Whole Stadium to be a Cash free zone. (UPDATED)

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Sir Rodger Doyle
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Sir Rodger Doyle » 07 Mar 2008 21:31

Dirk Gently
Row Z Royal Unbridled disaster waiting to happen, though I suppose at least you can't be short-changed by the idiots behind the counter.


That's a very open-minded and positive attitude. :wink:

As I understand it, this will be trialled in the Upper West stand - ISTR at the Blackburn match.

You'll load up your member card like an oyster card, and then use that to pay at the kiosks. I'm assured there'll be plenty of ways to load the card up (machines or even over t'internet) so why shouldn't it work ok? This type of system is used in thousands of schools, colleges and work canteens.


You are Jacky Evans and

ICMFP :)

jonboy29red
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Re: Cash free zone.

by jonboy29red » 07 Mar 2008 21:39

seeing as the blackburn game is soon dont u think it was time that the club announced what they were planning to do

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TFF
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Re: Cash free zone.

by TFF » 12 Mar 2008 09:20

This is breaking news on BBCRB this morning. Dirk greeting it with an "open mind".

Andrew Peach - what a twat.

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Huntley & Palmer
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Huntley & Palmer » 12 Mar 2008 09:42

So let me get this right, RFC look to spend millions on a new technology to pay for your food and merchandise but refuse to actually do anything about the quality of point of sale? oxf*rd idiots

Shaka's Giant Hands
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Shaka's Giant Hands » 12 Mar 2008 12:58

Will this be extended to the burger vans outside?


Chairman Maodejski
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Chairman Maodejski » 14 Mar 2008 12:49

Can anyone clarify whether cash will be an acceptable method of payment in conjunction with the card things?

If so, completely open minded about this.

If not, I must say I have a few qualms.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Dirk Gently » 14 Mar 2008 12:54

I think so - I believe that there will be different queues /kiosks : 1 with card payment only and one with cash. Presumably the latter will have the fewest, lowest calibre staff on it so it moves slowest.

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Re: Cash free zone.

by Physci » 14 Mar 2008 13:26

Dirk Gently I think so - I believe that there will be different queues /kiosks : 1 with card payment only and one with cash. Presumably the latter will have the fewest, lowest calibre staff on it so it moves slowest.


Then presumably followed quickly by a Ken Livingstone-like price hike for using cash rather than the card eg £5/pint for cash, £3/pint for paying with the card, the difference being to "encourage people not to use cash"due to the "cost" of processing cash...

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RoyalBlue
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Re: Cash free zone.

by RoyalBlue » 14 Mar 2008 14:27

The Surgeon of Crowthorne I can only foresee chaos here (sorry to be negative Dirk):
Instead of queuing once at half-time, you'll now have to queue twice - I know you can load your card in advance but plenty of time you'll either forget or not realise.
Loads of people will get to the front of the counter queue, order & only when they come to pay find they don't have enough on their card.
As RB says, the money loading machines will break down.

Similar systems I've used before have "loaded" the money onto the card itself. Is that the plan at RFC, or is to be stored on a database, keyed by your member number? If it is the latter, then this should circumvent problems with corrupted or lost cards.


But the latter would mean all terminals (loaders, tills etc.) having to be networked and if the network/data base goes down - complete and utter chaos.


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Matt de K
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Matt de K » 14 Mar 2008 14:32

Queue cutting? Cash free zone??? What a load of rubbish. More like another way to force supporters to spend X ammount of money at the club.

I'll tell ya what - it'll well bugger up our half time pints system.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Dirk Gently » 14 Mar 2008 14:59

Matt de K Queue cutting? Cash free zone??? What a load of rubbish. More like another way to force supporters to spend X ammount of money at the club.

I'll tell ya what - it'll well bugger up our half time pints system.


Eh? How does it force anyone to spend anything? If you don't like it, don't spend it!

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TFF
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Re: Cash free zone.

by TFF » 14 Mar 2008 15:20

I guess the club are looking at this in the way that most shops look at gift vouchers. Gift vouchers are like gold to the retailer, they have the money in the till without parting with any goods, a significant percentage never get used and those that do are normally topped up at point of sale.

A couple of questions I'll be asking before I make an interest free loan to the club.

If you have money on your card but decide for whatever reason that you no longer wish to make use of it or can you get the cash back again? Maybe at the end of a season?

If there's a tenner on your card but your round comes to £12 can you pay the difference in cash?

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Dirk Gently » 14 Mar 2008 15:33

I'd imagine the real advantages to them are that they don't have to count, bag and bank vast quantities of small-denomination cash after the game, as well as making sure that tills balance and have floats ready.

There's also the benefit that it makes it harder for the casual workers on minimum wage to supplement their low wages in a proactive way.


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Re: Cash free zone.

by TFF » 14 Mar 2008 16:00

Dirk Gently I'd imagine the real advantages to them are that they don't have to count, bag and bank vast quantities of small-denomination cash after the game, as well as making sure that tills balance and have floats ready.

