Time to button it, John Madejski

[Tinrib]

Pompey, Middlesbrough, Bolton and Blackburn used/ are using which method?

How many of those have bounced between Premier/Championship Leagues in recent history?

[CMRoyal]

Pompey, Middlesbrough, Bolton and Blackburn used/ are using which method?

All have had their ups and downs, they've all tasted 2nd tier football in the last 10 years (I think - I stand to be corrected), and Pompey and Boro (I think?) had financial issues in establishing themselves in the top division. Blackburn wasted millions on Kevin Davies the year they got relegated. So, I'd say they learnt from their mistakes and probably used a similar method to us in getting themselves where they are. They are a few years ahead of us though, obviously, and arguably building from a bigger base in some respects (Jack Walker/Steve Gibson mega-millions, for example, much of which has been wasted). My point is we are kidding ourselves if we think we can leap up to their level in one bound.

[Hoop Blah]

Well done Dirk, that sums things up very well and I think it's just about the first time I've ever seen you come close to criticising the way the club is run!

I've never wanted Madejski to saddle us with massive debt or for him and Coppell to pay out silly wages on mercenaries who would have no feeling for the club and just be here to rape us for as much cash as possible. I have always wanted us to push ourselves sensibly and do our utmost to improve at every possible turn and show real ambition and drive in doing so.

I don't think we've done that at times and I think we're paying the price for that right now.

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

[Stranded]

Pompey, Middlesbrough, Bolton and Blackburn used/ are using which method?

Bolton were a yo-yo club for many years. Being relatively prudent initially, taking relegation on the chin but with a decent stability.

Blackburn went from being a rich man's hobby to having to cut their cloth, were relegated but were stable and then built again slowly but surely.

Boro came up, splurged on big names still got relegated, came back were fairly prudent for a while and spend big money now only if they've raked it in from sales.

Pompey have a rich Russian throwing money at them allowing them to spend the cash they do. Before that they were fairly prudent also if memory serves.

[strap]

Threads that slag off The Chairman, they bother me.
He's put £Millions into the club, and he gets criticised for not putting enough £Millions in.

He LOANS the club millions, and gets scared when he sees the opportunity of doubling or tripling it via a sale disappearing through lack of foresight.

Get your oxf*rd facts right you oxf*rd RTG numpty tw@t.
I oxf*rd HATE idiots who spout oxf*rd nonsense without ever bothering to actually look at the oxf*rd FACTS!!
(Am I turning into SDR???? )

[Skin]

Spolit children > Reading fans

I think many Reading fans have lost sight of the fact we were once grateful to still be Reading Football Club.

In many respects it might have been better had we not got to the Premiership if we can't deal with with the fact that our sugar daddy has a limit on how much he is prepared to spend on us.

[CMRoyal]

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

True, but I guess what I was trying to illustrate that there's no easy way to immediately establish yourself in the Premier League - can anyone think of a team that has been promoted in the last ten years and stayed there ever since? I'm not saying there aren't any (Bolton, maybe?), but even West Ham and Pompey are only 5-6 years "old" Premiership teams. So, as I read this thread and pondered that fact, John Mad's caution suddenly made sense to me. Anyway, there's a certain amount of Devil's Advocacy being employed on my part, but the argument was rattling around my empty old head, so I thought I'd put it down here.

[CMRoyal]

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

True, but I guess what I was trying to illustrate that there's no easy way to immediately establish yourself in the Premier League - can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since? I'm not saying there aren't any (Bolton, maybe?), but even West Ham and Pompey are only 5-6 years "old" Premiership teams. So, as I read this thread and pondered that fact, John Mad's caution suddenly made sense to me. Anyway, there's a certain amount of Devil's Advocacy being employed on my part, but the argument was rattling around my empty old head, so I thought I'd put it down here.

EDIT: rushing this, making mistakes, edited above. Back to work I think!

[RG30]

4 years ago, this club were training at Bradfield College during the summer months, and Reading Hockey Club during the winter. It was through the Chairman's desire that we finally got a respectable training ground that has now been developed to the standard that will last long after the Chairman has gone.

It's easy pointing fingers when things aern't going well, only a few months ago I was aiming my verbal's at him but regardless of what happens, this football club will be in a far better position than the one that got promoted 2 years ago. By all means, they're are things that iritate me but generally speaking, we've come a hell of a long way in such a short space of time.

If we survive, then great. I think we'll see a change in attitude as a club generally though and it wouldn't surprise me that should we survive, Mr Madejski will actively look for outside investment because it's clear he can't/won't support a Premiership club because the numbers keeps rising season in season out.

[Hoop Blah]

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

True, but I guess what I was trying to illustrate that there's no easy way to immediately establish yourself in the Premier League - can anyone think of a team that has been promoted in the last ten years and stayed there ever since? I'm not saying there aren't any (Bolton, maybe?), but even West Ham and Pompey are only 5-6 years "old" Premiership teams. So, as I read this thread and pondered that fact, John Mad's caution suddenly made sense to me. Anyway, there's a certain amount of Devil's Advocacy being employed on my part, but the argument was rattling around my empty old head, so I thought I'd put it down here.

