Hard to see any progress for the forseeable future

[juanpablo]

100 pound bet with schards that Reading reach the playoffs.....






feel free to shoot the laughter back at me tuesday night lol, im going and im still worried but then losing to them doesant mean we cant make the playoffs. Like you say January could be a major factor for our bet, shame your not paddy power.......

[seahawk10]

100 pound bet with schards that Reading reach the playoffs.....






feel free to shoot the laughter back at me tuesday night lol, im going and im still worried but then losing to them doesant mean we cant make the playoffs. Like you say January could be a major factor for our bet, shame your not paddy power.......

What if we win an automatic promotion spot. Does he still have to pay?

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Without wishing to be a party pooper, a few realities must be pointed out in this argument.

Even with our new found free-scoring home form, we are 8 points off top spot, and 9 off 24th. That's pretty mediocre, (although 5 points off a promo spot v 9 off a relegation place suggests an above average standing). .

Thats a very liberal use of stats, Strap - and you are usually so good at this.
50% of the Championship are 'above average' (whatever measure you use). The only measure I can think of where Reading may not be 'above average' is 'Away Wins', but to use that as an asessment of the teams overall performance when so many other stats are available to you, is a bit like looking for a stat to prove your prior hypothesis.

We are further away from bottom spot than 21 teams. I include Nottingham Forest, the bottom club, and Preston, who have the same number of points as us, but are behind us on other performance indicators, in particular goal difference. (thats a healthy 91% of the other teams in this league). Only 2 teams (less than 10%) are closer to top spot. That is nowhere near mediocre - Reading are quite comfortably in the top quartile. Whatsmore, your statistics are skewed as the performance of the top team (7 wins, 1 draw) is not mirrored by the bottom team (who if they had mirrored this would only have 1 point).

You say that we have only played 'nobody of note' at home, but 2 of the 4 teams we have played are still in the top half of the table, depite losing 12.5% of their games so far to us. One of these teams (25% ) were in a playoff position when we played them. The profile of teams (in league position terms) we have experienced at home so far, is as near to exactly the profile of teams we will have played when the season finishes. The teams we have played at home are as 'average' as you can get (but, crucially, not 'below average'). For every Wolves and Birmingham we havent played, there is also a Forest and Barnsley (using the bottom two clubs as an example).

I would also dispute two other implications from your post.
1. Reading are mediocre but we have played 'no-one of note at home' yet. We have already played 4/23 (17%) of our home games against teams which you deem inferior to Reading (as you expect Reading to win these games). What percentage of home games we havent played yet would you also classify as 'Must Wins', and if that percentage is above 50% (which it would be if you took all the teams below Sheffield Wednesday) why then shouldnt we be 'above average' merely from your disdain for the other teams in this league?
2. Im slightly perturbed by the implication that we can only prove ourselves by winning away at the top club. Taking the statistically hardest of our 46 games as an indicator of 'not mediocre' - well that just defies all the definitions of statistics.

My summary is: We're third, so there!
My sub summary: Forming statistical hypotheses on 8 games into the series is like shooting arrows at the moon.

[Dr Hfuhruhurr]

Im going to agree / disagree with Schards.

As far as I can see (and its getting foggier with every post).

We are not making progress, because
a) We are haemorraging players.
b) We are not replacing them with worthwhile replacements
c) The Chairman wants to sell and will make as much money from the club until he does
d) We cant win away from home.
e) We dont know what we're doing

This will result in us:
f) finishing mid table
g) Having a dull season.

I agree with (a) and (c). But (a) was necessary
I disagree with (g). The championship is always more fun than the Premiership (which, nowadays is the epitome of dullness, IMHO),
I agree with (b) but not in context. We have dropped a league, we cant be sure of immediate promotion. This equals wage slash. Financial reality. In fact yesterday's squad included Noel Hunt, who I am beginning to really like, Kebe, who will probably fit into this league (yet to see if he's a 'Finidi George', mind) and two academy players (admittedly one as a sub). It worked - we didnt need x millions pounds of talent - it is the Championship after all.
(d) and (f) are debateable, but Im inclined to agree. The squad has that new-havent-really-played-outside-of-berkshire look to it. Referring us to Ipswich last year is now a cliche, but a valid one nonetheless.

