Rumour - SHunt off

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Victor Meldrew
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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Victor Meldrew » 05 Sep 2008 19:47

Royal Rother
BR2
brendywendy actually i think he has said we are very healthy financially, but that there isnt some mythical pile of cash sloshing around at the club


So we come back to- where's the Sky TV money?

Royal Rother Comparison of Accounts 2007 to 2006 (y/e June)
Income up by £32m.
Less: Costs up by £19m, (of which staff costs account for £16m).
= Overall gain in 2007 over 2006 of £13m.

2006 loss of £6m, 2007 Profit of £7m = £13m better off (year on year), which is reflected in the sum above.

£7m profit effectively used to reduce borrowings.


Income in the above extraction from the Annual accounts of RFC included the Sky TV Money.


All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.
BTW for such a well-run club how come there are these enormous borrowings to be repaid?
I would love to see the breakdown in costs for the club between staff costs for different areas of the operation and relate those to different sections of the club,e.g bar staff and entertainment costs related to income for those areas or football manager and coaches costs compared to playing staff.
These are all broadly rhetorical questions where nobody but the chairman and board have the answers but to see a full breakdown of income/expenditure ratios would be very interesting.

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Ian Royal
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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Ian Royal » 06 Sep 2008 00:32

Well when the accounts come out someone can attempt to answer that question can't they.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by leon » 06 Sep 2008 00:47

i bet it's all been spunked on rent boys - figuratively speaking of course

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Arch » 06 Sep 2008 01:23

Victor Meldrew All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.

How will the sales of Kitson (July 08) and Shorey (August 08) affect the figures for y/e June 08? TV money will have risen somewhat, as you point out, but wages will have risen significantly with a number of new contracts penned that appear to have gone significantly what we ever paid anyone before (Hunt, Doyle, Sonko, for example). Add to that more spent on transfers than ever before and improvements to facilities, and you can begin to see that the balance sheet is likely to be quite similar to 06-07. Perhaps we'll find that the chairman was greedy enough to have some of his long standing loan repaid.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by John 3:16 » 06 Sep 2008 08:54

Arch
Victor Meldrew All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.

How will the sales of Kitson (July 08) and Shorey (August 08) affect the figures for y/e June 08? TV money will have risen somewhat, as you point out, but wages will have risen significantly with a number of new contracts penned that appear to have gone significantly what we ever paid anyone before (Hunt, Doyle, Sonko, for example). Add to that more spent on transfers than ever before and improvements to facilities, and you can begin to see that the balance sheet is likely to be quite similar to 06-07. Perhaps we'll find that the chairman was greedy enough to have some of his long standing loan repaid.

They won't, but I think what Victor is getting at is that together with whatever we made y/e June 2008, PLUS the influx of cash over the last couple of weeks from the sales of Kitson, Sonko and Shorey, we SHOULD be in a very comfortable state, cash wise, so to speak.


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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Sep 2008 12:04

Arch
Victor Meldrew All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.

How will the sales of Kitson (July 08) and Shorey (August 08) affect the figures for y/e June 08? TV money will have risen somewhat, as you point out, but wages will have risen significantly with a number of new contracts penned that appear to have gone significantly what we ever paid anyone before (Hunt, Doyle, Sonko, for example). Add to that more spent on transfers than ever before and improvements to facilities, and you can begin to see that the balance sheet is likely to be quite similar to 06-07. Perhaps we'll find that the chairman was greedy enough to have some of his long standing loan repaid.


No problem with the chairman having loans repaid.
I thought that the Kitson and Shorey transfers were earlier-it all seems so long ago already that we started cashing in on our assets.
One small point-"improvement to facilities"?
The towel in the Gents is still all used up well before kick-off and disgustingly wet,the booze and food are still outrageously expensive,car parking within a mile of the ground is dearer than going to the pictures and the shop is still so cramped that a claustrophobic might have a fit.
In the chairman's message to us plebs on BBC radio Berks the other week he kinda mumbled about ground improvements but if anybody could tell me what they actually are I would appreciate it.

