Jimmy Kebe

[papereyes]

Reading fans like pick on someone, usually they are not british and dont have white skin.

Seol>Sonko>Kebe

When he turned shit last season, which seems a valid reason for "picking" on him.

Well, exactly. I know he's had his knockers before, but last season, he went on a run of some truly gash performances. I think part of it was that players knew they could run at him and he'd probably give away something.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Was it racist when the whole ground was proclaiming Sonko for be Superman?

I didn't Ivar getting such high praise and attention, it must be something against white defenders then.

"Sonko is superman" was originally a song based on one headed clearance he made when he leapt horizantally to clear a goal-bound shot - hence the reference to being "like superman". It wasn't just that he was playing well.

Also, people need to learn the difference between racism and prejudice. They are not the same thing. One is conscious, the other is subconscious. Everyone has prejudices, including racial ones. That doesn't equate to being a card-carrying BNP member.

Statements like "can nobody criticise players who are black now?" or insisting that any mention of prejudice is "playing the race card" is just avoiding the question.

There's nothing wrong with criticising black players. I don't think there have been any black players at Reading who've had criticism where they haven't deserved it to a degree. I do think, however, that people are quicker to criticise black players, and that the criticism can be more vitriolic.

[Royal Lady]

I don't agree with that I'm afraid. Oster got far more stick than a lot of our black players have ever had for a start. And many of our black players have been legends in RFC fans' eyes - Gilksey, Stevie Richardson etc.

[PEARCEY]

I dont agree either. Whether black or white the vast majority of Reading fans in my view base their opinion of any given player from their performance on the pitch and not their skin colour. There may be one or two mindless bigots but you get those at every club.

In answer to the original question I thought Kebe was ok against FGR...his crosses were dreadful and he went to ground too easily.
However he combined well with Rosenior and took his goal well. He also has pace to burn and if he improves his crosses could be an asset.

[Ian Royal]

I can't speak for others, but the only reason to not rate a player is because he is rubbish, and I don't just mean not good enough, but truely awful and or lacking in effort.

Thats why I didn't like Seol, because he could have been so much better, but just didn't seen to care or want success, Similar with Brooker. Kebe has come in and looked like a fifth of the player Oster was, and he got slated by many, a little unfairly in my opinion. Skin colour or race has absolutely no connection to players being disliked or not rated. Certainly for me, and I would hope and expect the same to be true for th evast majority of Reading fans.

[SteveRoyal]

So, to summarise:

Kebe > Henry

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Skin colour or race has absolutely no connection to players being disliked or not rated.

The problem is people are taking it as "...Reading fans moan about players because they are black..." Of course that statement is a load of crap.

It's not about players being liked or disliked, or even about players getting stick or not. It's about people having subtly less tolerance of hints of failings if they have a gut feeling that certain kinds of player will have those failings. It will lead to a quicker negative judgement about that player.

Certainly for me, and I would hope and expect the same to be true for th evast majority of Reading fans.

It's not that long ago that the southbank thought singing "you've got a town full of pakis" to Bradford fans every time they visited was the height of wit. Society has moved on, and people these days are less likely to go the full Ron Atkinson and refer to players as "...he is what is known in some schools as a oxf*rd lazy thick nigger", but to think the gut feeling beyond such sentiment has been eradicated from society is sadly being somewhat optimistic.


Saying all that though, I don't think the prejudice towards Kebe has been about race. I think it's been about the assumption that he'd be shit as he was a cheap signing when fans were wanting quality to be brought in (I'm sure some were also saying there's no point signing cheap players they'd never heard of from the Czech Republic at the same time too). He was even written off by some as a shit player before he'd made his debut. As it is, the vast majory of fans have only ever seen him play for 32 minutes v Aston Villa, when the entire team was garbage, but that's been enough for most to decide that he's utterly appalling.

[Ian Royal]

Like I said, for me it has nothing to do with it what-so-ever and I hope and think that is the same for the majority.

Look at Gilkes - black and a Reading legend. Yet he spent much of his last couple of seasons at Reading running very fast without much else and then went to a club at the time detested by Reading fans.

Do a poll of our best ever Left wingers and I bet it would be him in the top 3 and quite probably top given Convey's recent seasons and Hunt's detractors.

The two most maligned Reading players in recent history are Oster and Hughes.

I understand what you are saying, but I guess my faith in the intelligence and quality of people is too strong to believe that this can be true. Maybe I'm just naive. I hope not.

[Madstad to Nadderud]

Re:Rev Algenon Stickleback H, 20 Jul 2008 11:59

Also, people need to learn the difference between racism and prejudice. They are not the same thing. One is conscious, the other is subconscious. Everyone has prejudices, including racial ones. That doesn't equate to being a card-carrying BNP member.

This sounds a bit confused to me...there is such a thing as institutional racism whereby in some scenarios some people do not realise that they are being racist. So not all forms of racism are conscious. And really, does everyone have prejudices?!