There's also the benefit that it makes it harder for the casual workers on minimum wage to supplement their low wages in a proactive way.


Aren't those the franchise holder's problems?

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Dirk Gently » 14 Mar 2008 16:04

That Friday Feeling
Dirk Gently I'd imagine the real advantages to them are that they don't have to count, bag and bank vast quantities of small-denomination cash after the game, as well as making sure that tills balance and have floats ready.

There's also the benefit that it makes it harder for the casual workers on minimum wage to supplement their low wages in a proactive way.


Aren't those the franchise holder's problems?


Yep.

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Re: Cash free zone.

by TFF » 14 Mar 2008 16:06

Dirk Gently
That Friday Feeling
Dirk Gently I'd imagine the real advantages to them are that they don't have to count, bag and bank vast quantities of small-denomination cash after the game, as well as making sure that tills balance and have floats ready.

There's also the benefit that it makes it harder for the casual workers on minimum wage to supplement their low wages in a proactive way.


Aren't those the franchise holder's problems?


Yep.


Am I missing something here?

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bobby1413
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Re: Cash free zone.

by bobby1413 » 14 Mar 2008 16:30

Call me "Mr Cynical", but I just can't see the club or whoever is going to make and implement it, doing it correctly without any glitches. 20'000 supporters going to buy a drink, and testing a brand new system... there maybe trouble ahead.

Good points raised, especially about the refund of the money you put on the card. Surely if you top the card up with £5, then the next week if you want to, you can get that £5 back in full without loss. Somehow I doubt it will be that easy, as they'll probably charge some sort of admin fee or something.

Also, if you borrow someone's member card and you don't have one then you're pretty stuffed. However, this is not the clubs problem really.

Seems a bit of a con really and a solution to the wrong problem. The problem being that the staff they have are not able enough to do the job required. However, I would imagine it's probably quite hard to get enough good staff to do that job, especially as it's for 90 minutes, twice a month. Not much motivation for them.

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PieEater
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Re: Cash free zone.

by PieEater » 14 Mar 2008 16:40

It will be interesting to know what arrangements there are between the caterers and RFC should the system fail in whole or part, or run slowly. The caterers could lose income due to an RFC IT problem.

Also the type of people using these machines will be very different to a company system; should Joe Public get done out of £5 from a lost card, what is stop them stuffing chewing gum into a refill machine?

I can see many benefits for RFC but not too many for the users. Personally I only get a drink before the game, never at half time, and I'm quite happy not to bother if it gets to be too much hassle.

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Dirk Gently
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Dirk Gently » 14 Mar 2008 16:47

bobby1413 Call me "Mr Cynical", but I just can't see the club or whoever is going to make and implement it, doing it correctly without any glitches. 20'000 supporters going to buy a drink, and testing a brand new system... there maybe trouble ahead.

Good points raised, especially about the refund of the money you put on the card. Surely if you top the card up with £5, then the next week if you want to, you can get that £5 back in full without loss. Somehow I doubt it will be that easy, as they'll probably charge some sort of admin fee or something.

Also, if you borrow someone's member card and you don't have one then you're pretty stuffed. However, this is not the clubs problem really.

Seems a bit of a con really and a solution to the wrong problem. The problem being that the staff they have are not able enough to do the job required. However, I would imagine it's probably quite hard to get enough good staff to do that job, especially as it's for 90 minutes, twice a month. Not much motivation for them.


On the first paragraph that's why they're not testing it on 20000 supporters - the trial is just for the Upper West - to let them iron out glitches and see how it performs - so all credit to them for not foisting it on everyone in a "big bang" stylee.

I'd also be very surprised if they did charge any admin fee to get money back - I'm not sure that would be justifiable or even legal, and I'm not convinced they'd be able to persuade anyone to use the system if they tried.

Agree on the last paragraph - I think it's clear to everyone that Compass (the catering company which runs the kiosks) does not pay for the right calibre of staff to enable the queues to move quickly without error. Paying more would get better staff who are more competent and motivated. But perhaps the contract RFC has with Compass means that they can't do this without increasing costs - if so, that's good for RFC commercially, of course as they've obviously negotiated the contract well.

Personally, though, I don't have any great problem with this - I can't see how it's an attempt to rip off fans, it doesn't mean I have to carry another card with me, and after the first few matches (when people are getting used to it) it will , hopefully, speed things up even if it's a little bit. But of course, as with all systems, there will be teething problems - remember the early days of the smart card ticketing system?

The biggest problem, from talking to other supporters about these systems, is that you can generally only load the cards up in denominations of £5, £10 etc - which won't be a problem for regular supporters but could be a problem for those who only come occasionally, as they'll have money they can't use left of their card.

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Huntley & Palmer
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Re: Cash free zone.

by Huntley & Palmer » 14 Mar 2008 17:14

So I presume they are going to reissue everyone with a new member card with this chip in if the project tests successfully?

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