As mentioned earlier I would love to see a full breakdown of details leading to the official accounts such as how much somebody like Dillon or our so-called defensive coach (6 goals shipped in the past 2 league games after a number of Premiership embarassments)earn or indeed board advisers in Howe and Hammond.
Regrettably being a private limited company we have no rights to question any of these matters despite contributing significantly to the income of the company albeit less so this season through our Skysports payments which go predominantly to Premiership clubs.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by IMAMATEOFJOVSKY » 06 Sep 2008 12:10

A good article in the Irish Press regarding Hunt- it sdesnt actually say who is writng it - but the clues are there was at Man Utd, thought they were going to sign for Tettenham and ended up at Villa -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You'd like to believe that Stephen Hunt is a good lad who, just momentarily, lost the plot this week. You'd like to hope that, after mature reflection, he realised how the gist of his argument against Reading FC could actually become a mission statement for those who believe that professional football desperately needs a reality check.

I found Stephen's argument that Reading could have helped him out a little "to benefit my career" by facilitating a move to Everton simply breathtaking. Maybe it's an age thing, but when I hear a guy on a five-figure weekly salary say "it would have been nice to be rewarded,'' I'm inclined to ask exactly what planet he's been living on.

I like Hunt as a player. He looks honest and doesn't shirk a tackle. And I know full well how frustrating it can be when you think you're on the brink of a big transfer move only to find yourself then sitting next to a silent telephone.

It happened me almost 20 years ago when Alex Ferguson began to make it clear that I had no future at Manchester United. I didn't want to leave Old Trafford but my spirits lifted when Terry Venables made a move to bring me to Tottenham.

I remember getting a train down to London to meet him. I had no agent and no financial adviser. It was just me and a few key figures in my head. As it happened, our priorities proved a little different.

Spurs had just signed Paul Gascoigne and there wasn't a whole lot left in the pot. I was 29 and looking for security.

"The money's fine," I said. "I just need a house as well."

"No problem, we'll get you a nice place to rent," said Terry.

"Em, that's not really what I mean," I murmured.

"Sorry?"

"I was kind of hoping you might throw a house into the deal."

Venables looked at me as if I'd dribble running down my chin. And he assured me that Spurs weren't in the business of throwing in London real estate as a transfer bonus. Not long after that, I signed for Aston Villa, even though they didn't put me on the property ladder in Birmingham either.

It all seems so quaint and innocent when I recall it now. I look at the strange machinations that brought Robinho to Manchester City this week on a salary four times what he was getting at Real Madrid. I look at Dimitar Berbatov essentially sulking his way into a dream move to Manchester United.

And I half understand why a guy like Stephen Hunt might lose a sense of perspective.

It's just that nothing he said can possibly have made sense to a Reading supporter. This, I believe, is a symptom of living in the bubble world. It changes people. I've seen it happen the best of guys. Players are becoming alienated from reality, never mind from the supporters who buy replica shirts or pay for season tickets. They're living in a cocoon.

I detected a very significant difference in the attitudes of Hunt and Kevin Doyle this week. Hearing both of them on radio, Doyle was much more philosophical. He, too, looked set to leave Reading, with both Aston Villa and Spurs, reputedly, interested.

But he seemed awake to the idea that he had been part of a side relegated from the Premier League too. And that, as such, maybe he had some responsibility to try to get them back up now.

Very little of what Hunt said could possibly make sense to a supporter. You think of what Reading have invested in his career. Does none of that count for anything? Surely the argument should have been the other way round. What do you owe the club that pays your wages?

Players are earning absolute fortunes today. Some of them get in one week what supporters earn in a year. So you're in a team that doesn't perform and ends up getting relegated. And you're "disappointed" that the club doesn't then prioritise your personal ambitions?

Then again, what can we expect when Sepp Blatter talks about Ronaldo and 'slavery' in the same sentence? The game is in a mess because of the people wielding power in it. People like Blatter, bored billionaires and agents. 'Percentage' is the magic word for too many.

I know people could throw plenty of dirt in my direction, given some of the more notorious episodes of my career. And that's fair enough. But I just feel that money is driving a wedge between players and the public now.

I look at today's footballers, heads down, ipods on, everything about them screaming 'I don't want to know!' It's a shield. They don't want people coming up to them. They're just getting so distant. That's fair enough if you're getting off the coach before a game -- because it's time for war then.

I went to Villa Park last year and noticed there's a gate now blocking people getting near the team bus. So kids have to reach through railings to get an autograph. Something's just not right with the game when you see that.

