Who will win the Premiership 2007/8?

[papereyes]

Oh yes, Tevez will do well, but I think Wenger decided against him because he found a similar player for less than half the price in da Silva.

I thought da Silva was pretty poor yesterday. Shame, as that's the first game when I've seen him be lower than pretty good.

[Royal Rother]

I saw about 2/3rds of the game once it became apparent our game definitely wasn't being shown online, and although not much came off for da Silva I thought he was linking up well and showed a lot of promise.

It can't be easy coming into the Arsenal team and their brand of football and fit right in. I think he's done well.

[Katie Marsden]

Birmingham v Man Utd
Wigan v Liverpool
West Ham v Arsenal
Chelsea v Fulham

Man Utd v Wigan
Arsenal v Sunderland
Liverpool v Tottenham
Bolton v Chelsea

Arsenal v Bolton
Aston Villa v Man Utd
Everton v Liverpool
Middlesbrough v Chelsea

Man Utd v Middlesbrough
Chelsea v Man City
Liverpool v Arsenal

Some decent games coming up for the 'big four' and after 10-11 games the table will be more realistic.

[AthleticoSpizz]

TOTTENHAM in the relegation zone one month into the new season


Reading two points above them


Dozens of managers on HNA, all better than Steve Coppell


Where is Seol when we need a whipping boy?


Liverpool

[Royal Rother]

If strength in depth is one of the pre-requisites to success in the PL these days, would anyone dispute the fact that after Arsenal's Reserves slaughtered Newcastle, and Man Utd's Reserves were humiliated by Coventry this week, that things are looking better and better for the Gunners?

[Scylla]

If strength in depth is one of the pre-requisites to success in the PL these days, would anyone dispute the fact that after Arsenal's Reserves slaughtered Newcastle, and Man Utd's Reserves were humiliated by Coventry this week, that things are looking better and better for the Gunners?

If my grannie had a dick...

[Royal Rother]

...then she'd have had strength in depth?

[Garry Mann]

If strength in depth is one of the pre-requisites to success in the PL these days, would anyone dispute the fact that after Arsenal's Reserves slaughtered Newcastle, and Man Utd's Reserves were humiliated by Coventry this week, that things are looking better and better for the Gunners?

I would dispute that, for a number of reasons which I can't be fully arsed to go into.

The Arsenal defence was their first choice
The Arsenal lads have had plenty of reserve football this season
Newcastle 'rested' a number of first teamers, they didn't care about the game
It was Cov's cup final
That United 11 have hardly played any football this season, for some reason they are deemed too good for reserve team action (a fook up in my eyes that the likes of Evans and Pique have not seen any football before the cup game)

Arsenal have sone good young players, but so do United.

One thing I will say though is that Dong is quite possibly the worst ever player to play for United.

Evans, Pique, Nani and Anderson will all succeed at the top level. The rest won't.

Not seen enough of Arsenal's lot to see who will succeed out of them.

[sheshnu]

Evans, Pique, Nani and Anderson will all succeed at the top level. The rest won't.

I should hope so! How much did they cost? So it's Evans and Pique from Man U's youth team this generation then...

[papereyes]

£ 30 million of talent in predicted to do well shocker.

Arsenal's youth team have been slowly but surely filtering through their ranks for a few years now. And, if not, moved on for reasonable money (Stokes, as an example).

United's have been responsible for games against Exeter, Southend, Coventry and some midlands team that Nigel Clough managed.

Even if this is only a rather biased selection of games, I'd be moderately worried if that was my team and the results were missing the expectations by so much.

[Royal Rother]

I would dispute that, for a number of reasons which I can't be fully arsed to go into.

Indeed; your reply looked pretty half-arsed to me.

[Katie Marsden]

The trouble with Arsenal is they have about 25 players of the same standard, that standard isn't good enough to win the league. It's more than good enough for them beat most sides in the Carling Cup playing a host of kids and reserves. A club like Arsenal should have bigger ambitions than than simply winning the odd cup.

Only Fabregas would get into United's first eleven. Arsenal can have as many promising kids as they like, the only thing that really matters is the first team squad.

It was only 3 years ago Schards claimed Arsenal would dominate the league for the next decade because their young players were different class. One FA Cup in three seasons says it all.

Come May when United celebrate another title I'm sure they'll be gutted they don't have a dozen African kids who can do the business in the Carling Cup.

Papereyes, United's kids have moved on for decent money aswell. In the last year they've made over £12 by selling just 3 of them.

Jones - Derby
Rossi - Villarreal
Richardson - Sunderland

[SpaceCruiser]

In the last year they've made over £12 by selling just 3 of them.

Only £12? The buyers must have been laughing at how cheap their purchases were.

[papereyes]

Jones - Derby
Rossi - Villarreal
Richardson - Sunderland

Fine, fair enough.

I personally wouldn't have included Richardson in the same bracket as the other two wrt the Arsenal players I was referring to (ie a touch less experience, relatively few games for the first team). He's in a slightly different, shop-soiled category.

Maybe that's just me.

[Platypuss]

In the last year they've made over £12 by selling just 3 of them.

Only £12? The buyers must have been laughing at how cheap their purchases were.

Richardson would still be overpriced.

[Scylla]

The trouble with Arsenal is they have about 25 players of the same standard, that standard isn't good enough to win the league. It's more than good enough for them beat most sides in the Carling Cup playing a host of kids and reserves. A club like Arsenal should have bigger ambitions than than simply winning the odd cup.