But there are two things I strongly disagree with. Firstly, (e) - honestly, we DO know what we're doing; and secondly, this strange implication that has cropped up recently that we are not progressing because we are in a different division to last year. Thats just stating the bleeding obvious isnt it? Thats no argument at all.

I reiterate that we ARE progressing, because it was obvious from last year that we needed to shake things up - and that is exactly what we're doing.

[Schards#2]

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

Madejski - clearly, his heart is not in it to the extent it was previously. He would love to sell out but can't find a buyer. He will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards.

Coppell - if the spirit of the championship had survived, he would definately have been the right man for the job, but it hasn't. The chairman is not fully behind it anymore, many players have left to pursue their own self interest and many still here would like to leave. The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team. Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.

Whilst not being a member of the carpark squad, I applauded their actions as, at the time it was the right thing to do. Had we known that the spirit of the championship side was already totally dead, in hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.

As for Madejski, there are some on here who would happily see us drift downwards whilst improving/maintaining our balance sheet in the belief that the rest of football will meltdown around us and we will emerge as one of the last men standing. They are rather like people who build nuclear bunkers in their back garden. Much as I admire and appreciete what Madejski has done, I don't see how the club can go forward with him at the helm and would now like to see someone new who wants to move things forward.

Can't see either leaving anytime soon so supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller and uninspiring than in recent years

Here's the retrospective for RFC's season 2008/2009, made in the middle of September.I've highlighted some highlights.

We finished mid-table, Coppell didn't want to be here, concrete sales went through the roof as people build Nuclear bunkers.
No spirit, no heart, no desire.
It was dull, uninsipring, certainly in comparison to previous seasons.
Some fans were content with this, waiting for the game itself to implode.
Coppell should have went, his heart was not in this.
Some fans saw the light, way back in the middle of September, they demanded a sea change, they didn't get one, which was a shame.

I think that's about it.

I don't know, depends who you're comparing me to...

How long are these views going to last for?
Next week, next month, or next year?
You've said that Coppell and the Chairman are not going anywhere soon, so you should expect no progression whilst these are here.
I believe that they will be here until the end of the season, that's why I've called it a retrospective.

There's a certain irony to this. I give me opinion as to what I think may happen over the course of the season and give reasons why.

You, after 8 games of a 46 game season, are saying my opinions are wrong. And yet you're the one saying that i'm the one who's already delivered a final verdict on the season in September.

Do you understand why I think your position is just a little idiotic?

[Schards#2]

I'm not having a pop at you at all, I'm just trying to find out the difference between a yo-yo club and a club being relegated, promoted and then relegated.
Can anyone help me?

Firstly, If you read the posts, I don't think we'll be promoted.

Secondly, if we did, it's clear we would not seek to build - Coppell's said as much.

Being a yo-yo club with ambition would be great. Going up against the odds to take the money and be obliterated wouldn't.

If Madejski commits to staying long term and undertakes to reinvest any transfer fees received in January, or he sells to someone who does, we might progress. If he doesn't then, over a 46 game season, the lack of drive at the top of the club may well take its toll.

46 game is the time to judge whether i'm right or not, not 8, particulary when we've be awful in four of those eight.

[Schards#2]

100 pound bet with schards that Reading reach the playoffs.....






feel free to shoot the laughter back at me tuesday night lol, im going and im still worried but then losing to them doesant mean we cant make the playoffs. Like you say January could be a major factor for our bet, shame your not paddy power.......

What if we win an automatic promotion spot. Does he still have to pay?

Absolutely. It's about a top six finish.

Be happy to as well.

[readingbedding]

I'm not having a pop at you at all, I'm just trying to find out the difference between a yo-yo club and a club being relegated, promoted and then relegated.
Can anyone help me?