And that's pretty much the environment that spawns the kind of sentiments expressed by Stephen Hunt this week.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Hampshire Royal » 06 Sep 2008 13:48

That really is a well written piece. If it really was written by Paul McGrath, and not ghost written, then I've got to say that I am surprised at how well he can write!!

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Sep 2008 15:09

Hampshire Royal That really is a well written piece. If it really was written by Paul McGrath, and not ghost written, then I've got to say that I am surprised at how well he can write!!


Somehow I find it hard to think of Mc Grath saying "prioritise personal ambition" but, regardless, I agree that it is a well written piece and further agree that Hunty should read it.


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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by OLLIE KEARNS » 06 Sep 2008 16:55

Arch
Victor Meldrew All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.

How will the sales of Kitson (July 08) and Shorey (August 08) affect the figures for y/e June 08? TV money will have risen somewhat, as you point out, but wages will have risen significantly with a number of new contracts penned that appear to have gone significantly what we ever paid anyone before (Hunt, Doyle, Sonko, for example). Add to that more spent on transfers than ever before and improvements to facilities, and you can begin to see that the balance sheet is likely to be quite similar to 06-07. Perhaps we'll find that the chairman was greedy enough to have some of his long standing loan repaid.


Lending money to someone and expecting them to pay it back is greedy ??? I'm sure that "debt being repaid" refers to repaying Mt Mad some of what he has lent the club but that is a good thing. In the short term it reduces the club's annual interest burden from the outstanding loans (no doubt you think him greedy for wanting interest on his loan :) but more importantly it reduces the amount of money that a potential investor would need to buy the club.
If Mr Mad lent £40m and the clubs has assets worth say £50m (ground etc) then an investor would need £90m to get the ball rolling. If we repay the £40m then that reduces the requirement to £50m.
The club is run on a very solid and professional financial basis which has to be a good thing in the long run. The days of running clubs at a massive lost can't last forever.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by West Stand Man » 07 Sep 2008 09:56

Wow, I'd never thought of that. I am on the phone today to the greedy bastards that lent me the money to buy my house and car and demand that they stop asking me to repay the loans. Simple really isn't it?
Last edited by West Stand Man on 08 Sep 2008 08:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by Arch » 07 Sep 2008 18:37

OLLIE KEARNS
Arch
Victor Meldrew All well and good RR but what about y/e June 2008?
Presumably income will have risen again with even more Sky money for that year and presumably staff costs will not have risen by much so with Kitson's sale and ? Shorey's I would expect a significant increase in profit.

How will the sales of Kitson (July 08) and Shorey (August 08) affect the figures for y/e June 08? TV money will have risen somewhat, as you point out, but wages will have risen significantly with a number of new contracts penned that appear to have gone significantly what we ever paid anyone before (Hunt, Doyle, Sonko, for example). Add to that more spent on transfers than ever before and improvements to facilities, and you can begin to see that the balance sheet is likely to be quite similar to 06-07. Perhaps we'll find that the chairman was greedy enough to have some of his long standing loan repaid.


Lending money to someone and expecting them to pay it back is greedy ??? I'm sure that "debt being repaid" refers to repaying Mt Mad some of what he has lent the club but that is a good thing. In the short term it reduces the club's annual interest burden from the outstanding loans (no doubt you think him greedy for wanting interest on his loan :) but more importantly it reduces the amount of money that a potential investor would need to buy the club.
If Mr Mad lent £40m and the clubs has assets worth say £50m (ground etc) then an investor would need £90m to get the ball rolling. If we repay the £40m then that reduces the requirement to £50m.
The club is run on a very solid and professional financial basis which has to be a good thing in the long run. The days of running clubs at a massive lost can't last forever.
Do keep up.

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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by TheLawnMowerMan » 08 Sep 2008 00:03

OLLIE KEARNS Lending money to someone and expecting them to pay it back is greedy ??? I'm sure that "debt being repaid" refers to repaying Mt Mad some of what he has lent the club but that is a good thing. In the short term it reduces the club's annual interest burden from the outstanding loans (no doubt you think him greedy for wanting interest on his loan :) but more importantly it reduces the amount of money that a potential investor would need to buy the club.
If Mr Mad lent £40m and the clubs has assets worth say £50m (ground etc) then an investor would need £90m to get the ball rolling. If we repay the £40m then that reduces the requirement to £50m.
The club is run on a very solid and professional financial basis which has to be a good thing in the long run. The days of running clubs at a massive lost can't last forever.

