Prima donnas - Fae & Sonko suspended by club

[papereyes]

If it's not explicit, it's certainly an inference (if not an extrapolation!)

Well, no. Someone claimed that the vast majority were successful. His point, if I'm not mistaken and please correct me if I am, was that that claim was not the case.

Certainly, in certain periods of Coppell's stint at Reading, the vast majority of signings have not been successful. Early on, when we were dealing with the fall-out from Pardew leaving, you expect/tolerate it. But since we've needed to push on, I don't think we have been as successful as we could have been. (There's also something else I've seen but I think its more a symptom of football in general but ... Lita, Seol, Halford and Fae were all biggest signings at the time. At leats three of those would be down as the most vocal critics of Coppell from within the squad)

I'll add my usual caveat: if our finances genuinely mean that we will struggle to do so then I withdraw my comments completely.

And certainly when you get posters claiming that players like Bennett were not failures at the club ...

[papereyes]

Bennett had a very successful spell at Southampton who wanted him back ....

Sorry, for a second there, I thought we were talking about successful Reading players.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

Well as you're so convinced that every signing he's made has been a complete failure, why don't you fill us in with the facts, or should it be FACTs?

Where have I said that every signing he's made has been a failure? Go on, find the quote. Moron

What is this Tourettes with you that you have to resort to abuse all the time. Give it a rest. The clear inference is that Coppell isn't able to sign decent players.

What I have said (and indicated by outlining who we have signed and working out the ratio in decimal form)is that Coppell's signings with a view to establishing ourselves in the Premier League have been poor. His signings in the summer of 2005 were good, but by the same token his signings the season previous to that were diabolical. If strap has a list of all Coppell's signings, I may refresh some people's memories. My original point is nothing to do with Coppell's Championship signings as I believe him to be a reasonable Football League manager.

Many of his signings in that summer have also proven themselves to be OK at this level too.

HOWEVER, at every one of the three clubs he has managed in the English top flight, Coppell has failed to bring in the players required to take his team to the next level - he reached a peak at Palace in his first season there before they slowly declined and went back down, he found the pressure of working with top players too much for him at a big club like Man City and now he's having trouble bringing in and working with foreign players or so-called 'big time Charlies'. Unfortunately for Coppell, in this modern era of the game footballers have large egos which need managing carefully - most of the best players have big egos and you need to be able to control them. Look at Redknapp at Pompey with Glen Johnson, Sol Campbell, Diarra and Kanu for example, who have all gone off the rails in the past.

Given Redknapp's transfer dealings, I would hazard a guess that his ratio of successful to unsuccessful signings isn't great either - Joey Beauchamp, Marco Boogers, anyone?

Firstly, you need to be able to attract this calibre of player to succeed at this level, which our manager simply hasn't managed thus far, and then manage them, which Coppell is clearly having problems with given the words of Lita, Fae, Sonko and Matejovsky.

Add to this the man's dreadful team selections and lack of courage to change things early during games and it summarises exactly why we will never fully establish ourselves in the big time with Coppell at the helm.

Virtually all clubs have players (or their agents) spouting off in the media these days, it's become part of the game. And, as others have stated, it isn't just down to the manager as to whether the right players can be attracted to a club.

[andrew1957]

Bennett had a very successful spell at Southampton who wanted him back ....

Sorry, for a second there, I thought we were talking about successful Reading players.

Yes but how can you write a player off as a failure that still has a year left on his contract and "may" still play or be sold at a profit. I fail to see how it is a failure to buy a player as cover - then sell him at a profit - like Halford. This may yet apply to Bennett and Sodje.

You can only say whether any purchase has been a success or failure if either a/ they play regularly and make an impact or b/ after they have left the club for a profit (Halford) or a loss (Halls and Stack most likely).

