Dolan: 'Academy is a success'...but Gooding's unconvinced

[jonboy29red]

the problem with acadamys are that alot of the bigger clubs snap up the yongster from clubs around the world and then let em go off for nominal fees if they cant get in to the team like unted and arsenal what was it in the papers the other day united sign a 16yo from roma by offering his dad a job as a groundsman!!we mone about academys but look at were we got sidwell and harper from alot of the problem is that academys had been running ages befor ours started up as for walcott being missed by us thats down to the fart that at the time no scouts were emplyed to go watch the games to spot the youngsters

[JC]

the problem with acadamys are that alot of the bigger clubs snap up the yongster from clubs around the world and then let em go off for nominal fees if they cant get in to the team like unted and arsenal what was it in the papers the other day united sign a 16yo from roma by offering his dad a job as a groundsman!!we mone about academys but look at were we got sidwell and harper from alot of the problem is that academys had been running ages befor ours started up as for walcott being missed by us thats down to the fart that at the time no scouts were emplyed to go watch the games to spot the youngsters

In English?

[Archie's penalty]

But according to you kids go to Crewe because they stand a better chance of getting through to the first team...so where is the "no brainer" between "Premier League Saints or League 1 Reading?" You can't have it both ways!

It's all about how good the academy is for most parents and ours has had a bad reputation for a long long time. It might be better these days, although I know of parents who've chosen Southampton over Reading in the last year or so because of what other parents have said recently, but it won't really improve until we start to produce a decent number of professional players.

I think Pearce and Karacan will surprise us this year and do well. And I disagree about how bad our youth system is - we produced Adie, Scott Taylor, Stuart Lovell and others (this is before the academy though right?). I know a lot of people will disagree but I think Tyson was and is a good player. We'll see how he does this year in the championship...

[Southbank Old Boy]

But according to you kids go to Crewe because they stand a better chance of getting through to the first team...so where is the "no brainer" between "Premier League Saints or League 1 Reading?" You can't have it both ways!

It's all about how good the academy is for most parents and ours has had a bad reputation for a long long time. It might be better these days, although I know of parents who've chosen Southampton over Reading in the last year or so because of what other parents have said recently, but it won't really improve until we start to produce a decent number of professional players.

I think Pearce and Karacan will surprise us this year and do well. And I disagree about how bad our youth system is - we produced Adie, Scott Taylor, Stuart Lovell and others (this is before the academy though right?). I know a lot of people will disagree but I think Tyson was and is a good player. We'll see how he does this year in the championship...

I guess the first test of is it working is the number of first teamers it's provided for Reading. Over the last ten years it's what, Tyson, Henderson (not really one of ours) and Ashdown. All of them only played a handful of games before moving on. Some of those games were very important though. Jamie Young also filled a spot in the squad/bench so you could count him, but I can't remember if he was a real product of our youth system or not.

Hopefully the current crop of youngsters turn out to be the turning point.

The second test would be how many players it's produced who've gone on and made it as professional footballers. Outside of the few mentioned above I can only really think of Adam Lockwood, Simon Cox, Lambert might just fall into that category, Shaun Allaway perhaps, Phil Hadland went on for a few years at league clubs from what I can recall, Johnny Mullins, Louie Soares, and I think a couple of the young keepers (Bradie Clarke?) might've gone on to other pro clubs for at least a short while. There are quite a few players who've gone on to have decent careers below the conference (like Jason Bristow and a few of the other ex-Reading lads at Basingstoke) but basically we've produced about 5 league footballers over the last ten plus years.

I don't think thats a good record really.

Personally I think the pre-academy days do count. It's all our youth football to be honest, and those that go one about the academy only being going for 10 years or whatever it is is a bit like Sky and the pre-Premiership days approach to football.

[Darren Caskey's Dietician]

I aree that our output from the academy is somewhat disappointing. But I think one elemet to look at is the proximity of clubs. Within a reasonable commute/relocation area, we have to compete not only with Southampton, but Portsmouth, Palace, QPR, Arsenal, Fulham, Chelsea, Spurs to name but a few.

If I had a talented child, I would be looking for the best all round package, and historically, I don't think Reading was it. The team in the Reading area who showed the most interest, and often took friends of mine for trials were Palace until the recent past. And a lot of families in the area, until 1997 at least would have frowned on Reading when you looked at our facilities.

I think it stretches further than that. The training ground situation was only resolved about 3 years ago. Our first team didn't even have top standard facilities, let alone the youth set up.

