£23 million In ... £1.4 million Spent

[Royal Rother]

Where have all the "where has all the money gone" posters gone?

[Arch]

Where have all the "where has all the money gone" posters gone?

[Bucks Dave]

Waiting for our next defeat.

[RoyalBlue]

Where have all the "where has all the money gone" posters gone?

Waiting for the full truth to out!

Pointless debating any further when the only information we've got is what JM & his people/accountants want us to have.

My belief remains that eventually JM won't turn out to be quite the hero (or loser in financial terms) that some currently portray him as.

At best supporters have been given information that didn't turn out to be quite what it seemed. i.e.

The massive increase in season ticket prices when we were promoted to the PL would 'allow us to compete effectively at this level' - in what way did it allow us to compete effectively if it wasn't financially?

On relegation, 'Steve Coppell needed to sell players if he wanted to buy' - somewhat different from what appears to have been the case i.e. Steve Coppell needed to sell players in order to help balance the books!

Maybe I misunderstood this. I thought the fact that our overdraft went down by 7m was directly related to the amount of the profit. The HSBC overdraft was presumably the basis on which we were able to function while running a 6+million loss in 05-06. When there was a net profit in 06-07, the overdraft was paid down by about that amount.

In my experience that would be unusual, as banks would rather be lending to profitable companies, but could be...

Interesting that the Directors' Report states that "The Board... recognises that to remain competitive within this league it needs to continue to invest in players..."

Some might say it's a shame Steve Coppell isn't on The Board...

'Invest in players' easy to say but, of course, pretty meaningless, since it could cover a sole 'investment' of £500 in a couple of schoolboy players!

JM also went into print, whilst we were in the PL, saying that he recognised that the club would have to spend serious sums of money "and I mean really serious sums of money" in order to survive in the PL. He also stated that he didn't want to be around when that time came. What a shame that he either, didn't recognise that the time had come (if he did and it was his manager failing to act then he as Chairman of a business had a duty to deal with that), the scale of 'really serious', or didn't stick to the second part of his statement.

Whether or when JM is taking money out of RFC to my mind is far less relevant than the fact that (IMO and that of some others) he seriously failed to walk the very big talk that he and the likes of Howe came out with and didn't put sufficient money where his mouth was. Look back and you will see that it wasn't the supporters who were building up massive (and as it now transpires completely unrealistic expectations). The supporters could barely believe the club had got to where it was. No, it was JM, NH x2 etc who were coming out with established force in the PL, the next Arsenal, stadium expansion etc.etc.

As they say 'You reap what you sow' .

[Stranded]

This debate is turning into a "did man actually land on the moon" debate where despite all the evidence showing where the money is going, some are still waiting for the "real evidence" to arrive.

[Northern Git]

The training ground is a odd one because it makes no sense to build where they are currently located cause of all the buildings that will be left when the army moves.

I assume that you are implying that when (if) the Army vacates the neighbouring barracks then RFC could buy some of the buildings and expand a bit?

That is certainly in the list of possible activity. The nearest building to the Hogwood site is a very large sports hall and astro sprots pitch that the club was interested in adding to the deal from the outset. The sports hall has several changing rooms and space for a cafeteria etc too. The MoD was not willing to sell that just yet, but it is possible that they might be more interested when they know what they want to do with the Arborfield site overall. I wouldn't plan on the Army totally vacating Arborfield though, as the withdrawal from Germany over the next few years will increase the requirement for good locations in the UK.

As I posted elsewhere, the training ground situation is regarded, in the property market, as a bit of a result for JM. The area, on part of which the training ground currently stands, bounded by Park Lane, Hogwood Industrial estate, Sheerlands road,Biggs Lane and the existing buildings at Arborfield Garrison is ear marked for future housing development. If planning permission is granted the value of the training ground area will rocket (when the property market recovers).

You can understand why JM is keeping the freehold to himself and charging RFC a nominal rent to use the area.

Probably why the training ground buildings are all Portacabin type structures.

[Royal Rother]

Where have all the "where has all the money gone" posters gone?

Waiting for the full truth to out! Pointless debating any further when the only information we've got is what JM & his people/accountants want us to have.

Can you not read or do you simply not believe the audited accounts of the company?

Oddly enough I'm speaking to someone at Myers Clark this morning, I'll ask them if they are in the habit of falsifying the accounts of John Madejski's companies.

[Bucks Dave]

Interestingly, the same debate is going on at Watford. Despite parachute money, millions from sales (Ashley Young alone was £9M) and not buying anyone of note, they have now stopped all work on stadium improvement, have shut one stand down completely for safety reasons with little money to get it running again, money that was supposed to be ring fenced for infrastructure has gone and any offers for players that gave them money was accepted (Henderson was gobsmacked to be sold and Boothroyd definitely did not want him to leave).

I'll stay with Reading, thanks!

Oh and as well as men never being on the moon, aliens regularly kidnap humans for experimentation.

[Wycombe Royal]

If people could understand the basic concept long term financial planning then maybe they might understand where John Madejski is coming from.

Unfortunately most football fans only look at the short term in regards to who are we are signing for lots of money now and do not consier any longer term implications.

