Embarrassing City fans

[ZacNaloen]

Ian you cannot use a words connotations as a marker of whether an insult in racist or not.If racism is solely down to a persons interpretation then we really are in trouble.

Good thing that's not what Ian Royal was saying then isn't it?

[Ian Royal]

Ian you cannot use a words connotations as a marker of whether an insult in racist or not.If racism is solely down to a persons interpretation then we really are in trouble.

In Lord of the Rings the word 'black' is associated with darkness and evil.Thats not racist though.

No, because darkness and evil has nothing to do with race.

Maybe I'm using the wrong word, but I'm sure the intended meaning is pretty obvious.

Gypo is a term meant as an insult based on the theory Gypsies are inferior people. There appears to be a perception that gypsies have long hair and travel in caravans, so people with long hair are called gypos as an insult*. That's pretty clearly racism regardless of whether the person called a gypo is a gypsy. The word is used as an insult thus infering that there is something wrong with gypsies, or taht they are lesser people. It might not be racist abuse of the subject, however it certainly is racist.

* Presumably also associated with Irish travellers who also live in caravans and I believe often have long hair.

Hope that makes sense. At least to those I expect it to.

[Ian Royal]

It's this total lack of understanding which is upsetting several people. You can't ignore some racism just because the race in question haven't had massive civil rights movements and faced centuries of high profile repression and abuse.

<Cough> Hitler! <cough>

The Jews got the high profile bit and it lasted less than a decade. I'm very much aware of that persecution.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Ian you cannot use a words connotations as a marker of whether an insult in racist or not.If racism is solely down to a persons interpretation then we really are in trouble.

In Lord of the Rings the word 'black' is associated with darkness and evil.Thats not racist though.

No, because darkness and evil has nothing to do with race.

Maybe I'm using the wrong word, but I'm sure the intended meaning is pretty obvious.

Gypo is a term meant as an insult based on the theory Gypsies are inferior people. .

It depends. Do you think people are mocking a race or a lifestyle choice?

[BobKnows]

The Jews got the high profile bit and it lasted less than a decade. I'm very much aware of that persecution.

Not forgetting (which I'm sure you haven't) the persecution of homosexuals. And don't even start me on homophobia in football

[Ian Royal]

Ian you cannot use a words connotations as a marker of whether an insult in racist or not.If racism is solely down to a persons interpretation then we really are in trouble.

In Lord of the Rings the word 'black' is associated with darkness and evil.Thats not racist though.

No, because darkness and evil has nothing to do with race.

Maybe I'm using the wrong word, but I'm sure the intended meaning is pretty obvious.

Gypo is a term meant as an insult based on the theory Gypsies are inferior people. .

It depends. Do you think people are mocking a race or a lifestyle choice?

good question. I think people are probably just being ignorant. Which is still a problem. Wouldn't "pikey" cover lifestyle choice? As rabidbee says earlier in the thread thats not really about a race. Gypsy certainly is though.

PS Bob, you're absolutely correct. I wasn't forgetting the homos. Have we run out of types of people persecuted by the Nazis yet? No, they went after at least the disabled and the slavs as well iirc.

[rabidbee]

good question. I think people are probably just being ignorant. Which is still a problem. Wouldn't "pikey" cover lifestyle choice? As rabidbee says earlier in the thread thats not really about a race. Gypsy certainly is though.

Actually, I said I don't think it's racist in origin, as I think pikey has similar origins to "piker", and meant tramp or vagrant. However, looking at the OED, there's no doubt that it is used to mean a gypsie, and that that has quite long associations: a dictionary published in 1847 defines "Piky" simply as "a gypsey". The OED definition for pikey is:

A vagrant, a tramp; a traveller, a gypsy; (hence more generally) a lower-class person, regarded as coarse or disreputable. Also attrib. or as adj.: designating, relating to, or characteristic of such people; squalid, disreputable, vulgar.

[Ian Royal]

good question. I think people are probably just being ignorant. Which is still a problem. Wouldn't "pikey" cover lifestyle choice? As rabidbee says earlier in the thread thats not really about a race. Gypsy certainly is though.

Actually, I said I don't think it's racist in origin, as I think pikey has similar origins to "piker", and meant tramp or vagrant. However, looking at the OED, there's no doubt that it is used to mean a gypsie, and that that has quite long associations: a dictionary published in 1847 defines "Piky" simply as "a gypsey". The OED definition for pikey is:

A vagrant, a tramp; a traveller, a gypsy; (hence more generally) a lower-class person, regarded as coarse or disreputable. Also attrib. or as adj.: designating, relating to, or characteristic of such people; squalid, disreputable, vulgar.

my apologies

[papereyes]

It's this total lack of understanding which is upsetting several people. You can't ignore some racism just because the race in question haven't had massive civil rights movements and faced centuries of high profile repression and abuse.

<Cough> Hitler! <cough>

The Jews got the high profile bit and it lasted less than a decade. I'm very much aware of that persecution.

That's only because they ran out.

