Hard to see any progress for the forseeable future

[Wycombe Royal]

Those with memories longer than a goldfish will recall me being castigated for backing Reading to be relegated with £50 at 10/1.

And those with even longer memories will recall me betting £500 that Reading would finish 10 points or more ahead of Watford the previous season.

Kerr.....and indeed......ching

But that still doesn't change the fact that most of your claims at the start of this topic are bollocks.

You'll have to wait until the end of the season for a verdict on that.

Noope I still don't get it. I have just re-read your original post and I still can't see any mention of "the end of the season".

However please feel free to direct me to where you wrote that and I will happily concede that your were right all along.

[LUX]

I haven't read this entire thread, but Schards is no Sir Dodger Royal. If we were third to the bottom instead of third from the top I very much doubt he would be on here saying 'I told you so'. He would be feeling terrible like the majority of us would. I am sure he is pleased as punch that we are doing well. And it is no longer hard to see any progress for the foreseeable future. It is quite easy. In the words of Royal Lady:

HTH

agreed.

mind you, I like SDR too.

[Royal With Cheese]

Dull and uninspiring - this was the part of the original post I had issues with.

It was a knee jerk reaction to a particularly poor performance. I wish Schards and RL would just admit that and move on. Arguing over syntax of the original post does either of you no credit whatsoever.

I've no idea where we'll end up at the end of the season. We're handily placed but no more.

[Hampshire Royal]

I thought I'd do Schards the courtesy of going through his original post and come up with some comments on it:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

We haven't been out of the top 6 since September. As I recall no 'Sea Change' has happened at the club, so 'Midtable at the very best' looks to be a bit off the mark.

Madejski - clearly, his heart is not in it to the extent it was previously. He would love to sell out but can't find a buyer. He will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards.

Madejski is doing what he's always done - leaving the running of the football side of the club to football people. It went badly wrong under Burns, but since then he's kept this at arms length. It is often said that funds are available if the manager wants them.

Coppell - if the spirit of the championship had survived, he would definately have been the right man for the job, but it hasn't. The chairman is not fully behind it anymore, many players have left to pursue their own self interest and many still here would like to leave. The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team. Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.

The chairman is behind the club in exactly the same way as he always has been. OK, some players left 'to follow their own self interest (good!!) but I'm not sure that there are 'many' who want to do the same - SHunt and Bikey, perhaps. The spirit of the Championship has survived and at our best (or even our average) we are playing some wondeful stuff. We are in the process of building a new team and introducing good young players so I'm not sure what is meant by 'Coppell not having the hunger for this'.

Whilst not being a member of the carpark squad, I applauded their actions as, at the time it was the right thing to do. Had we known that the spirit of the championship side was already totally dead, in hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.

The spirit of the Championship isn't 'totally dead' so this point has no relevance. If we'd let Coppell go, who would've been able to get us to the point we're at now, with all serious pundits saying that the final reckoning will be between us, Wolves and Brum?

As for Madejski, there are some on here who would happily see us drift downwards whilst improving/maintaining our balance sheet in the belief that the rest of football will meltdown around us and we will emerge as one of the last men standing. They are rather like people who build nuclear bunkers in their back garden. Much as I admire and appreciete what Madejski has done, I don't see how the club can go forward with him at the helm and would now like to see someone new who wants to move things forward.

With Madejski at the helm, we will go forward. If he sells the club, he has said many times it will only be to someone who has the best interests of the club at heart. Not sure what the nuclear bunker analogy was all about.

Can't see either leaving anytime soon so supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller and uninspiring than in recent years

I too hope that neither will be leaving any time soon. Whatever else can be said about this season so far, it has been far from dull and uninspiring.

I think we will go up again. If not this year, then very soon.

[Matt de K]

Good 63 page summary.

[BR2]

I would agree with those that say the season has not been dull.
Normally a home and away regular I have unfortunately been unfit to travel and have missed those uplifting performances against Wolves and some of the other better clubs.
Regrettably I have seen more of the poorer performances v Forest,Charlton,Ipswich,QPR and Southampton than the clearly better performances.