Firstly, If you read the posts, I don't think we'll be promoted.

Secondly, if we did, it's clear we would not seek to build - Coppell's said as much.

Being a yo-yo club with ambition would be great. Going up against the odds to take the money and be obliterated wouldn't.

If Madejski commits to staying long term and undertakes to reinvest any transfer fees received in January, or he sells to someone who does, we might progress. If he doesn't then, over a 46 game season, the lack of drive at the top of the club may well take its toll.

46 game is the time to judge whether i'm right or not, not 8, particulary when we've be awful in four of those eight.

Do you need a moderator to lock this thread until the end of the season then?

[Avon Royal]

There's some serious goalpost moving going on. The main idea of the original post was that we'd be mid-table at best and watching Reading was going to be very dull. Since then we've won 6-0 and 4-0 and drawn 2-2 away. We're third. Call it what you like, but it's not mid-table and it's not dull.

Completely agree.

I'm all for using internet message boards to vent frustration after a poor performance (as Ipswich was) - it's kind of what they're there for. Being full of hope after a good streak and being racked with despair when things aren't going so well is just part of the whole experience of following Reading.

I'd have a lot more respect for Schards if he came out and said something along the lines of "I'm still concerned, but am pleasently surprised by the team's recent form". Instead of which, he persists with the whole "we're doomed, everything's going to pot" line that reads so oddly in light of recent events.

[Schards#2]

There's some serious goalpost moving going on. The main idea of the original post was that we'd be mid-table at best and watching Reading was going to be very dull. Since then we've won 6-0 and 4-0 and drawn 2-2 away. We're third. Call it what you like, but it's not mid-table and it's not dull.

Completely agree.

I'm all for using internet message boards to vent frustration after a poor performance (as Ipswich was) - it's kind of what they're there for. Being full of hope after a good streak and being racked with despair when things aren't going so well is just part of the whole experience of following Reading.

I'd have a lot more respect for Schards if he came out and said something along the lines of "I'm still concerned, but am pleasently surprised by the team's recent form". Instead of which, he persists with the whole "we're doomed, everything's going to pot" line that reads so oddly in light of recent events.

Could you point out where i've said that? I've said we'll drift, not be doomed.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the teams home form but i'm still concerned as:

a) the away form is dreadful
b) we will probably weaken in January whilst rivals will strengthen
c) see the original post on this thread

The concern is about long term issues, these are not effected by one game, or even eight.

[readingbedding]

There's some serious goalpost moving going on. The main idea of the original post was that we'd be mid-table at best and watching Reading was going to be very dull. Since then we've won 6-0 and 4-0 and drawn 2-2 away. We're third. Call it what you like, but it's not mid-table and it's not dull.

Completely agree.

I'm all for using internet message boards to vent frustration after a poor performance (as Ipswich was) - it's kind of what they're there for. Being full of hope after a good streak and being racked with despair when things aren't going so well is just part of the whole experience of following Reading.

I'd have a lot more respect for Schards if he came out and said something along the lines of "I'm still concerned, but am pleasently surprised by the team's recent form". Instead of which, he persists with the whole "we're doomed, everything's going to pot" line that reads so oddly in light of recent events.

The end of the season is the time to comment, LOCK THIS THREAD!

[Schards#2]

There's some serious goalpost moving going on. The main idea of the original post was that we'd be mid-table at best and watching Reading was going to be very dull. Since then we've won 6-0 and 4-0 and drawn 2-2 away. We're third. Call it what you like, but it's not mid-table and it's not dull.

Completely agree.

I'm all for using internet message boards to vent frustration after a poor performance (as Ipswich was) - it's kind of what they're there for. Being full of hope after a good streak and being racked with despair when things aren't going so well is just part of the whole experience of following Reading.

I'd have a lot more respect for Schards if he came out and said something along the lines of "I'm still concerned, but am pleasently surprised by the team's recent form". Instead of which, he persists with the whole "we're doomed, everything's going to pot" line that reads so oddly in light of recent events.