[brendywendy]

coppells transfers have been as successful as anyones operating in the same price range
every manager buys a dud-and furgusons duds total 10s of millions more than ours

to be fair fae has started to look more like a player over the last few months-knocked back by malaria, then close to regaining his bench space and pushing for a start

both he and sonko have done nowt significantly positive when they have played to make coppell reconsider
and their actions over the last few days have shown them to be braindead morons
worst possible action, at worst possible time, just appalling
there really is no defending it

seol left becuase he wanted to be near his countrymen in new malden, 1st team footy was nowt to do with it as demonstrated by his noshow for fulham this year

halford is at least neutral, we made a profit. end of.

duberry has been just what we needed when we bought him
a solid experienced defender
bikey has been awesome, loved him since he arrived, worked hard and is now a fixture in the team
rosenior
as solid a pro as ive seen, dependable, pacey, good positionally and bags of improvement potential we got so much more out of that deal that fulham must be ruing the day they let their sponsors dictate who they sign/let go
DLC-
bags of ability, pace, proffessionalism and experience
never, ever let us down-and since he was bought as cover it would be disingenuous to argue he has failed as a 1st team regular
sodje-bought for numbers when 1st targets fell through, did a job, and was unlucky in some ways.
cisse was given an ovation in a couple of ghis games at CB-looked more off pace as CM but i reckon hes got enough to be a success next year.
marek-oozes class for me, could be bargain of the season if we stay up
Kebe-tall pacy winger at a time when that was what we really needed-hasnt worked out, yet
halls-awful
lita scored goals to get us, and keep us up-bargain for 1 million

not lumping kids in that list like you just to make it look worse-theyre kids, and their worth will become apparent if the worst happens

[Vision]

2003

Ingimarrsson
Morgan
Kitson

2004
Owusu
Sonko
Brooker
Convey


2005

Doyle
Long
Hunt
Gunnarsson
Oster
Makin
Brown

2006

Golbourne
Halls
Seol
Sodje
Stack
DLC

2007

Bozancic
Halford
Duberry
Cisse
Fae
Rosenior
Vasilev


2008

Matejovsky
Kebe


This is from soccerbase which isn't always 100 % accurate. But feel free to add comments,

[Royalee]

1. Tourettes? I called you a moron, which you are appearing to be more and more with every new post.
2. Yes, Kitson, Doyle and so forth are alright at this level, but when you say okay, I do hope you're not referring to verging on relegation as the last time I checked, that didn't fall under the definition of 'okay at this level'.
3. Find me a list of Redknapp's signings and I'll show you the vast errors of your ways once again - it shouldn't take long.
4. Find me a list of Bolton, Birmingham and Fulham's players spouting off days before the most important games of their seasons.

You make these ridiculous claims like those within my last two points, but fail to find the balanced data to back up your fabrications, which is what frustrates me so much about posters like yourself - you never stop to take everything in and question the club you believe in. I love Reading Football Club and will continue to do so, but it will never stop me questioning the way things are done when everyone from the outside looking in seems to think we're going backwards as a club. There's only so long you can blindly throw your support at something when frankly it's management is going all out to destroy everything it has achieved.

[papereyes]

Bennett had a very successful spell at Southampton who wanted him back ....

Sorry, for a second there, I thought we were talking about successful Reading players.

Yes but how can you write a player off as a failure that still has a year left on his contract and "may" still play or be sold at a profit.

I don't really see selling on at a profit as a success, because of the wages paid and also because I hope we sign players to improve the squad and the starting XI. If we sign a player and he fails not only to make the starting XI but also most subs benches, then I certainly would not regard him as a successful signing.

He's probably on the failure end of 'jury's out', but ... seriously now ... he's hardly been a success. OK, I'll change it slightly. Bennett has not been a success so far. Fae has not been a success so far. Halford was not a success but the extent of that was mitigated by getting the money we did for him.

[andrew1957]

Well as you're so convinced that every signing he's made has been a complete failure, why don't you fill us in with the facts, or should it be FACTs?