[Ian Royal]

institutional racism is not unconcious.

It is racism inherant in the system and approved of at most levels from the top down.

[papereyes]

institutional racism is not unconcious.

It is racism inherant in the system and approved of at most levels from the top down.

I don't think it is, or rather I don't think it has to be. It is merely that the system as a whole works so as to be racist.

[URZZZZZZZZ]

Im not sure why people have anything against him?? He played well in his cameo against Everton and had a not so good game against Arsenal away. I think he'll do very well this season.

[Southbank Old Boy]

Im not sure why people have anything against him?? He played well in his cameo against Everton and had a not so good game against Arsenal away. I think he'll do very well this season.

It's for two reasons, firstly because he looked absolute rubbish last season and totally out of his depth in terms of basic technical football ability.

Secondly it probably has something to do with him being the player the club bought in to solve the right midfield problems last year and he was a total failure. That's probably not really his fault to be fair to him though.

As for all the talk of racism, well thats a load of old tripe and there is nothing racist about the abuse players get for being crap. Some get more slack than others for the way they conduct themselves, or because of their previous performances, but I don't think there is any corralation between the stick they get from the majority of fans and the colour of their skin.

There are racist elements in the Reading crowd who will abuse black players when their playing bad, and just as much when their playing well. That is a totally different arguement though.

[PEARCEY]

Im not sure why people have anything against him?? He played well in his cameo against Everton and had a not so good game against Arsenal away. I think he'll do very well this season.

It's for two reasons, firstly because he looked absolute rubbish last season and totally out of his depth in terms of basic technical football ability.

Secondly it probably has something to do with him being the player the club bought in to solve the right midfield problems last year and he was a total failure. That's probably not really his fault to be fair to him though.

As for all the talk of racism, well thats a load of old tripe and there is nothing racist about the abuse players get for being crap. Some get more slack than others for the way they conduct themselves, or because of their previous performances, but I don't think there is any corralation between the stick they get from the majority of fans and the colour of their skin.

There are racist elements in the Reading crowd who will abuse black players when their playing bad, and just as much when their playing well. That is a totally different arguement though.

How many minutes was Kebe on the park last season Southbank? He needs to be given a chance and he hasn't had that yet. He needs to become more able to cope with the physical side of playing in England. If he does that and improves his crossing he will be a worthwhile addition to the squad.

[Southbank Old Boy]

How many minutes was Kebe on the park last season Southbank? He needs to be given a chance and he hasn't had that yet. He needs to become more able to cope with the physical side of playing in England. If he does that and improves his crossing he will be a worthwhile addition to the squad.

He does need to be given a chance yes, but he also needs to earn it. He seems to be doing that so far which is good.

As for the first impression he made last season it doesn't matter how long he was on the pitch he still looked like a fish out of water. I've not seen many professionals in any division look so incapable of controling the football or staying on their feet under no physical pressure at all, let alone with a defender up their arse trying to knock them off it.

He has a lot to prove.

[PEARCEY]

How many minutes was Kebe on the park last season Southbank? He needs to be given a chance and he hasn't had that yet. He needs to become more able to cope with the physical side of playing in England. If he does that and improves his crossing he will be a worthwhile addition to the squad.

He does need to be given a chance yes, but he also needs to earn it. He seems to be doing that so far which is good.

As for the first impression he made last season it doesn't matter how long he was on the pitch he still looked like a fish out of water. I've not seen many professionals in any division look so incapable of controling the football or staying on their feet under no physical pressure at all, let alone with a defender up their arse trying to knock them off it.

He has a lot to prove.

Yes he did look a bit like bambi when he controlled the ball although from the FGR game last week he was fine in that department and linked well with Rosenior. He seemed to have a positive attitude as well so I think he shouldn't be written off.
It will take one good game in the Championship to start changing peoples perceptions of him.

[Madstad to Nadderud]

institutional racism is not unconcious.

It is racism inherant in the system and approved of at most levels from the top down.

I never said that institutional racism is not unconcious as a whole but that some people do not realsie that they are being racist and therefore they are not concious of their actions. Also some people can not approve something if they fail to understand their actions as there is something such as unwitting racism.

[strap]

Definitely MOM today, by a long way IMO[/quote

No. He was very impressive, I agree, but MOTM was little Jem Karacan. He had a blinder and held the midfield together as if he'd been a regular for years.

Bollox. That means he'll be off to The Swime or The Pox for £150k before the windows slams shut. Wonder if we can get him back on loan? Maybe do the same with Simon Cox?

Go on Sir Steve, you know it makes sense.

[cmonurz]

Reading fans like pick on someone, usually they are not british and dont have white skin.

Seol>Sonko>Kebe

add Goater

and Keith Jones. and Tony Rougier.

[loyalroyal4life]

i think he will do well this season and prove doubters wrong.