I agree it's not easy, it's a competitive league where there are probably 8-10 who start the season fighting not to be one of the bottom 3. All I ask is that we do everything we can to give ourselves the best chance of being the best we can be. That doesn't mean just avoiding the drop, it means trying to finish as high up the league as possible by winning as many games as possible.

Personally I don't think our model has given us the best chance of doing that, and I don't like it!

[Platypuss]

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

True, but I guess what I was trying to illustrate that there's no easy way to immediately establish yourself in the Premier League - can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since? I'm not saying there aren't any (Bolton, maybe?), but even West Ham and Pompey are only 5-6 years "old" Premiership teams. So, as I read this thread and pondered that fact, John Mad's caution suddenly made sense to me. Anyway, there's a certain amount of Devil's Advocacy being employed on my part, but the argument was rattling around my empty old head, so I thought I'd put it down here.

Boro.

[brendywendy]

4 years ago, this club were training at Bradfield College during the summer months, and Reading Hockey Club during the winter. It was through the Chairman's desire that we finally got a respectable training ground that has now been developed to the standard that will last long after the Chairman has gone.

It's easy pointing fingers when things aern't going well, only a few months ago I was aiming my verbal's at him but regardless of what happens, this football club will be in a far better position than the one that got promoted 2 years ago. By all means, they're are things that iritate me but generally speaking, we've come a hell of a long way in such a short space of time.

If we survive, then great. I think we'll see a change in attitude as a club generally though and it wouldn't surprise me that should we survive, Mr Madejski will actively look for outside investment because it's clear he can't/won't support a Premiership club because the numbers keeps rising season in season out.

shpot on

[Hoop Blah]

CMRoyal, I think the biggest flaw in your examples is that none of them managed to keep themselves in the Premiership for a sustained period of time. They're definately models I'd want us to follow.

True, but I guess what I was trying to illustrate that there's no easy way to immediately establish yourself in the Premier League - can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since? I'm not saying there aren't any (Bolton, maybe?), but even West Ham and Pompey are only 5-6 years "old" Premiership teams. So, as I read this thread and pondered that fact, John Mad's caution suddenly made sense to me. Anyway, there's a certain amount of Devil's Advocacy being employed on my part, but the argument was rattling around my empty old head, so I thought I'd put it down here.

Boro.

Arsenal?

[Platypuss]

Johnny come latelys.

[Pridders]

Threads that slag off The Chairman, they bother me.
He's put £Millions into the club, and he gets criticised for not putting enough £Millions in.

You need to invest more than just millions to stay in the top flight you mug...

[CMRoyal]

can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since?

Arsenal?

Asked for that, didn't I? I was going to edit it yet again, but I hope my point is clear: outside of the privileged elite it takes a lot to establish a club in the Premier League for more than a handful of years. So you better make sure you're in good shape to cope with the yo-yo effect for a while first.

But we are staying up, so it's all academic. This season.

[Scylla]

can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since?

Arsenal?

Asked for that, didn't I? I was going to edit it yet again, but I hope my point is clear: outside of the privileged elite it takes a lot to establish a club in the Premier League for more than a handful of years. So you better make sure you're in good shape to cope with the yo-yo effect for a while first.

But we are staying up, so it's all academic. This season.

Arsenal cheated their way in so they don't count.

[Hoop Blah]

can anyone think of a team that has been promoted from ten years ago or longer and stayed there ever since?

Arsenal?

Asked for that, didn't I? I was going to edit it yet again, but I hope my point is clear: outside of the privileged elite it takes a lot to establish a club in the Premier League for more than a handful of years. So you better make sure you're in good shape to cope with the yo-yo effect for a while first.

But we are staying up, so it's all academic. This season.

I do agree with your point, it takes a lot to stay up and the law of averages means most sides will have to sample relegation from the Premiership at one point or another, especialy those that have been recently promoted because by definition their teams won't be as strong as those existing Premiership sides.

That doesn't change the fact that we should be striving to stay in the league every season.

For the record other sides that have been in the league for a decent amount of time without being relegated are Newcastle (since 94), Fulham (02), Bolton (02), Blackburn (02), Man City (03) and then the likes of Villa and Chelsea managed it just before the Premiership reared it's ugly head in 89 and 90 respectively.

[John Peel]

I think we've reached a junction in the development of the football club, and the powers that be don't know which way to go.

a) spend a s*it load of money and not guarantee success (Newcastle are the worst culprits here)

b) long term view - take their time, developing a yo-yo club which gets stronger and more attractive to players who currently don't want to go to a club like Reading. This doesn't guarantee success either, but at least makes for a financially stable club (unlike most the other 91 in the league).

Not sure what to make of it really. Have a feeling that there's a divide between those who experienced a sh*t team with no prospects for many years and those that started following them after the promotion from the old second.

I think both sides have made some fair points. Yes, we have to take things slowly, but if we take too long we could wind up being a nothing club in the Championship.

Mr Mad's coming to an event we're holding next Monday. What do you want me to ask him???

[Hoop Blah]

Not sure what to make of it really. Have a feeling that there's a divide between those who experienced a sh*t team with no prospects for many years and those that started following them after the promotion from the old second.

I don't think thats where the split lies to be fair.

Amongts those I watch Reading with we've all been watching for at least about 20 years and some fall on either side of the arguement.