Where have I said that every signing he's made has been a failure? Go on, find the quote. Moron

What I have said (and indicated by outlining who we have signed and working out the ratio in decimal form)is that Coppell's signings with a view to establishing ourselves in the Premier League have been poor. His signings in the summer of 2005 were good, but by the same token his signings the season previous to that were diabolical. If strap has a list of all Coppell's signings, I may refresh some people's memories. My original point is nothing to do with Coppell's Championship signings as I believe him to be a reasonable Football League manager.

HOWEVER, at every one of the three clubs he has managed in the English top flight, Coppell has failed to bring in the players required to take his team to the next level - he reached a peak at Palace in his first season there before they slowly declined and went back down, he found the pressure of working with top players too much for him at a big club like Man City and now he's having trouble bringing in and working with foreign players or so-called 'big time Charlies'. Unfortunately for Coppell, in this modern era of the game footballers have large egos which need managing carefully - most of the best players have big egos and you need to be able to control them. Look at Redknapp at Pompey with Glen Johnson, Sol Campbell, Diarra and Kanu for example, who have all gone off the rails in the past.

Firstly, you need to be able to attract this calibre of player to succeed at this level, which our manager simply hasn't managed thus far, and then manage them, which Coppell is clearly having problems with given the words of Lita, Fae, Sonko and Matejovsky.

Add to this the man's dreadful team selections and lack of courage to change things early during games and it summarises exactly why we will never fully establish ourselves in the big time with Coppell at the helm.

What you have said probably applies to most mangers outside the top 4. It is easy for the top 4 as they can pay tens of millions for a player and will not get many decisions wrong.

Most other teams have about a 50% success rate - just look at other fan sites if you don't believe me. Most fans moan about their manager's poor signings.

SC has had his failures but the successes outweigh them. The real acid test is the next transfer window if he stays and we survive. Surgery is needed and I think we may be surprised by how many of the current squad move on.

[Royalee]

2003

Ingimarrsson
Morgan
Kitson

2004
Owusu
Sonko
Brooker
Convey


2005

Doyle
Long
Hunt
Gunnarsson
Oster
Makin
Brown

2006

Golbourne
Halls
Seol
Sodje
Stack
DLC

2007

Bozancic
Halford
Duberry
Cisse
Fae
Rosenior
Vasilev


2008

Matejovsky
Kebe


This is from soccerbase which isn't always 100 % accurate. But feel free to add comments,

Good effort, although there are some missing, like Ferdinand and Keown for example.

As for the list that's there...

Ingimarsson - success
Morgan - failure
Kitson - success
Gordon - failure
Ferdinand - failure
Keown - failure
Owusu - failure
Sonko - success
Brooker - failure
Convey - success
Doyle - success
Long - jury still out
Hunt - success
Gunnarsson - success
Oster - failure
Makin - success
Brown - failure
Golbourne - failure
Halls - failure
Seol - failure
Sodje - failure
Mate - failure
Stack - jury out, never really played
De La Cruz - failure
Bozanic - jury out
Halford - failure
Duberry - relative success
Cisse - jury out
Fae - failure
Rosenior - success
Vasilev - jury out
Matejovsky - sucess
Kebe - jury out

33 signings, 11 successes - 0.333, which is still pretty piss poor and I'm pretty sure a couple have been missed out.

[The Surgeon of Crowthorne]

1. Tourettes? I called you a moron, which you are appearing to be more and more with every new post.

Tourettes in terms of being abusive is what I meant & you do it all the time. Debate the point, not the poster.

2. Yes, Kitson, Doyle and so forth are alright at this level, but when you say okay, I do hope you're not referring to verging on relegation as the last time I checked, that didn't fall under the definition of 'okay at this level'.

They have proved themselves capable is what I said & what I meant.

3. Find me a list of Redknapp's signings and I'll show you the vast errors of your ways once again - it shouldn't take long.

No, I can't be arsed. You brought him up & I know from your previous posts you prefer him to SC, but he's made duff signings just as every manager does.

4. Find me a list of Bolton, Birmingham and Fulham's players spouting off days before the most important games of their seasons.

