Embarrassing City fans

[Schards#2]

Indeed it is, and "where's your caravan" is abuse of players with long hair.

OK, Schards, os what's the link between caravans and long hair?

You'd have to ask the people that sing it but I would suggest it's because of the stereotypical suggestion that a significant percentage of caravan dwellers have long hair.

The inference of throwing a banana at a black player is "you are a monkey".

To suggest they are of equal offence is IMHO incorrect.

[Schards#2]

Indeed it is, and "where's your caravan" is abuse of players with long hair.

Well, you asked for evidence. Took you all of 3 minutes to provide it for me when you continued this line of thought.

Where is it then?

[rabidbee]

Indeed it is, and "where's your caravan" is abuse of players with long hair.

OK, Schards, os what's the link between caravans and long hair?

You'd have to ask the people that sing it but I would suggest it's because of the stereotypical suggestion that a significant percentage of caravan dwellers have long hair.

The inference of throwing a banana at a black player is "you are a monkey".

To suggest they are of equal offence is IMHO incorrect.

So, you don't think that the "caravan" chants were related to the "gypo" chants also aimed at Hunty, then?

[Schards#2]

You'd have to ask the people chanting them.

If they were, they would still not be in the same league as throwing a banana at a black player.

[rabidbee]

You'd have to ask the people chanting them.

If they were, they would still not be in the same league as throwing a banana at a black player.

Gypsies are fairer game?

[ZacNaloen]

Indeed it is, and "where's your caravan" is abuse of players with long hair.

Well, you asked for evidence. Took you all of 3 minutes to provide it for me when you continued this line of thought.

Where is it then?

Are you a moron?

The Caravan chants are racist, you in your tacit acceptance of them are either saying "This isn't racist" or you are saying "It's not racist enough". I'm not sure which one is worse.

The inference of throwing a banana at a black player is "you are a monkey".

To suggest they are of equal offence is IMHO incorrect.

You could try to move the goal posts, but the level of insult sustained from a specific chant is a completely different debate and if had will not be a pretty one.

Just so you are are aware, the campaign is Kick racism out of football. Not kick racism against black people out of football. One just happens to be more high profile than the rest. No racism is acceptable and your tacit acceptance of the caravan chant is oxf*rd disgusting.

[ZacNaloen]

Rabidbee, is the first time we've been on the same page in a debate?

[rabidbee]

Rabidbee, is the first time we've been on the same page in a debate?

Yeah.

So, religion...

[ZacNaloen]

Rabidbee, is the first time we've been on the same page in a debate?

Yeah.

So, religion...

I don't think the team board could handle it...

[Victor Meldrew]

If Hunty actually was a "gypo or pikey" or whatever names he was being called, you might have a point about the racial slant - but he's not and our own vans sing the very same to players with longish hair. Get a grip.

Err... no. Just no.

No matter who says it, or who it is said to it is still a racist term and you better not be trying to justify people using it.

Having grown up in a completely different era I find absolute definitions of racism difficult to understand.
If Bikey was called an African (which he is) is that acceptable?
If Hunt is referred to as a gypsy( From which stock he may well have come) is that unacceptable?
If Hunt is called an effing little cnut (which to Chelsea fans he is) is that acceptable?
If Spurs fans (many of whom are Jewish ) are refered to as Yiddos is that acceptable?
If Brighton fans are referred to as woofters (Brighton has a large gay community) is that acceptable?

We do seem rather lost as a society in the badness stakes-is bad language now regarded as less of an insult than racism?
I don't very often see signs about kicking bad language out of football and when Rooney goes off on one to a referee presumably that is o.k even though it is clearly questioning authority but if he said anything deemed as racial abuse to someone like Uriah Rennie I suspect that he would be setenced to the gallows.

As I see it there has been fantastic improvement in the fans' verbal attacks on black players to the extent that most of us would feel very uncomfortable if we now heard any of the old stuff and thank goodness for that but when we go to football matches as would be the case at most gatherings nowadays other than in a church we hear a level of bad language that is far worse than in days gone by and women are no longer immune from joining in.
That is how society now is so if you are going to worry about Hunt being called a gypo because he is a long-haired scruffbag are you going to worry about much greater vitriole that comes the way of him and many other players?

BTW Reading fans (remember the song about Seoul?) are as bad as Bristol and the rest.

[Schards#2]

Zac, i'm not a moron but I won't even bother asking whether you are as it's so clearly demonstrated by your offensive and ignorant last post.

People sing "where's your caravan" to people with long hair. That's a fact.

You can argue that that may equate to saying some looks like a gypsy. Is saying someone looks like a gypsy is offensive? Surely that would only be the case if you felt gypsies were in some way inferior. Is that what you are saying? If so that's pretty disgusting IMHO.

As for moving the goalposts, where's that then? I have consistently argued just two things - that the song is aimed at hair and that it's not as offensive as throwing bananas at black people.

The first point is addressed above. On the second point. if we accept your premise, the song is saying "you are a gypsy" the throwing bananas is saying "you are a monkey". Therefore, to say that they are equal is to say that calling someone a gypsy is as offensive as calling someone a monkey. Again, that seems an extremely racist opinion to hold.