[papereyes]

PS Bob, you're absolutely correct. I wasn't forgetting the homos. Have we run out of types of people persecuted by the Nazis yet? No, they went after at least the disabled and the slavs as well iirc.

People who liked Jazz, as seen in film Swingkids, starring Christian Bale and Kenneth Branagh.

[ZacNaloen]

Rabidbee why did you have to bring Godwins into this???

[Wizard]

To be honest, I thought they were chanting "Chippo" as in the Columbian? player with long hair. But that's just me.

[The_Cat]

To be honest, I thought they were chanting "Chippo" as in the Columbian? player with long hair. But that's just me.

Indeed it is.

[rabidbee]

To be honest, I thought they were chanting "Chippo" as in the Columbian? player with long hair. But that's just me.

Maybe it was Chico, and they thought he looked like one of the Marx brothers?

[Rex]

It's this total lack of understanding which is upsetting several people. You can't ignore some racism just because the race in question haven't had massive civil rights movements and faced centuries of high profile repression and abuse.

The Jews got the high profile bit and it lasted less than a decade. I'm very much aware of that persecution.

That's only because they ran out. [/quote]

I suggest reading a little further into the theory that the slaughter and mass persecution of swathes of european society lasted as little as a decade. Genocide and persecution wasn't just 'switched' off in the closing months of the war and was building steadily through recrimination, creating reforms for legalv discrimination and persecution, segregation...... Looking a little further east and with the 'resettlement' of the remnants of Jewish society after returning from concentration camps and from inside Russia. Remember that the theory of Jewish people 'returning' was not a concept grasped and the Jewish spoils were never returned. Out of 4.5 million Polish Jews as little as 200,000 remained at the wars end.

And naturally it wasn't just the Jewish race that was persecuted. The majority - yes.

The connotations and associations are built out of ignorance.

[Royal Lady]

I wish I hadn't bothered to reply to this thread in the first place Zac and Rabidbee - how many times have you complained to the stewards or police or whatever when our fans have shouted "gypo" or "where's your caravan" to the likes of Campo and Berbatov. All I was trying to say was that the original poster who appeared so upset by it should look around him at his fellow RFC supporters - I have never seen him state on here that calling Campo a "gypo" was awful. It's pretty hypocritical imo if you come on here slagging off BCFC fans for daring to try to wind up Hunty (which didn't even work in their favour!) yet no-one has ever complained on here about our own fans doing the same to the opposition.

[ZacNaloen]

I wish I hadn't bothered to reply to this thread in the first place Zac and Rabidbee - how many times have you complained to the stewards or police or whatever when our fans have shouted "gypo" or "where's your caravan" to the likes of Campo and Berbatov. All I was trying to say was that the original poster who appeared so upset by it should look around him at his fellow RFC supporters - I have never seen him state on here that calling Campo a "gypo" was awful. It's pretty hypocritical imo if you come on here slagging off BCFC fans for daring to try to wind up Hunty (which didn't even work in their favour!) yet no-one has ever complained on here about our own fans doing the same to the opposition.

Neither myself nor Rabidbee were actually slagging off the BCFC fans. If we were slagging anyone off we were slagging off racist fans in general. Oh and your ignorance.

The comment I took offense to was this one in case you've forgotten. : -

If Hunty actually was a "gypo or pikey" or whatever names he was being called, you might have a point about the racial slant

[Huntley & Palmer]

I do laugh when other teams' fans always perpetuate the myth that we bought our way into the Premiership, usually after we've just beaten them. Especially so coming from fans of a team who just last summer paid £2m+ for a League 1 striker. At least the legacy of our visit to the top flight isn't going to be 3 successive relagations and going out of business, unlike some other clubs I could mention.

However, although I hate to agree with Finerain, the original post is a load of bollocks.

I think you forget our time in Div 2 with them, when we were seen as a money club then and one of the great pretenders considering our size and history. Their fan base hasn't seen us since then, so it is their most recent memory.

[Royal Lady]

I wish I hadn't bothered to reply to this thread in the first place Zac and Rabidbee - how many times have you complained to the stewards or police or whatever when our fans have shouted "gypo" or "where's your caravan" to the likes of Campo and Berbatov. All I was trying to say was that the original poster who appeared so upset by it should look around him at his fellow RFC supporters - I have never seen him state on here that calling Campo a "gypo" was awful. It's pretty hypocritical imo if you come on here slagging off BCFC fans for daring to try to wind up Hunty (which didn't even work in their favour!) yet no-one has ever complained on here about our own fans doing the same to the opposition.

Neither myself nor Rabidbee were actually slagging off the BCFC fans. If we were slagging anyone off we were slagging off racist fans in general. Oh and your ignorance.

The comment I took offense to was this one in case you've forgotten. : -

If Hunty actually was a "gypo or pikey" or whatever names he was being called, you might have a point about the racial slant

I wasn't talking about YOU slagging the BCFC fans off and as for my comment you quoted, you are way short of the mark if you think that I am racist in any shape or form, same goes for Schards. I just don't think that getting wound up about what opposition fans call our players is worth it - that was the point I was trying to make.

[RTFC Drummer]

Embarrassing Reading FC fans at home