doubt.
Seol's (shall we say) inconsistency.
Harper and Gunnarsson (the midfield pair in possession) not able to creative enough opportunities yet.

I truly believe that we are going about things in the right way and that we are in a better position than we were last season.

One 3-0 defeat has obviously confirmed some people's doubts and brought renewed clamour for more and supposedly better players, but I do think that is a massive overreaction.

[Royal Rother]

the Times had salary bills for the Premiership teams last season. We were 20th out of 20, at £10m for the year (albeit estimated). Wigan were 19th, paying £20m in salaries.

Flamin' 'eck. Half of the next lowest payers

Sorry but I simply do not believe that stat.

Well as I said, the Times had 'estimated' our salaries as they had some other teams (perhaps using Sidwell's as a base as his was in the public domain around his contract talks).

I haven't made it up.

No I'm sure you haven't but can anyone really believe that Watford paid more than twice the wages we did? Something's not right there.

[cmonurz]

Sorry, I made a mistake in my post which made it unclear - the table was of current Premiership clubs, excluding the promoted clubs. So we were 17th of 17, and Wigan 16th.

[Royal Rother]

That's better!

[Victor Meldrew]

Have just trawled through 7 pages here and despite the comments of so many there are very,very few dissenters-the others seem to be waiting for them but they haven't turned up.
Watched the hour long highlights on Sky last night but it is so difficult to get a feel for how people played if you weren't there.

My grouse concerns Steve Coppell's comments in today's papers about players being used in meaningless friendlies and then having to play again on Saturday.
I'm sorry Steve this is what the Premiership is all about.
RFC takes the big money paid by Sky and by us fans and friendlies are the build-up to International tournaments.
If national sides do well then football itself stays popular and the fans continue to pay through the turnstiles thus helping individual clubs financially,that is the merry-go-round.
With that big money you buy a bigger squad to cover the International call-ups and injuries.

Yesterday showed that we may not have great back-up at times like this but as the season progresses there will be Carling Cup,FA Cup,European Championship,Friendlies and the African Nations Cup,all of which will put a strain on our playing resources.
We may not be in the position of a top 4 club who do have larger and better squads but then they may have greater call on their players because as well as the above competitions there is also the Champions League which can require up to (?)15 more games in a season.

I don't expect us to have players like Cudicini,Shevchenko,Voronin,Hyppia,Crouch,Silvestre etc ready to step up when needed but to achieve what we did last year or to get close (presumably that is our ambition?) I do think we need better than Halls,Frederici and Oster to come in and keep our side at the level that we can achieve as shown last season.
To do that we need to spend a bit and (thanks to Sky,us fans and the high profile currently of all things football which result in more spending still on replica kit and so on)not like the dark old days of 4th division football we do now have the money.
I live in hope that at least a couple more players will join us this week.

BTW one good by-product of Steve's rant at the FA over their greed in arranging Mickey-Mouse friendlies just to raise even more money is that he has probably talked his way out of consideration for the England job.

[Behindu]

Always worth sense checking figures.

If we had a squad of 25

Average weekly salary £10k

We'd be paying £13 million in wages

So how right are those figures ?

And does that wage figure just consider basic wages or is it basic plus bonuses ? If it's just basic then is our wage structure low on basic but good on bonuses ?

I have no idea, but gut feel is £10 million is maybe a little low but not by much. It can;t be very surprising, as a newly promoted club we were in the worst financial psotion of any team and if we hadn;t been the lowest payers I would have been surprised.

Almsot every player has signed a new deal now so I would imagine our spending is much higher. No idea by how much.

[cmonurz]

I thought our players were all given adjusted deals to reflect Premiership football when we were promoted?

[Behindu]

I thought our players were all given adjusted deals to reflect Premiership football when we were promoted?

Sidwell wasn't was he ?

I'd imagine you are right, some agents let their players down badly if there wasn;t a wage increase included in all contracts in the event of promotion ! All the new deals recently would just have boosted that further. IIRC we were only mid table in terms of our wgae bill in the Championship though...

[working class hero]

Now we are a Prem Club I think we should pay more. Possibly we could almost double the Championship prices and that - along with almost £50,000,000 in Sky cash - should let us compete.....

Oh!

[Hampshire Royal]

As a pillock who said we didn't want to go down the Leeds route, they spent what they thought would be enough to seriously challenge for Champions League. Even though they got there and did well, even they found they couldn't do it. As for clubs of our size like Derby, Bradford and Barnsley they spent their way to near disaster doing exactly what is being suggested by some 'pillocks' on here. Only their opinion, I know, and I wouldn't call anyone a pillock for expressing their honestly held opinion).

Everyone is suggesting that the Bolton result is typical of the way our season will go if we don't invest. Nobody mentions the Utd and Everton results or the scare we gave Chelsea by outplaying them for significant periods of the game.

People are also saying that every other club has spent loads of money this year, so why shouldn't we? Are they sure that the big-spending clubs won't be in trouble in the next year or so?

[Ian Royal]

the Times had salary bills for the Premiership teams last season. We were 20th out of 20, at £10m for the year (albeit estimated). Wigan were 19th, paying £20m in salaries.

Flamin' 'eck. Half of the next lowest payers

Sorry but I simply do not believe that stat.

Well as I said, the Times had 'estimated' our salaries as they had some other teams (perhaps using Sidwell's as a base as his was in the public domain around his contract talks).

I haven't made it up.

And Sidwell was one of the lowest earning first teamers at the club last year because most of the rest who were low signed new deals.

[Ian Royal]

Always worth sense checking figures.

If we had a squad of 25

Average weekly salary £10k

We'd be paying £13 million in wages

So how right are those figures ?

And does that wage figure just consider basic wages or is it basic plus bonuses ? If it's just basic then is our wage structure low on basic but good on bonuses ?

I have no idea, but gut feel is £10 million is maybe a little low but not by much. It can;t be very surprising, as a newly promoted club we were in the worst financial psotion of any team and if we hadn;t been the lowest payers I would have been surprised.

Almsot every player has signed a new deal now so I would imagine our spending is much higher. No idea by how much.

I'd be surprised if the average weekly is as low as £10k, we must have a fair few siginficantly above that. I'd have thought: Lita, Shorey, Doyle, Harper, Convey, Seol, Fae, Cisse, Sonko, Ivar and possibly Duberry, Bikey, Hahnemann and Murty would all be more than that by at least a couple of grand if not 5-10.

[strap]

From my brief knowledge of the Bolton game, it was simply down to the fact we were knackered, had players injured/suspended, and were forced to play a team who are pretty much strangers in that they haven't played together seriously before.

Had our results been

Manure L0-3
Chelsea L1-2
Everton W1-0
Bolton D1-1

we'd all be saying what a solid start we'd made!

We have practically 2 players of at least adequate quality for each position, plus a shed load of Sky money "in the bank" as it were.

It's not quite yet armageddon. (Might be if the Sham put 6 past us on Saturday though! )

[Behindu]

I'd be surprised if the average weekly is as low as £10k, we must have a fair few siginficantly above that. I'd have thought: Lita, Shorey, Doyle, Harper, Convey, Seol, Fae, Cisse, Sonko, Ivar and possibly Duberry, Bikey, Hahnemann and Murty would all be more than that by at least a couple of grand if not 5-10.

But the figures relate to last season so Fae and Cisse hadn;t been signed and several of the new deals wouldn;t have been in place...
Current wages will certainly be higher than last season but to be honest I have no idea what a realistic figure is. I can see that we pay less than any of the longer serving clubs - makes sense really !