Can't be arsed again, but you know it happens

You make these ridiculous claims like those within my last two points, but fail to find the balanced data to back up your fabrications, which is what frustrates me so much about posters like yourself - you never stop to take everything in and question the club you believe in. I love Reading Football Club and will continue to do so, but it will never stop me questioning the way things are done when everyone from the outside looking in seems to think we're going backwards as a club. There's only so long you can blindly throw your support at something when frankly it's management is going all out to destroy everything it has achieved.

What are my fabrications exactly, that Boogers & Beauchamp weren't successful signings for Harry? Of course I'm not happy with where the club is and what they're on the verge of throwing away & I don't deny a lot of mistakes have been made this season nor do I not question what happens at the club. But I don't think the solution is/was a change of management (although I think that that is very likely this summer, probably regardless of the results in the next 2 games) or that SC hasn't been anything but good for the club.

[SpaceCruiser]

Seol - left after a season angry at Coppell - left us with no right winger for the majority of this season - failure.

*SIGH* I do wish people wouldn't quote you as I have you on my ignore list so I wouldn't have to read your frankly ridiculous statements.

What evidence do you have that Seol was at all angry with Coppell? I seem to recall that he was attracted to the idea of playing closer to the existing Korean community. He was in the Reading team at the time of the sale.

[andrew1957]

2003

Ingimarrsson
Morgan
Kitson

2004
Owusu
Sonko
Brooker
Convey


2005

Doyle
Long
Hunt
Gunnarsson
Oster
Makin
Brown

2006

Golbourne
Halls
Seol
Sodje
Stack
DLC

2007

Bozancic
Halford
Duberry
Cisse
Fae
Rosenior
Vasilev


2008

Matejovsky
Kebe


This is from soccerbase which isn't always 100 % accurate. But feel free to add comments,

Good effort, although there are some missing, like Ferdinand and Keown for example.

As for the list that's there...

Ingimarsson - success
Morgan - failure
Kitson - success
Gordon - failure
Ferdinand - failure
Keown - failure
Owusu - failure
Sonko - success
Brooker - failure
Convey - success
Doyle - success
Long - jury still out
Hunt - success
Gunnarsson - success
Oster - failure
Makin - success
Brown - failure
Golbourne - failure
Halls - failure
Seol - failure
Sodje - failure
Mate - failure
Stack - jury out, never really played
De La Cruz - failure
Bozanic - jury out
Halford - failure
Duberry - relative success
Cisse - jury out
Fae - failure
Rosenior - success
Vasilev - jury out
Matejovsky - sucess
Kebe - jury out

33 signings, 11 successes - 0.333, which is still pretty piss poor and I'm pretty sure a couple have been missed out.

Some of those are very harsh or you have labelled players that were brought in to do a job for a few months like Keown and Ferdinand. Owusu actually did a good job for us so not a failure. And you have effectively counted all the jury outs as failures when saying the success rate is only 0.333.

Who was Gordon - cannot even remember.

Would not agree that Oster, Seol, Mate or DLC have been failures.

In reality it has been at least 50% success - which is about what I would expect.

[brendywendy]

cant believe i took him off mine in a fit of something last month

[The 17 Bus]

What evidence do you have that Seol was at all angry with Coppell? I seem to recall that he was attracted to the idea of playing closer to the existing Korean community. He was in the Reading team at the time of the sale.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 988706.stm do keep up Spacey

[papereyes]

you have labelled players that were brought in to do a job for a few months like Keown and Ferdinand

and look at what a job they did.

Would not agree that Oster, Seol, Mate or DLC have been failures.

I'd be VERY hard pressed to call Mate and Seol successes.

[Vision]

2003

Ingimarrsson
Morgan
Kitson

2004
Owusu
Sonko
Brooker
Convey


2005

Doyle
Long
Hunt
Gunnarsson
Oster
Makin
Brown

2006

Golbourne
Halls
Seol
Sodje
Stack
DLC

2007

Bozancic
Halford
Duberry
Cisse
Fae
Rosenior
Vasilev


2008

Matejovsky
Kebe


This is from soccerbase which isn't always 100 % accurate. But feel free to add comments,

Good effort, although there are some missing, like Ferdinand and Keown for example.