[brendywendy]

the evidence has been set out clearly enough for season one

season twos accounts will be out soon, but again, on here it has been pieced together somewhat already

and we can make some pretty solid predictions about this year two

as for this:

The massive increase in season ticket prices when we were promoted to the PL would 'allow us to compete effectively at this level' - in what way did it allow us to compete effectively if it wasn't financially?

im not sure how many times it needs to be said

more than doubling our wage bill over two seasons helped us to compete, and resulted in us not losing anyone but sids after the 1st season
we spent money on all sorts of players, 1.5 M for seol, 2 for lankybollox, 2.5 for fae, marek, bikey, kebe, etc etc and kept the majority of our big names this off season
we built a media centre to bring us into line with the other prem clubs
we made proper training ground instead of a muddy field that was a bit of a joke
and the time in the premiere league has probably near enough cleared our debts leaving us in a very solid performance- all this for a hundred quid odd extra on ticket prices over a season
just looking at the ST prices in this league can show you that we were undercharged in the prem, rather than over charged because there are plenty who charge more down here, than we did up there

i reckon that fulfills the criteria of enabling us to compete
it does for me anyway-there are many of you who i hold no hope they will ever believe it no matter how many times its written or by whom.

[largetrousers]

Don't think its been posted yet, but wonder if the chairman has read our concerns on hobnob!

http://www.readingfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10306~1383884,00.html

and another

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/articles/2/4568

[papereyes]

"Since the start of our first Premier League season two years ago we have spent nearly £12m on new players, and another £7.5m in improving the infrastructure around the Club, including £1m apiece on reconstructing the pitch and developing the training ground.

That's what I'd like to hear. We *have* spent the money, but not on players.

Thank you.

[Thaumagurist*]

So that's £20M spent, not the £1.4M that Dodger states.

[papereyes]

So that's £20M spent, not the £1.4M that Dodger states.

Well, no, Spacey. The club say in one of those articles that Hunt, Mooney and Armstrong add up to £1.5 million.

The £20 million is clearly a total over two and a bit years from promotion to the Premiership and up to now.

[brendywendy]

"Since the start of our first Premier League season two years ago we have spent nearly £12m on new players, and another £7.5m in improving the infrastructure around the Club, including £1m apiece on reconstructing the pitch and developing the training ground.

That's what I'd like to hear. We *have* spent the money, but not on players.

Thank you.

no, totally the opposite

we have spent 12.5 M on players
and 7.5 on other stuff

s

[brendywendy]

So that's £20M spent, not the £1.4M that Dodger states.

Well, no, Spacey. The club say in one of those articles that Hunt, Mooney and Armstrong add up to £1.5 million.

The £20 million is clearly a total over two and a bit years from promotion to the Premiership and up to now.

but he did say wed only spent 1.4 million though didnt he?

[West Stand Man]

As I posted elsewhere, the training ground situation is regarded, in the property market, as a bit of a result for JM. The area, on part of which the training ground currently stands, bounded by Park Lane, Hogwood Industrial estate, Sheerlands road,Biggs Lane and the existing buildings at Arborfield Garrison is ear marked for future housing development. If planning permission is granted the value of the training ground area will rocket (when the property market recovers).

You can understand why JM is keeping the freehold to himself and charging RFC a nominal rent to use the area.

Probably why the training ground buildings are all Portacabin type structures.

The transfer of ownership deeds included a profit share element (a bit like a sell on clause in a players contract), that will mean that JM has to share any windfall with the MoD. That particular site is also green belt and so would be much more difficult to build on that the brown field sites on the rest of the garrison. Even building the changing rooms etc was not a simple planning clearance. And, to cap it all, the strong possibility is that the Army will utilise the garrison for a new unit once REME moves out (read my original post re the withdrawal of units from Germany).

It would have been a highly risky activity to but it as a property investment on that basis.

[papereyes]

"Since the start of our first Premier League season two years ago we have spent nearly £12m on new players, and another £7.5m in improving the infrastructure around the Club, including £1m apiece on reconstructing the pitch and developing the training ground.

That's what I'd like to hear. We *have* spent the money, but not on players.

Thank you.

no, totally the opposite

No, not at all, read what I wrote there and some of my other posts, the ones with the theme "I can't see how it adds but if we've spent it on improving our infrastructure, then I don't mind so much".

This one, for example, 2nd September 9:06:

If it makes our infrastructure more secure, then that's fine, but who else would like the club to make this a little bit clearer?

or this one, 1st September, 21:19:

I think, really, that the club have to do better PR as most people will simply see only the headline figures, especially with the Premiership being sold as a land of milk, honey and streets paved with gold. However, if that Premiership spell means that we're better prepared to stay up next time (through a securing of our debts and slow march to self-sufficiency), then I can accept that and I think most fans would. But that's an argument for the club to make, that they possibly have to make and I don't think they have.

Now they have, I have less complaint. Easy.

So thank you, JM. That was pretty much exactly what I was asking for.

[papereyes]

So that's £20M spent, not the £1.4M that Dodger states.

Well, no, Spacey. The club say in one of those articles that Hunt, Mooney and Armstrong add up to £1.5 million.

The £20 million is clearly a total over two and a bit years from promotion to the Premiership and up to now.

but he did say wed only spent 1.4 million though didnt he?

His first post, admittedly, gives no timescale but I'd really wonder how you could not see what he was referring to, given how the three players bought in this summer cost the amount he writes in his thread title.

[Thaumagurist*]

So that's £20M spent, not the £1.4M that Dodger states.

Well, no, Spacey. The club say in one of those articles that Hunt, Mooney and Armstrong add up to £1.5 million.

The £20 million is clearly a total over two and a bit years from promotion to the Premiership and up to now.

But Dodger says we had £23M in. As far as I can see, this season we've only received about £12.5M for Kitson, Sonko and Shorey. Where's the other £11M? I know some people have said it's the parachute payment, but you can't have the spent figure for players only and the income figure for players and additional income. That's just skewing it out of proportion to fit Dodger's agenda against Mr Madejski.