I find your ignorant suggestions of racism on my part offensive in the extreme though doubt you are intelligent enough to understand why given you've missed every point by a country mile. I would respectfuly suggest you think to the best of your limited ability before posting any further ignorant, vile, offensive comments.

[rabidbee]

well done. You almost got the point, and then totally missed it again. It is not that we find being likened to gypsies offensive; it is clear that the implication of the abuse is that being called a gypsie is itself perjorative, and it is to that that we object. I get plenty of banter about the length of my hair, which I find amusing; if somebody called me a gypo because of my hair, I would be offended not because I am a gypsie, nor because I find it insulting to be considered a gypsie, but because it *is* a term of racist abuse, and I would be offended by the idea that being a gypsie is negative.

[ZacNaloen]

I can't believe you are now arguing that some racism is more acceptable than others.

[SCIAG]

Zac, i'm not a moron but I won't even bother asking whether you are as it's so clearly demonstrated by your offensive and ignorant last post.

People sing "where's your caravan" to people with long hair. That's a fact.

You can argue that that may equate to saying some looks like a gypsy. Is saying someone looks like a gypsy is offensive? Surely that would only be the case if you felt gypsies were in some way inferior. Is that what you are saying? If so that's pretty disgusting IMHO.

As for moving the goalposts, where's that then? I have consistently argued just two things - that the song is aimed at hair and that it's not as offensive as throwing bananas at black people.

The first point is addressed above. On the second point. if we accept your premise, the song is saying "you are a gypsy" the throwing bananas is saying "you are a monkey". Therefore, to say that they are equal is to say that calling someone a gypsy is as offensive as calling someone a monkey. Again, that seems an extremely racist opinion to hold.

So are you saying that being called a monkey is an insult?

Speciesist.

[ZacNaloen]

You know what Schards you can be upset with me all you want, but you seriously need to look at what you've written here and think about it closely. You've embarrassed yourself here, you need to take on board what has been said by RabidBee and myself and think seriously about what your position really is here. You've revealed a bit more of yourself than you probably meant to and not in a positive way.

You want to know why I insulted you in that post?

Because I find your position here to be vile and offensive in the extreme.

The tacit suggestion in your posts that some racism is more acceptable than others is frankly worrying.

[Avon Royal]

Therefore, to say that they are equal is to say that calling someone a gypsy is as offensive as calling someone a monkey. Again, that seems an extremely racist opinion to hold.

Schards,

If someone called Freddy Eastwood a "monkey" or a "gypo", do you seriously think that he would me more offended by the former?

It's all about context and the person being abused.

[BobKnows]

Therefore, to say that they are equal is to say that calling someone a gypsy is as offensive as calling someone a monkey. Again, that seems an extremely racist opinion to hold.

Schards,

If someone called Freddy Eastwood a "monkey" or a "gypo", do you seriously think that he would me more offended by the former?

It's all about context and the person being abused.

Indeed. I think you need to step down gracefully from this one Shards, if that is possible.

[Ian Royal]

Zac, i'm not a moron but I won't even bother asking whether you are as it's so clearly demonstrated by your offensive and ignorant last post.

People sing "where's your caravan" to people with long hair. That's a fact.

You can argue that that may equate to saying some looks like a gypsy. Is saying someone looks like a gypsy is offensive? Surely that would only be the case if you felt gypsies were in some way inferior. Is that what you are saying? If so that's pretty disgusting IMHO.

As for moving the goalposts, where's that then? I have consistently argued just two things - that the song is aimed at hair and that it's not as offensive as throwing bananas at black people.

The first point is addressed above. On the second point. if we accept your premise, the song is saying "you are a gypsy" the throwing bananas is saying "you are a monkey". Therefore, to say that they are equal is to say that calling someone a gypsy is as offensive as calling someone a monkey. Again, that seems an extremely racist opinion to hold.

I find your ignorant suggestions of racism on my part offensive in the extreme though doubt you are intelligent enough to understand why given you've missed every point by a country mile. I would respectfuly suggest you think to the best of your limited ability before posting any further ignorant, vile, offensive comments.

Schards you're the one who seems to be missing the point by a country mile.

No one here is trying to catgorise and evaluate different levels of racism to find out which is the worst. The point is they are all racist so degrees of severity don't come into it.

The simple arguement is that "gypo" is a racist term with negative connotations about a persecuted minority. Throwing banana skins at a black person suggests they are monkeys and in theory therefore sub human. Another action which has negative connotations and relates to a persecuted (not so) minority.

You seem to think calling someone a gypo soley because they have long hair makes it alright. It doesn't.

It's this total lack of understanding which is upsetting several people. You can't ignore some racism just because the race in question haven't had massive civil rights movements and faced centuries of high profile repression and abuse.

[Royalshow]

Ian you cannot use a words connotations as a marker of whether an insult in racist or not.If racism is solely down to a persons interpretation then we really are in trouble.

In Lord of the Rings the word 'black' is associated with darkness and evil.Thats not racist though.

[rabidbee]

It's this total lack of understanding which is upsetting several people. You can't ignore some racism just because the race in question haven't had massive civil rights movements and faced centuries of high profile repression and abuse.

<Cough> Hitler! <cough>