Hard to see any progress for the forseeable future

[readingbedding]

Surely the positive thing at the moment is despite taking a measly point away from home we are sitting in 4th place in the table.

At the moment, we look capable of beating just about anybody at home and are scoring goals for fun - if we can take a modicum of that away with us, the results will pick up away. One win on the road could well see the tide turn for us there, and if it does then we will be right in the mix come the end of the season in my mind.

Indeed, people rambling on about zero progress in September is extremely premature.
Doesn't make any sense, the season is only 5 games old.
If you babble on about it enough, doesn't make it come true.
Fortunately.

We're inconsistent, simple as that.

We're great and we're gash.

Get an away win on Saturday, a few wins in a row, a nice unbeaten run, then 4th position can become 1st or 2nd.

[Norfolk Royal]

Even with Convey and Lita we spent less than other comparable teams in that time.

Also, Kitson, 220K was an integral part of that team and Shorey, Sidwell, Little, Harper, were peanuts.

[readingbedding]

Even with Convey and Lita we spent less than other comparable teams in that time.

Also, Kitson, 220K was an integral part of that team and Shorey, Sidwell, Little, Harper, were peanuts.

So would it be fair to say that these players have improved?
Could it also be fair to say that our academy players and new signings, and indeed all of our squad could improve as well?

[SpaceCruiser]

face it, youve spoken too soon.

And you run the same risk. Watford is a biggie.

I agree. It's gonna be a bit difficult, but if Plymouth (who we beat a few weeks ago) can beat them, then surely we can too?

[Schards#2]

Surely the positive thing at the moment is despite taking a measly point away from home we are sitting in 4th place in the table.

At the moment, we look capable of beating just about anybody at home and are scoring goals for fun - if we can take a modicum of that away with us, the results will pick up away. One win on the road could well see the tide turn for us there, and if it does then we will be right in the mix come the end of the season in my mind.

Indeed, people rambling on about zero progress in September is extremely premature.
Doesn't make any sense, the season is only 5 games old.
If you babble on about it enough, doesn't make it come true.
Fortunately.
We're inconsistent, simple as that.

We're great and we're gash.

Get an away win on Saturday, a few wins in a row, a nice unbeaten run, then 4th position can become 1st or 2nd.

You might want to read the original posting outlining the reasons for my opinions.

It's not that long and there aren't too many long words.

[Stranded]

Probably totally irrelevant but as an mildly intersting aside.

The team that beat Sheff Wed 2-0 in our last CCC season cost us £2.7m in fees, the team last night cost £4.1m

That includes prices of £400k for both Sidwell and Harper (as although undisclosed I believe that's what they cost us - please feel free to correct if wrong)

Also assumption that Rosenior was a £1m though if you want to take his value off due to a straight swap then last night's team was purchased for £3.1m.

[SpaceCruiser]

Schards, I'm very dismissive of your post because of your pathetic misuse of the word "firesale".

Right, that's my final, final post on this thread.

[Royal Rother]

you do not need to spend big on players to have success. This is how we did it before,

Except, dear boy, this bit isn't quite true.

To get out of tier 3, we spent a lot for that level - players like Forster, Cureton and Butler were not cheap for that division, no matter what the chants say. A bit like Wigan did at that time.

To get out of tier 2 last time, we coupled buying young players with a few years to grow (Harper, Sidwell, Shorey first time round) with spending a decent amount for the level, and a big amount for us, on key players (Convey one season, Lita the next).

We've never spent big but we've never really done it completely on the cheap. It would be incredibly naive to suggest that we did.

Sorry, did the post you quote from say we had "done it completely on the cheap" as you suggest?

You say yourself "we've never spent big" which is exactly what the quote said.

I can see that you want to disagree but that was a pretty lame effort to be fair.