Only Fabregas would get into United's first eleven. Arsenal can have as many promising kids as they like, the only thing that really matters is the first team squad.

It was only 3 years ago Schards claimed Arsenal would dominate the league for the next decade because their young players were different class. One FA Cup in three seasons says it all.

Come May when United celebrate another title I'm sure they'll be gutted they don't have a dozen African kids who can do the business in the Carling Cup.

Papereyes, United's kids have moved on for decent money aswell. In the last year they've made over £12 by selling just 3 of them.

Jones - Derby
Rossi - Villarreal
Richardson - Sunderland

A club like Utd should have an academy with bigger ambitions than producing journeyman pros to be flogged off for a few mill each

[Katie Marsden]

It should do, but the trouble is youngster that are good enough to break into a side and replace or play alongside the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs etc don't grow on trees.

All top sides have to look further afield. Most of Arsenal's kids were hand picked from other clubs when they were 16-17.

Reading have shown that investing a lot of money in the youth set up doesn't automatically get results. When was the last time a genuine home grown player broke through? Henderson about 5 years ago and he was deemed surplus to requirements.

[Royal Rother]

Only Fabregas would get into United's first eleven. Arsenal can have as many promising kids as they like, the only thing that really matters is the first team squad.

That's an interesting point, and I am not suggesting you are wrong. But if Arsenal's 1st team, Fabregas apart, would only make it into Man Utd's 2nd team effectively, is that because of names, reputations, cost, or actual ability as footballers?

The point I originally made was about the contrasting strength in depth in evidence this week. You say it's all about 1st team squad - doesn't that (S-I-D) count for anything in your mind? Did we not see that Man Utd don't have it in the way that Arsenal do and do you really think that might not have a bearing on the PL?

Don't get me wrong, MU are still favourites because of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Vidich, Hargreaves, Carrick and Ferdinand, but I think Arsenal have a great chance to pip them this year because their strikers are actually shooting and the lack of Henry has not stopped them playing tremendous football.

More goals and more consistency through greater maturity allied to the same quality we saw for large parts of last season means they are in with a great chance in my mind. (Hopefully in the real world as well...)

[papereyes]

It should do, but the trouble is youngster that are good enough to break into a side and replace or play alongside the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs etc don't grow on trees.

All top sides have to look further afield. Most of Arsenal's kids were hand picked from other clubs when they were 16-17.

Reading have shown that investing a lot of money in the youth set up doesn't automatically get results. When was the last time a genuine home grown player broke through? Henderson about 5 years ago and he was deemed surplus to requirements.

Two points.

1) I don't really see a major problem with this. The toughest part is from 16-20 when you take a talent and turn him into a pro. Arsenal have done well out of it. Good for them. United appear to be doing a similar approach with some of their players.

2) Indeed. But as I'm sure DG and Behindu will also point out, 5 years ago we were a moderately successful 3rd tier club. The players we could attract were not as good as those we can attract now. Now we can compete in the youth team with bigger and better clubs.

And its starting to pay off. Players are getting there. Slowly and surely. The good players that we need to supplement whatever players that we can buy. The jump in standard in a short-time is a limiting factor in the equation.

And, remember that I see 1) as inherent. Young players bought in at 17, 18, often passed over at a younger age, although not youth products do to some extent fall into that category. Villa, for example, play this market very well in deed.

It needs continuity. Henderson and Tyson moved on shortly after the arrival of Coppell. Whether they were good enough or not is then framed in a question of different styles of management.

[Katie Marsden]

Only Fabregas would get into United's first eleven. Arsenal can have as many promising kids as they like, the only thing that really matters is the first team squad.

That's an interesting point, and I am not suggesting you are wrong. But if Arsenal's 1st team, Fabregas apart, would only make it into Man Utd's 2nd team effectively, is that because of names, reputations, cost, or actual ability as footballers?

The point I originally made was about the contrasting strength in depth in evidence this week. You say it's all about 1st team squad - doesn't that (S-I-D) count for anything in your mind? Did we not see that Man Utd don't have it in the way that Arsenal do and do you really think that might not have a bearing on the PL?

Don't get me wrong, MU are still favourites because of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Vidich, Hargreaves, Carrick and Ferdinand, but I think Arsenal have a great chance to pip them this year because their strikers are actually shooting and the lack of Henry has not stopped them playing tremendous football.

More goals and more consistency through greater maturity allied to the same quality we saw for large parts of last season means they are in with a great chance in my mind. (Hopefully in the real world as well...)

Don't get me wrong I'm not taking digs at Arsenal, I think Wenger is one of the best managers of the last 20 years and he plays football the way it should be played. You can't fault the way he's bided his time and has given the young players time to mature but that sort of time wouldn't be allowed at United or Chelsea. Arsenal have finished 4th two years in a row and won nothing, Ferguson would be out if he performed like that. Wenger does a great job but he doesn't have to operate under the intense pressure others do. That gives him a big advantage IMO.

I think the United first team is as strong as it's been since they won the treble. They have a rock solid defence, plenty of options in midfield and upfront and they also have vital experience throughout the side. I don't think over 38 games anyone will be able to stop them.

Regarding S-I-D I think United have that. Maybe not in the sheer numbers of Arsenal but definitely in terms of quality. Not many sides have the quality of Saha, Carrick, Nani, Anderson and Brown as back up players.

I think Arsenal will do much better than people expect, as I said pre-season when I tipped them to finish above Liverpool. Fabregas will win player of the year, but I just don't think they're ready as a team yet.