Sepp Blatter

[Silver Fox]

Blatter surprisingly spot on for once. A country that considers itself in any way relevant in world footballing terms shouldn't hire a foreign manager, EngLOLand are going nowhere fast

[Daniella]

Sorry guys, disagree with all of the above.
The premier league is the best in the world. Look at the amount of English teams making the last 8 of the champions league each year. Look at the size of crowds compared to anyone else. Look at the merchandising sales compares to anyone else. Look at the media coverage compared to everyone else. In Italy, juventus get 20,000 a week, massive club can't even beat readings average gate.

To say I loose any credibility in saying that is ignorant. Your opinion is that it is not the best, all of the above please explain why and i'll debate you on it...

[Dirk Gently]

I know this is one of Daniella's normal fishing attempts, but I'll take the bait anyway....

The premier league is the best in the world.

All depends on how you define "best" - It might be the best if you're trying to make money from the game or sell TV contracts, but it's certainly not the best if you're a match-going supporter, and it's certainly not the most competitive. It's getting less and less competitive in year by year, and that can't be sustainable in the long-term.

[Daniella]

I know this is one of Daniella's normal fishing attempts, but I'll take the bait anyway....

My reputation is starting to get in the way of a debate now, people dismissing clear argument as "fishing". How on earth is this fishing? There is nothing controversial about it.

The facts speak for themselves. The premier league is the most watched league in the world, simple as. Why is it the most watched league? As everyone believes the all-round standards, atmosphere and competition to be the best. You can't argue with TV viewing figures im afraid.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

My reputation is starting to get in the way of a debate now, people dismissing clear argument as "fishing". How on earth is this fishing? There is nothing controversial about it.

It's similar to the boy who cried wolf, Daniella. A lot of your comments are fishing trips (cf the comments on the Aus v Ind cricket thread and the Iran / US warship thread) so people will (rightly or wrongly) be sceptical of posts from you.

Perhaps if you cut down on the fishing then people might start to take your "real" discussion points as they are meant. Just a thought.

For what it's worth, I can see your point about how PL teams consistenly make the last 8 of the CL but it's normally the same 4 teams. If you look at the UEFA cup, the Spanish teams regularly do well which shows the strength in depth of that league. I guess it all comes down to the criteria being used to define the "best"...

[Daniella]

My reputation is starting to get in the way of a debate now, people dismissing clear argument as "fishing". How on earth is this fishing? There is nothing controversial about it.

It's similar to the boy who cried wolf, Daniella. A lot of your comments are fishing trips (cf the comments on the Aus v Ind cricket thread and the Iran / US warship thread) so people will (rightly or wrongly) be sceptical of posts from you.

Im not moaning about it, I just thought people would be smart enough to separate a silly comment, to one with logic and popular belief behind it.

They don't get crowds in spain and no away fans travel, thats poor enough in itself. They are technically very good and probably play better attacking football than your average prem team, but they keep falling short against england's top four. Id like to see Aston villa give someone like Bilbao or getafe a game to see how the middle order would compare.

[TBM]

I've always said the Premier League is the best in the world but i've just put it down to being biased. I cant watch Italian football without getting frustrated and bored, Spanish Football seems too easy and mickey mouse and the rest, due to lack of coverage dont really compare - im sure if i wasn't English i wouldn't be saying its the best, its just cos its what i've had driven into me by the media in this country.

[papereyes]

I know this is one of Daniella's normal fishing attempts, but I'll take the bait anyway....

The premier league is the best in the world.

All depends on how you define "best" - It might be the best if you're trying to make money from the game or sell TV contracts, but it's certainly not the best if you're a match-going supporter, and it's certainly not the most competitive. It's getting less and less competitive in year by year, and that can't be sustainable in the long-term.

Its the richest. The best teams can afford the best players and they do well in Europe. The next tier of teams, in the UEFA cup, are often beaten by similar ranked sides from Spain, Italy, Portugal, Holland. This suggests that the league consists of a handful of genuinely powerful sides but from them down, its a mediocrity.

As DG says, its not the most competitive. I can dig out some research about the competitive balance and not only is it quite uncompetitive, its getting increasingly uncompetitive. The only issue is that from about the 8th or 9th 'best' leagues (UEFA rankings), the leagues are dominated in much the same way by a couple of historically good sides who have the largest crowds/fanbases and so the biggest incomes and transfer/wage budgets. This allows the easy, facile counterargument "So what about Scotland/Belgium/Portugal".

How does the English league compare in head to head games? Well, I guess Bolton vs Atletico Madrid in Feb probably won't count due to Bolton's poor form. Spurs did lose 2-1 to Getafe, earlier in the competition. Newcastle lost to Alkmaar and Spurs to Seville last season, but I guess Seville have pushed up into the Champions League now, so their thrashing of Middlesboro' a few years back can't count.

There are also better leagues for how the fans are treated. Bundesliga stands head and shoulders above the Premier League: still has some terraces, still has fans that are willing and able to fight for their rights.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... pe&cc=5739 is a good place to start.

What can fans do in the Premiership? Nothing. Fans didn't stop Glazers from taking over, years of protests didn't get Ellis or Sugar out. Yet, in Germany, a fan protest actually changed things.

im sure if i wasn't English i wouldn't be saying its the best, its just cos its what i've had driven into me by the media in this country.