:roll:
If you ever want to get involved in finance can you give me a call (so I can rip you off)?
Do you really think that paying off a debt reduces the value of an asset?

The club will still be worth the same, regardless of it paying off it's debts with the cash assets it has.


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Re: Rumour - Hunt

by West Stand Man » 08 Sep 2008 09:26

TheLawnMowerMan
OLLIE KEARNS Lending money to someone and expecting them to pay it back is greedy ??? I'm sure that "debt being repaid" refers to repaying Mt Mad some of what he has lent the club but that is a good thing. In the short term it reduces the club's annual interest burden from the outstanding loans (no doubt you think him greedy for wanting interest on his loan :) but more importantly it reduces the amount of money that a potential investor would need to buy the club.
If Mr Mad lent £40m and the clubs has assets worth say £50m (ground etc) then an investor would need £90m to get the ball rolling. If we repay the £40m then that reduces the requirement to £50m.
The club is run on a very solid and professional financial basis which has to be a good thing in the long run. The days of running clubs at a massive lost can't last forever.

:roll:
If you ever want to get involved in finance can you give me a call (so I can rip you off)?
Do you really think that paying off a debt reduces the value of an asset?

The club will still be worth the same, regardless of it paying off it's debts with the cash assets it has.


It is, of course, never quite as simple as either of you imply, however, The Lawn Mower Man is quite right in suggesting that paying off a loan doesn't reduce the value of an asset (in resale terms), but it could do in some specific circumstances (where the loan value was significant in terms of the asset value).

To help explain, look at the purchase of a house with a loan attached. Let's assume the house is worth 100k when you buy it, and you borrow 75k of that.


In a 'normal' market you might expect that the house appreciates over the period.

Looking at the house first, lets assume it has increased in value to 110k and you still owe 70k of the loan value at the time you come to sell. If you choose to pay off the loan before selling (not the usual way to do it I know - but bear with me!) then the value of the house is still 110k and that is what a buyer needs to find. If, however, you choose to sell the house with the loan still in place it is still going to cost the buyer 110k as that is the full value of the complete asset; ergo paying off the loan doesn't reduce the resale value of the asset. This is where RFC sits at the moment (when compared to the price JM paid to acquire it).

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Hunt off in Jan

by Geekins » 26 Sep 2008 09:16

Mirror said today that if someone cae in for Stephen Hunt, then he would have to let him go. :cry:

Although it could mean, Kebe on the left and Henry on the right.

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Re: Hunt off in Jan

by Uke » 26 Sep 2008 09:37

Geekins Mirror said today that if someone cae in for Stephen Hunt, then he would have to let him go. :cry:

Although it could mean, Kebe on the left and Henry on the right.


You talk and listen to your mirror? :shock:

Do you know many vertically challenged people?

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Re: Hunt off in Jan

by Platypuss » 26 Sep 2008 10:41

I didn't realise there was a Reading fan alive who wasn't already aware of Hunt's £5M release clause.

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Re: Rumour - SHunt off

by IMAMATEOFJOVSKY » 26 Sep 2008 12:55

Hunt doesnt want to play for us after all we have done to rescue him from Bradford - stick him in the reserves until January and lets start blooding a new midfield with Henry , Kebbe, Marek and Karacan

Yes Hunt has done well for us but we have done well for him and paid him well at the same time

Coppell has said that he only wants players that want to play for the team - so now prove it !

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Re: Rumour - SHunt off

by Bill Oddie's Beard » 26 Sep 2008 13:04

IMAMATEOFJOVSKY Hunt doesnt want to play for us after all we have done to rescue him from Bradford - stick him in the reserves until January and lets start blooding a new midfield with Henry , Kebbe, Marek and Karacan

Yes Hunt has done well for us but we have done well for him and paid him well at the same time

Coppell has said that he only wants players that want to play for the team - so now prove it !


He might want to leave, but he's still giving 100%. Given the amount of goals he's created from set pieces this season it would be madness to drop him.

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Re: Rumour - SHunt off

by Uke » 26 Sep 2008 13:04

IMAMATEOFJOVSKY Yes Hunt has done well for us but we have done well for him and paid him well at the same time


So its quits then!

I presume you feel you owe your employer at work since after all he does pay you a wage

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