I think the academy will now begin to show some real talent. We have the facilities and set up to compete, and now have a reputation as a club behind us. Had we still been in League One or even the Championship, a lot of the players who were coming through would be in the side. But the club as a whole has gone on from strength to strength in the last 10 years, and the academy needs to catch up with that.

Keep the faith. It will produce the right calibre for us moving forwards, it's just a matter of time.

[RG30]

Some good points raised. The academy IMHO was an expensive flop until Hammond came in and changed the attitude of the academy. Brendan Rodgers left to go Chelsea (highly thought of) but Dolan came in at the 3rd time of asking (having his wages trebled in the process) and although we seem closer than ever before, I still hold major reservations about how many will be able to breakthrough.

Of the current generation, Pearce has the best hope having played regular competitive football at Championship, League's 1 & 2 with 3 different sides. Everyone likes to talk a good game about James Henry, but ultimately he may not make it at this club. Scott Golborune, IMHO hasn't come on quick enough as perhaps I expected. For a player who was considered to better than Nicky Shorey at his age, his highlights at RFC are probably a loan spell at Wycombe where he done pretty well. From what Millwall mates have said, Karacan is a class act in the making but maybe his time is still to come.

What will be interesting over the next 18 month period is how many of the foreign kids make the breakthrough. We're constantly told the English players technically aern't good enough or hungrier, and RFC have taken on it's fair share of Academy kids over the past 2 years (3 South Korean players, Victor Illguson & Gyfi Sigurdsson, Oliver Bozanic, Mikael Andersen, Radioslav Vasilev).

[topfuller]

You need to look deeper than you are. In the UK in youth football at 11yo the boys are forced to move from 5 / 6 / 7 a side to 11 a side football with full side goals. This means that the biggest most powerful kids are the most successful. If you’re big and scoring you will do well. I cant count the number of goals I have seen scored from the halfway line from some strong kid against a small keeper (you need to have kids to realise the height and power differences that can happen in a single year).

So skill pace, passing ability etc just don’t matter, the sooner we go back to smaller pitches, smaller goals the better.

We are creating big players with no skills. The sooner we go back to small goals and small pitches the sooner we will start producing small technically adept players for the future.
Just look at the dutch ...

[Royalee]

You need to look deeper than you are. In the UK in youth football at 11yo the boys are forced to move from 5 / 6 / 7 a side to 11 a side football with full side goals. This means that the biggest most powerful kids are the most successful. If you’re big and scoring you will do well. I cant count the number of goals I have seen scored from the halfway line from some strong kid against a small keeper (you need to have kids to realise the height and power differences that can happen in a single year).

So skill pace, passing ability etc just don’t matter, the sooner we go back to smaller pitches, smaller goals the better.

We are creating big players with no skills. The sooner we go back to small goals and small pitches the sooner we will start producing small technically adept players for the future.
Just look at the dutch ...

Spot on.

[readingbedding]

You need to look deeper than you are. In the UK in youth football at 11yo the boys are forced to move from 5 / 6 / 7 a side to 11 a side football with full side goals. This means that the biggest most powerful kids are the most successful. If you’re big and scoring you will do well. I cant count the number of goals I have seen scored from the halfway line from some strong kid against a small keeper (you need to have kids to realise the height and power differences that can happen in a single year).

So skill pace, passing ability etc just don’t matter, the sooner we go back to smaller pitches, smaller goals the better.

We are creating big players with no skills. The sooner we go back to small goals and small pitches the sooner we will start producing small technically adept players for the future.
Just look at the dutch ...

How come the Dutch failed to qualify for the 2002 WC then?

[The 17 Bus]

The goals were too big

[andrew1957]

I do expect some of our younger players to make an impact in the Championship.

Given that you assured us all along that we wouldn't even be in the Championship next season, Andrew, I am sure that your latest assertions fill us all with precisely zero confidence.

Police Academy > Reading FC academy.

Yes I agree that I along with about 90% of RFC fans thought we would stay up but you and a few negative posters on hobnob were proved right. I guess that means that only you, AP, Royalee and a few others should be allowed to post anything from now on as obviously you are the only ones who know anything about the club.

I was wrong and we were relegated by three miserly goals. Get over it and look to the future - a little positivity cannot do any harm.

[papereyes]

a little positivity cannot do any harm.

There is, as one should learn at an early age, a subtle difference between 'a little positivity' and 'completely and utterly blinkered to the reality'.