Is the season really only 4 months old?
In that time we have had N Hunt signed but not playing and then really producing the goods in terms of goals.
We had shambolic performances by his brother at left-back and we then sign a left-back who looks as though he has played there all his life such is the impressive way he has settled in.
We have seen Kebe take advantage of last chance saloon and bring real pace back into the side,something that we lacked last season with Oster playing.
We have seen Jekyll and Hyde performances from Rosenior.
Doyle has recaptured the form that disappeared last season.
Bikey got back in the side and for the most part has been a rock.
Midfield players have been in and out like yo-yos.
Pearce and Karacan played a few games leading posters to believe that they will be permanent fixtures for years to come and suddenly they have gone completely off the radar.
The two old Icelandics one week look as though they should retire,the next they are back to their steady selves.
Marcus still makes that exceptional save per game that reminds us how good he is for us still despite his age.

So as I see it life has not been dull with RFC but I don't see a team evolving that could hold it's own at Premiership level and we have the major concern next month over whether Doyle, Bikey and Harper will stay and the minor concern of S Hunt going which is nowhere near as important but we would be talking of an ever-present leaving which would upset the balance that we have had for most of this season.
I fear that January will produce the usual "we are happy to go with what we have got" coming from the club but if Doyle were to go I reckon so would our promotion chances as goalscorers are like gold dust and very difficult to replace unlike full-backs and wingers.
Progress?
I don't know.
The younger players haven't really come through.
The older ones are getting....older.
The transfer window approaches swiftly and Everton,Villa,'Boro and Blackburn to name but a few will be on the lookout for strikers.
As RL says we need to wait till the end of the season to see if any progress has been made because surely progress is an immediate return to The Premier League with a team that looks like surviving.

[fordman]

i am enjoying this season so far great football.

[londinium]

I thought I'd do Schards the courtesy of going through his original post and come up with some comments on it:

I think we need to get used to mid table championship football at the very best until there is a sea change at this club.

We haven't been out of the top 6 since September. As I recall no 'Sea Change' has happened at the club, so 'Midtable at the very best' looks to be a bit off the mark.

Madejski - clearly, his heart is not in it to the extent it was previously. He would love to sell out but can't find a buyer. He will keep the club sound and stable but has no intention of investing further funds or trying to push the club forwards.

Madejski is doing what he's always done - leaving the running of the football side of the club to football people. It went badly wrong under Burns, but since then he's kept this at arms length. It is often said that funds are available if the manager wants them.

Coppell - if the spirit of the championship had survived, he would definately have been the right man for the job, but it hasn't. The chairman is not fully behind it anymore, many players have left to pursue their own self interest and many still here would like to leave. The golden team has long gone and we have to move on and build a new team. Coppell doesn't, IMHO, have the hunger to do this.

The chairman is behind the club in exactly the same way as he always has been. OK, some players left 'to follow their own self interest (good!!) but I'm not sure that there are 'many' who want to do the same - SHunt and Bikey, perhaps. The spirit of the Championship has survived and at our best (or even our average) we are playing some wondeful stuff. We are in the process of building a new team and introducing good young players so I'm not sure what is meant by 'Coppell not having the hunger for this'.

Whilst not being a member of the carpark squad, I applauded their actions as, at the time it was the right thing to do. Had we known that the spirit of the championship side was already totally dead, in hindsight, we should have let Coppell go and started afresh.

The spirit of the Championship isn't 'totally dead' so this point has no relevance. If we'd let Coppell go, who would've been able to get us to the point we're at now, with all serious pundits saying that the final reckoning will be between us, Wolves and Brum?

As for Madejski, there are some on here who would happily see us drift downwards whilst improving/maintaining our balance sheet in the belief that the rest of football will meltdown around us and we will emerge as one of the last men standing. They are rather like people who build nuclear bunkers in their back garden. Much as I admire and appreciete what Madejski has done, I don't see how the club can go forward with him at the helm and would now like to see someone new who wants to move things forward.

With Madejski at the helm, we will go forward. If he sells the club, he has said many times it will only be to someone who has the best interests of the club at heart. Not sure what the nuclear bunker analogy was all about.

Can't see either leaving anytime soon so supporting Reading's going to be a whole lot duller and uninspiring than in recent years

I too hope that neither will be leaving any time soon. Whatever else can be said about this season so far, it has been far from dull and uninspiring.

I think we will go up again. If not this year, then very soon.

I would say that this is a fair summary as to what has happened in the last 4 months and highlights the fact that Shards and RL should bite the bullet and admit that Shards was wrong.