[Wycombe Royal]

I really like the look of Noel Hunt but, if you accept he's a replacement for Kitson, it is a fact that he is cheaper and IMHO is inferior to Kitson. Recently Long has been used as Kitson's replacement. He's vastly cheaper and I can find the words to accurately describe how inferior he is.

Pearce looks promising but is factually cheaper than Sonko and certainly inferior to Sonko at his best.

Hunt was not a replacement for Kitson, if anyone is that would be Mooney, but I don't believe they ever wanted to replace Kitson with "like for like".

As for Pearce, I actually feel more confident about our defence with him in it than with Sonko. Sonko has not been at his best since before his injury and I doubt he will ever reach those peaks again, so to say Pearce is not as good as Sonko at his peak is irrelevant, what is relevant is how good Pearce is compared to Sonko at the time he left and I don't think there is much between them.

As for Shane Long, I'm not even going to go there but I guess our opinions on him may be similar. Some time out on loan is needed.

[Stranded]

I really like the look of Noel Hunt but, if you accept he's a replacement for Kitson, it is a fact that he is cheaper and IMHO is inferior to Kitson. Recently Long has been used as Kitson's replacement. He's vastly cheaper and I can find the words to accurately describe how inferior he is.

Pearce looks promising but is factually cheaper than Sonko and certainly inferior to Sonko at his best.

Hunt was not a replacement for Kitson, if anyone is that would be Mooney, but I don't believe they ever wanted to replace Kitson with "like for like".

As for Pearce, I actually feel more confident about our defence with him in it than with Sonko. Sonko has not been at his best since before his injury and I doubt he will ever reach those peaks again, so to say Pearce is not as good as Sonko at his peak is irrelevant, what is relevant is how good Pearce is compared to Sonko at the time he left and I don't think there is much between them.

As for Shane Long, I'm not even going to go there but I guess our opinions on him may be similar. Some time out on loan is needed.

It could also be argued that Pearce has cost us more than Sonko, as the latter came to us on a free transfer from elsewhere but we have spent time and money developing Pearce.

[Wycombe Royal]

I really like the look of Noel Hunt but, if you accept he's a replacement for Kitson, it is a fact that he is cheaper and IMHO is inferior to Kitson. Recently Long has been used as Kitson's replacement. He's vastly cheaper and I can find the words to accurately describe how inferior he is.

Pearce looks promising but is factually cheaper than Sonko and certainly inferior to Sonko at his best.

Hunt was not a replacement for Kitson, if anyone is that would be Mooney, but I don't believe they ever wanted to replace Kitson with "like for like".

As for Pearce, I actually feel more confident about our defence with him in it than with Sonko. Sonko has not been at his best since before his injury and I doubt he will ever reach those peaks again, so to say Pearce is not as good as Sonko at his peak is irrelevant, what is relevant is how good Pearce is compared to Sonko at the time he left and I don't think there is much between them.

As for Shane Long, I'm not even going to go there but I guess our opinions on him may be similar. Some time out on loan is needed.

It could also be argued that Pearce has cost us more than Sonko, as the latter came to us on a free transfer from elsewhere but we have spent time and money developing Pearce.

I think Schards is talking more on Sonko's cost as being the amount we sold him for. But in your theory you excluded the wages and training in the cost of "developing" Sonko which would be far greater than we paid to Pearce.

[Stranded]

True, but do seem to be talking about intrinsic value here ie what was paid out.

[Schards#2]

Schards, I'm very dismissive of your post because of your pathetic misuse of the word "firesale".

Right, that's my final, final post on this thread.

Presumably you missed my learned friend RL's post on this issue.

[papereyes]

Sorry, did the post you quote from say we had "done it completely on the cheap" as you suggest?

You say yourself "we've never spent big" which is exactly what the quote said.

I can see that you want to disagree ...

because what was written needed a bit of clarification. Just a smidgen and it got it. Without being rude or even attacking the club. Nice, balanced, sensible comments about where we were 5-6 years ago and how we got to where we were 2 years ago.