The end of the season is the time to comment, LOCK THIS THREAD!

There's no harm in discussing opinions throughout the season.

It's your habit of stating your opinion on the season as fact, in September, that's a bit silly.

[Archie's penalty]

I like the way Schards has completely ignored Dr. H's very concise post.

[Schards#2]

I like the way Schards has completely ignored Dr. H's very concise post.

Because he seems to agree with most of what I see and only strongly disagrees with point (e) which he appears to have made up.

I think Madejski knows what he's doing, I just don't approve of it.

[Archie's penalty]

To be very pedantic he disagrees with a), c) and g).

[Schards#2]

To be very pedantic he disagrees with a), c) and g).

Eh? He said he agrees with a) and c).

If you only went to home games, you'd think he had a point about g) but we play away too and the season's only 8 games in at the moment.

[readingbedding]

You're lying.

That's exactly what I said about your opinion on the 14th September, and again on the 16th September, and I said that...
No one knows what's going to happen, personally, at the moment you could say we're inconsistent.
If we win, it's because the other team was rubbish, and if we lose it's because we're rubbish.


I can see us going on a decent unbeaten run, that's what most promoted teams do...
I reckon we can, but will we?

The only fact that I have is that the original post is an emotional, frustrated and premature one from a knee-jerker, who likes to judge but on the other hand does not want to be judged.
But there's no harm in discussing comments, on the other hand.
Hmmmmm ok...we are discussing them.

[Schards#2]

You're lying.

That's exactly what I said about your opinion on the 14th September, and again on the 16th September, and I said that...
No one knows what's going to happen, personally, at the moment you could say we're inconsistent.
If we win, it's because the other team was rubbish, and if we lose it's because we're rubbish.


I can see us going on a decent unbeaten run, that's what most promoted teams do...
I reckon we can, but will we?

The only fact that I have is that the original post is an emotional, frustrated and premature one from a knee-jerker, who likes to judge but on the other hand does not want to be judged.
But there's no harm in discussing comments, on the other hand.
Hmmmmm ok...we are discussing them.

You're going to have to point where i've been lying.

[Victor Meldrew]

There's some serious goalpost moving going on. The main idea of the original post was that we'd be mid-table at best and watching Reading was going to be very dull. Since then we've won 6-0 and 4-0 and drawn 2-2 away. We're third. Call it what you like, but it's not mid-table and it's not dull.

Completely agree.

I'm all for using internet message boards to vent frustration after a poor performance (as Ipswich was) - it's kind of what they're there for. Being full of hope after a good streak and being racked with despair when things aren't going so well is just part of the whole experience of following Reading.

I'd have a lot more respect for Schards if he came out and said something along the lines of "I'm still concerned, but am pleasently surprised by the team's recent form". Instead of which, he persists with the whole "we're doomed, everything's going to pot" line that reads so oddly in light of recent events.

I'm still concerned but am pleasantly surprised by the team's form AT HOME.
If we can play at the same tempo away as we do at home then I feel that the play-offs are within reach.

Yesterday it felt strange-there we are cruising to a comfortable home win again but I kept thinking -are we to be victims of our own success?
Our 3 best players at the moment ,Doyle,Bikey and S Hunt (yes,I know but this is his level) have all come close to or expressed a desire to leave.
If they keep performing and we stay up with the leaders what happens in January?
For the past 15 years or so we have not had this worry that most lower division sides have that their best players will continue to be sold but with the willingness of the club to keep on selling (how close we were on deadline day to losing the second of our main strikers )gives me cause for concern about the future ambition of our club.
January IMHO will be when we know the answer.

[Archie's penalty]

To be very pedantic he disagrees with a), c) and g).

Eh? He said he agrees with a) and c).

If you only went to home games, you'd think he had a point about g) but we play away too and the season's only 8 games in at the moment.

Oops. You're quite right.

Still I don't think this season has been dull. Lots to talk about.