The one thing that really annoys me about the whole issue is that Shards and RL keep saying wait until 'the end of the season' to see if Shards was wrong or right, when the only time frame given in the whole of the original post was 'Until there is a sea of change'.

' Until a sea of change' implies 'with immediate effect' and not waiting until a certian period is over and done with.

[Ian Royal]

Excellent last few posts IMO.

I don't think Pearce has dropped off the radar though. He's getting valuable experience at Saints. Ivar and Doobs get ever older so next season he could conceivably be first choice alongside Bikey.

Karacan has a problem in that his area of the field has two excellent players and two other decent ones with moer experience fighting over two slots. He's shown a lot of promise, but anyone expecting him or Pearce to get in the team and be ever present fixtures from then on in our current set up was being rather naive.

I think the team has made a lot of progress on last season, but it is still not complete. A lot of confidence and form have returned, but there is still inconsistency and a fragility of mentality.

There has certainly been no sea change, and one has not been required. Coppell has clearly not lost his hunger and is building a new team. Bikey, NHunt, Kebe, Cisse, and Rosenior have all stepped up excellently to show they can cope after last season. Marek still flatters without really having a chance to prove anything and Pearce, Karacan and Henry are all on the verge of proving the youth set up is bearing fruit by being close to a first team place.

In terms of performances thats progress, in terms of club set up thats progress. In terms of league position it isn't, but then it would be rather hard for us to finish above 18th in the prem this season.

[Royal Lady]

Progress would be going straight back up and staying there for a few seasons. Progress would be realising that you can't just keep playing the same old players and hoping for the best. Progress would be bringing in the youngsters for more than just cup games that you don't care if you win or lose. Progress, actually, would be getting a good cup run and not treating it as a run out for previously injured/young players. Progress would be realising that to maintain a good position in the Premiership would mean to spend a bit more money and not rely on staying with what we've got.

We won't know any of this until under the end of the season, of course. Which is why I refer to it. The games haven't been dull and uninspiring in the main since Schards started this thread. I would, of course, also point out that I have merely tried to explain to people what Schards meant on a couple of points - I've never really given my thoughts on the subject.

[Archie's penalty]

:roll: Progress would be going straight back up and staying there for a few seasons. Progress would be realising that you can't just keep playing the same old players and hoping for the best. Progress would be bringing in the youngsters for more than just cup games that you don't care if you win or lose. Progress, actually, would be getting a good cup run and not treating it as a run out for previously injured/young players. Progress would be realising that to maintain a good position in the Premiership would mean to spend a bit more money and not rely on staying with what we've got.

We won't know any of this until under the end of the season, of course. Which is why I refer to it. The games haven't been dull and uninspiring in the main since Schards started this thread. I would, of course, also point out that I have merely tried to explain to people what Schards meant on a couple of points - I've never really given my thoughts on the subject.

Coppell out!

[Ian Royal]

:roll: Progress would be going straight back up and staying there for a few seasons. Progress would be realising that you can't just keep playing the same old players and hoping for the best. Progress would be bringing in the youngsters for more than just cup games that you don't care if you win or lose. Progress, actually, would be getting a good cup run and not treating it as a run out for previously injured/young players. Progress would be realising that to maintain a good position in the Premiership would mean to spend a bit more money and not rely on staying with what we've got.
We won't know any of this until under the end of the season, of course. Which is why I refer to it. The games haven't been dull and uninspiring in the main since Schards started this thread. I would, of course, also point out that I have merely tried to explain to people what Schards meant on a couple of points - I've never really given my thoughts on the subject.

You clearly have very different ideas about what defines progress to a lot of people, certainly me.

Bold are utterly irrelevant because we have played youngsters in more than just cup games and we can't tell anything about the clubs attitude to staying in the Prem whilst we're not in it

there is plenty that can be judged now in Schards post, but if you two want to bury your heads in the sand thats up to you.

[Royal Lady]

I'm sorry. I thought I said in that post you quoted that in the main the games haven't been dull and uninspiring since Schards started the thread. Oh. I did.

[Sun Tzu]

But you're still sticking with all the other claims made in the original post (which interestingly doesn't mention progress....)

[Ian Royal]

I'm sorry. I thought I said in that post you quoted that in the main the games haven't been dull and uninspiring since Schards started the thread. Oh. I did.

My apologies.