I was hoping you'd go down a different line of attack rather than 'at me'.

The team that beat Sheff Wed 2-0 in our last CCC season cost us £2.7m in fees, the team last night cost £4.1m

That includes prices of £400k for both Sidwell and Harper (as although undisclosed I believe that's what they cost us - please feel free to correct if wrong)

Also assumption that Rosenior was a £1m though if you want to take his value off due to a straight swap then last night's team was purchased for £3.1m.

Really? Wow, that does surprise me.

(I'd assume a swap to be at the value of the player who left - so £1 to 1.5 million would be about right)

[The 17 Bus]

Schards, I'm very dismissive of your post because of your pathetic misuse of the word "firesale".

Right, that's my final, final post on this thread.

Presumably you missed my learned friend RL's post on this issue.

you cannot dismiss an opinion due to the use of one word.

[Stranded]

[
Really? Wow, that does surprise me.

(I'd assume a swap to be at the value of the player who left - so £1 to 1.5 million would be about right)

Yep, here's the breakdown - if I've missed anything or something jumps out as plain wrong then feel free to mention:

Reading V Sheff Wed 2-0 1/11/05

Hahnemann - Free
Murty - £750k
Shorey - £100k
Sidwell - £400k
Sonko - Free
Little - Free
Kitson - £150k
Harper - £400k
Ingimarsson - £100k
Convey - 800k
Doyle - £78k

Total = £2.778m

Reading V Sheff Wed 16/9/08 6-0

Hahnemann - Free
Rosenior - £1m
Bikey £1m
Pearce - Free
Armstrong £600k
Kebe - £400k
Harper £400k
Karacan - Free
S.Hunt - Free
Doyle - £78k
N.Hunt - £600k

Total = £4.078m

Probably to be more accurate I should put Shorey down as £25k as we hadn't paid the add-on's but it makes little difference to the total.

[Royal Rother]

Sorry, did the post you quote from say we had "done it completely on the cheap" as you suggest?

You say yourself "we've never spent big" which is exactly what the quote said.

I can see that you want to disagree ...

because what was written needed a bit of clarification. Just a smidgen and it got it. Without being rude or even attacking the club. Nice, balanced, sensible comments about where we were 5-6 years ago and how we got to where we were 2 years ago.

I was hoping you'd go down a different line of attack rather than 'at me'.

We didn't spend big to get to the PL, we are not spending big now.

The marked difference this time though is that we also have the fruits of years of investment in the Academy starting to have a distinct impact; so although we are never going to reach 106 this season, there are plenty of reasons to believe we are significantly better placed as a club than we were at the same stage 3 years ago.

[readingbedding]

Surely the positive thing at the moment is despite taking a measly point away from home we are sitting in 4th place in the table.

At the moment, we look capable of beating just about anybody at home and are scoring goals for fun - if we can take a modicum of that away with us, the results will pick up away. One win on the road could well see the tide turn for us there, and if it does then we will be right in the mix come the end of the season in my mind.

Indeed, people rambling on about zero progress in September is extremely premature.
Doesn't make any sense, the season is only 5 games old.
If you babble on about it enough, doesn't make it come true.
Fortunately.
We're inconsistent, simple as that.

We're great and we're gash.

Get an away win on Saturday, a few wins in a row, a nice unbeaten run, then 4th position can become 1st or 2nd.

You might want to read the original posting outlining the reasons for my opinions.

It's not that long and there aren't too many long words.

Think about it like this, I have the opposite opinion of that post.

[The 17 Bus]

The thing is only time will tell, I would like to see an away win on the board, but i think it will soon come, Saturday looks likely, these threads are about opinions, it's a discussion, we do not have to agree.

[readingbedding]

The thing is only time will tell, I would like to see an away win on the board, but i think it will soon come, Saturday looks likely, these threads are about opinions, it's a discussion, we do not have to agree.

I agree.