[brendywendy]

[Hoop Blah]

I think the Academy is getting better and we're seeing a better quality of player emerge now than we have done over the last few generations.

However, the overall success is pretty poor, and the fact Dolan is in the paper building it up probably means he's under a bit of pressure to show some return.

I can't believe he's holding Scott Rendell up as an example of how the Academy is a success. He was 'educated' at Aldershot wasn't he? He was only here for a season or two, going out on loan and playing a few games for the youth team and reserves along the way. Hardly a glowing recommendation for all the time and effort that goes into grooming our future stars is it?

We've heard it all before though. It wasn't long ago that Peter Castle was the best prospect the club had seen at his age and Andre Boucaud (another we didn't actually educate) was the next Gazza!

Despite the cost to the club I still think the Academy has a role to play because it keeps the club in the community a bit and gives it some soul.

[cmonurz]

On the argument that goes ‘Coppell and the management know best, they watch them train day in, day out’….

In cricket, there are a surprisingly high number of players with Test averages that are better than their first-class averages – Marcus Trescothick off the top of my head – players are found to ‘rise to the occasion’ of Test cricket. In order to progress, young players need clubs to take a chance on them; so Henry struggled at Norwich? Who’s to say that given a few games in a more familiar environment, at his home town club, something might ‘click’. Or maybe he will progress more playing with players he knows, or in a Reading formation, as oppose to Norwich or Bournemouth?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the likes of Henry and Karacan become first-team regulars now, only that they are given a real chance, 6 or 7 decent sub appearances before Xmas, as an example, see if they do contribute. What’s the harm?

[brendywendy]

On the argument that goes ‘Coppell and the management know best, they watch them train day in, day out’….

In cricket, there are a surprisingly high number of players with Test averages that are better than their first-class averages – Marcus Trescothick off the top of my head – players are found to ‘rise to the occasion’ of Test cricket. In order to progress, young players need clubs to take a chance on them; so Henry struggled at Norwich? Who’s to say that given a few games in a more familiar environment, at his home town club, something might ‘click’. Or maybe he will progress more playing with players he knows, or in a Reading formation, as oppose to Norwich or Bournemouth?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the likes of Henry and Karacan become first-team regulars now, only that they are given a real chance, 6 or 7 decent sub appearances before Xmas, as an example, see if they do contribute. What’s the harm?

sounds about right
if they are as far from the 1st team by xmas as they are now, then what is the point

[cmonurz]

I just hate to see talented young players leave without being given a chance to show what they can do for the club. Henry, Pearce and Karacan have all been fantastic for the reserves in their spells at the club, between their loan deals. The reserves are the reserve first team, so give them a chance, and if they don’t cut it, fair enough.

[papereyes]

I just hate to see talented young players leave without being given a chance to show what they can do for the club. Henry, Pearce and Karacan have all been fantastic for the reserves in their spells at the club, between their loan deals. The reserves are the reserve first team, so give them a chance, and if they don’t cut it, fair enough.

'greed.

It would have been harder to be annoyed at our right wing if Cox or Henry had played a few games rather than sticking with Oster who barely made an impression until it was too late (probably about when he was informed his contract wasn't to be renewed)

[Hoop Blah]

On the argument that goes ‘Coppell and the management know best, they watch them train day in, day out’….

In cricket, there are a surprisingly high number of players with Test averages that are better than their first-class averages – Marcus Trescothick off the top of my head – players are found to ‘rise to the occasion’ of Test cricket. In order to progress, young players need clubs to take a chance on them; so Henry struggled at Norwich? Who’s to say that given a few games in a more familiar environment, at his home town club, something might ‘click’. Or maybe he will progress more playing with players he knows, or in a Reading formation, as oppose to Norwich or Bournemouth?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the likes of Henry and Karacan become first-team regulars now, only that they are given a real chance, 6 or 7 decent sub appearances before Xmas, as an example, see if they do contribute. What’s the harm?

Agreed.

A lot of it is in the timing of the chance. A lot of established players don't click at certain clubs and so there I don't think it's fair to write one of our players off for performances elsewhere, especially when on loan as it can be completely different playing on loan than when your somewhere fulltime. Look at Glenn Little for proof of that.

The players do have to be good enough though, but unless you take a chance to test them out you'll never know for sure. Coppell just doesn't seem to have any faith in our youngsters and so won't take that gamble.

[Archie's penalty]

This discussion is making me more excited about the new season. Would really like to see Henry, Pearce and Karacan get a chance next year. This time excuses stating that we're in the prem won't cut it!