Missed that bit in my hurry to get to my dinner.

Although I'd say they weren't really dull and uninspiring before his comments either, but that at least is a debateable point of view.

[Victor Meldrew]

I'm sorry. I thought I said in that post you quoted that in the main the games haven't been dull and uninspiring since Schards started the thread. Oh. I did.

My apologies.

Missed that bit in my hurry to get to my dinner.

Although I'd say they weren't really dull and uninspiring before his comments either, but that at least is a debateable point of view.

Forest (one shot on target) and Ipswich were pretty dull and uninspiring.

[Ian Royal]

I'm sorry. I thought I said in that post you quoted that in the main the games haven't been dull and uninspiring since Schards started the thread. Oh. I did.

My apologies.

Missed that bit in my hurry to get to my dinner.

Although I'd say they weren't really dull and uninspiring before his comments either, but that at least is a debateable point of view.

Forest (one shot on target) and Ipswich were pretty dull and uninspiring.

Thats why I said it was debateable. I think Ipswich was a poor display, but I wouldn't say it was particularly dull, nor uninspiring. There were still positives to take away. Forest, much the same. Had we not given Lita his obligatory chance at a lower level and just played Doyle and Hunt from the start, we may well have beaten Forest without too much difficulty.

They certainly threatened our goal very little.

I realise I may be in a minority with that view though.

[Son of Len]

Agree with MattdK, good summary HR.

:roll: Progress would be going straight back up and staying there for a few seasons. Progress would be realising that you can't just keep playing the same old players and hoping for the best. Progress would be bringing in the youngsters for more than just cup games that you don't care if you win or lose. Progress, actually, would be getting a good cup run and not treating it as a run out for previously injured/young players. Progress would be realising that to maintain a good position in the Premiership would mean to spend a bit more money and not rely on staying with what we've got.
We won't know any of this until under the end of the season, of course. Which is why I refer to it. The games haven't been dull and uninspiring in the main since Schards started this thread. I would, of course, also point out that I have merely tried to explain to people what Schards meant on a couple of points - I've never really given my thoughts on the subject.

You clearly have very different ideas about what defines progress to a lot of people, certainly me.

Bold are utterly irrelevant because we have played youngsters in more than just cup games and we can't tell anything about the clubs attitude to staying in the Prem whilst we're not in it

there is plenty that can be judged now in Schards post, but if you two want to bury your heads in the sand thats up to you.

In September, who would have guessed that Cisse would be our 4th best goal scorer come December 2? That's progress. I think that developing Cisse into an English league player is an indication that Cop has the hunger to win. Other indications include:

- Keeping players at the club after relegation (Doyle/Little Stevie Hunt/Harper/Bikey)
- Taking a relatively unknown French League 2 player (Kebe) and turning him into a Prem player (hasn't happened yet, it's still a work in progress)
- Bloodying youngsters successfully (Pearce/Karacan) and having them available for the future

Obviously, turning lower-level players into upper-level players is the thing the Reading staff do that makes them stand out. It takes a year or two and sometimes the club doesn't have the time to wait for players to develop before catastrophe hits (Cisse/Kebe/Matejovsky last year) or the player is too impatient (Fae, presumably). Although this squad probably wouldn't be able to finish #8 in the Prem next year (assuming promotion), they should be good enough to stick. In the pipeline: Matejovsky, Karacan, Pearce and, in the who knows? category, Mooney.

The only problem I foresee is our talent leaving too soon (like Sidwell) - before Prem money is used to strengthen the squad with more "in the pipeline" players. If Sids had stayed one more year and Cisse took over this season, Reading would probaby have stayed in the Prem last season and in the lower mid-table of the Prem this season. But that's just conjecture.

[Royal With Cheese]

I'm sorry. I thought I said in that post you quoted that in the main the games haven't been dull and uninspiring since Schards started the thread. Oh. I did.

My apologies.

Missed that bit in my hurry to get to my dinner.

Although I'd say they weren't really dull and uninspiring before his comments either, but that at least is a debateable point of view.

Forest (one shot on target) and Ipswich were pretty dull and uninspiring.

So that's 2 out of 20 then. To expect any team to be inspiring every game for a full 90 minutes is both laughable and impossible.

[Royal Lady]

But you're still sticking with all the other claims made in the original post (which interestingly doesn't mention progress....)

Read the title of the thread.