As for the list that's there...

Ingimarsson - success
Morgan - failure
Kitson - success
Gordon - failure
Ferdinand - failure
Keown - failure
Owusu - failure
Sonko - success
Brooker - failure
Convey - success
Doyle - success
Long - jury still out
Hunt - success
Gunnarsson - success
Oster - failure
Makin - success
Brown - failure
Golbourne - failure
Halls - failure
Seol - failure
Sodje - failure
Mate - failure
Stack - jury out, never really played
De La Cruz - failure
Bozanic - jury out
Halford - failure
Duberry - relative success
Cisse - jury out
Fae - failure
Rosenior - success
Vasilev - jury out
Matejovsky - sucess
Kebe - jury out

33 signings, 11 successes - 0.333, which is still pretty piss poor and I'm pretty sure a couple have been missed out.

If the jury is still out then you can't really count them can you? Bozancic and Vasilev shouldn't rea;lly be included because of the fact they were bought straight into the academy and wouldn't have ben expected to feature in the first team as of yet. I didn't include the loans simply because they are too short term really but if you insist i'll allow it. EDIT actually they probably should be included simply because they failed (on the pitch anyway) to give us what they bought in to do.

The one major omission i can see straight away of course is Glen Little (i'm sure you'd chalk him as a success).

I think you need to remember what division we were in and what some of the players were bought in to do before dismissing some as failures. Owusu would be borderline in my opinion and how you can class DLC as a failure when he did exactly what he was bought in to do (Ie do the same job in the Prem as Makin did in the Championship ) I'd also suggest that Oster made crucial contributions to our championship side so was far from a failure even if he's not quite up to Prem standard, Seol certainly earned us points in the crucial early days of the Prem so to call him an outright failure i would also disagree with.

I still cant see looking at that list that there are not more successful signings than failures if you consider when they were bought, how much we paid and what they were bought in to do.

[Chillitsphil]

Ingimarsson - success
Morgan - failure
Kitson - success
Gordon - failure
Ferdinand - failure
Keown - failure
Owusu - failure - disagree, played a role when we were short and scored a few goals
Sonko - success
Brooker - failure - again, played his part, and was a good backup
Convey - success
Doyle - success
Long - jury still out - considering the price... success.
Hunt - success
Gunnarsson - success
Oster - failure - every team needs reliable reserves, oster's attitude has been good and he has looked ok
Makin - success
Brown - failure
Golbourne - failure - we don't know yet?
Halls - failure
Seol - failure - early goals - success
Sodje - failure
Mate - failure - horrible injury - jury is out
Stack - jury out, never really played
De La Cruz - failure - played a part, passed on a lot to kids, how you can say he is a failure is beyond me
Bozanic - jury out
Halford - failure - sold at a profit, success
Duberry - relative success
Cisse - jury out - but cheap and has played some good games for us - relative success
Fae - failure
Rosenior - success
Vasilev - jury out
Matejovsky - sucess
Kebe - jury out


You should take into account that not every player signed is signed to be a superstar, lots come in, do a job, and leave.

[Royalee]

Seol - left after a season angry at Coppell - left us with no right winger for the majority of this season - failure.

*SIGH* I do wish people wouldn't quote you as I have you on my ignore list so I wouldn't have to read your frankly ridiculous statements.

What evidence do you have that Seol was at all angry with Coppell? I seem to recall that he was attracted to the idea of playing closer to the existing Korean community. He was in the Reading team at the time of the sale.

Please place me back on your ignore list, you're far too retarded to enter a debate with myself.

[papereyes]

What about having an intermediate 'beh?'

Jury is out is just bollocks. Especially when applied to a player who came, played one or two games, got injured and left. There is no way the jury is out. The jury is back in and saying "well, certainly not a success, M'lud". OK,its not his fault he was injured and who knows what he could have done, but let's not be sentimental here.

But equally, its not the club's fault that he got injured. So Mate gets a 'beh'.