I think there's a big truth in that. You're told day in, day out that Lampard and Gerrard are the best midfielders in the world, or up there, yet Del Piero and Gattuso, for example have accumulated more trophies and medals from a young age upwards. Germany tend to do better than England and their players get very little respect/credit.

They don't get crowds in spain and no away fans travel, thats poor enough in itself.

An utterly different culture. What would away attendences be in England if most games were televised? I'd also guess the pretty piss-poor transport links in Spain don't help.

Its the same in Italy - almost every game can be watched on television. Issues with fan violence mean that people, families, watch it at home, as a family, or go to the local bar and watch the games there.

I guess the viewing figures do show that there's an attraction there. But outside the Top 4, is there? You're happy to say nobody respects us, things we're an irrelevence. Isn't the same true for most of the teams in the bottom half?

There's even a fairly compelling argument that the Championship is a much better league to follow than the premiership. What you lose in terms of quality of football you gain in a randomness from week to week and season to season.

[Deadlock]

They don't get crowds in spain and no away fans travel, thats poor enough in itself.

An utterly different culture. What would away attendences be in England if most games were televised? I'd also guess the pretty piss-poor transport links in Spain don't help.

Add to that the fact that Spain is much bigger than England. There are the derbies - Barcelona / Espanyol, Sevilla / Betis, Valencia / Levante, and Real / Atletico / Getafe; but outside that there are some seriously long journeys involved. Barcelona to Seville is over 1000km, and it's even further to La Coruna. That's over 12 hours by car one way. Then there's the trip to Mallorca, or even worse to Tenerife when they're in the division.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Then there's the trip to Mallorca, or even worse to Tenerife when they're in the division.

I'd imagine those trips are percieved in the same way that English fans see a trip to Blackpool / Bournemouth - a decent excuse for a weekend on the shant.

[Riseley]

Any league that has the two biggest clubs in the world in Real and Barca and the best players from South America has got to be considered better than the decidedly average English version.

[papereyes]

Then there's the trip to Mallorca, or even worse to Tenerife when they're in the division.

I'd imagine those trips are percieved in the same way that English fans see a trip to Blackpool / Bournemouth - a decent excuse for a weekend on the shant.

But if they're on telly, why bother going?

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Then there's the trip to Mallorca, or even worse to Tenerife when they're in the division.

I'd imagine those trips are percieved in the same way that English fans see a trip to Blackpool / Bournemouth - a decent excuse for a weekend on the shant.

But if they're on telly, why bother going?

OK then, why do any fans bother going to games when if the game is on TV?

[soggy biscuit]

Well, I guess Bolton vs Atletico Madrid in Feb probably won't count due to Bolton's poor form.

Poor form or not that would be a quite ludicrous comparison. Atletico are historically a very big club and are expected to (and look like they will) finish in the top 4 this season with many people predicting that they will push hard for 2nd place, they spent €80M on new players this summer alone.

[papereyes]

Then there's the trip to Mallorca, or even worse to Tenerife when they're in the division.

I'd imagine those trips are percieved in the same way that English fans see a trip to Blackpool / Bournemouth - a decent excuse for a weekend on the shant.

But if they're on telly, why bother going?

OK then, why do any fans bother going to games when if the game is on TV?

A proportion of fans don't. Maybe that's why Italy's games have low attendances given that all of them appear to be on TV ...

[papereyes]

Well, I guess Bolton vs Atletico Madrid in Feb probably won't count due to Bolton's poor form.

Poor form or not that would be a quite ludicrous comparison. Atletico are historically a very big club and are expected to (and look like they will) finish in the top 4 this season with many people predicting that they will push hard for 2nd place, they spent €80M on new players this summer alone.

Nearest thing to teams from the middle orders of the two leagues playing each other in the next round of the UEFA cup. I'm sure you can get an apology from the draw.

[T.R.O.L.I.]

Or they've gone the way of the Dutch league where, if you are a Dutch resident, you have to register the club you support and for away games you have to travel from the town / city that your club is based in arranged transport. Which is fine until you have for example an Ajax v Feyenoord game and you're a Feyenoord fan living in Amsterdam...

[papereyes]

Isn't that much the same with English clubs in Europe? You can only, really, get tickets through the official ticket office and that comes with travel included.

God knows how the ticket office in Reading would cope if we ever actually got to Europe.

[size 12]

Going off on a tangent, but I've just read "Foul" by Andrew Jennings, which basically describes how Blatter presides over one of the most corrupt governing bodies you are ever likely to see

The guy is not a fit and proper person for the job he is doing, and I for one just cannot take anything he says seriously

[Dirk Gently]

Isn't that much the same with English clubs in Europe? You can only, really, get tickets through the official ticket office and that comes with travel included.

God knows how the ticket office in Reading would cope if we ever actually got to Europe.

These days it's mostly subcontracted out to specialist operators, so I think the club would be Ok as long as they';d setup one of these deals first - and you could be sure the second the club qualified for anything in Europe the operators would be hammering on the door looking for business, so I reckon they'd do OK.

Not sure I like the implied compulsion that you can only travel on "official" transport, though. People have to be able to make their own travel arrangements and just buy tickets.