Is Bikey on his bikey?

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by PEARCEY » 29 Dec 2008 14:13

Vision
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Vision I'm with Hoop Blah. We don't look any more likely to concede (or vulnerable to the counter attack) than we did with Bikey in the side. In fact I'd argue that Federici has had considerably less to do than Hahnemann did in the games leading up to Bikey's Cardiff dismissal. I'm not necessarily saying i wouldn't have him in the side but people are talking as if we are only now starting to give up chances when in my opinion there is little difference to when he was in the team. I'm merely pointing out that with a new keeper, continuity amongst the back four is probably seen as the steadier option particularly when you consider that Bikey for all his strengths is still something of a loose cannon.

For the record in the 7 games since Bikey's suspension we've conceded 4 goals and in the 7 games prior to his suspension we also conceded 4 goals so given the Federici factor I'm not convinced its a foregone conclusion we're better defensively with him.

One thing where i think he would help though is that his distribution from the back is better than the other two which may help us in terms of keeping possession . That said, he's hardly Franz Beckenbeuer.


You argue your case very well and its difficult to challenge what you say. I do think though that lessons have to be learnt. Our centre backs were desperately exposed last season. Neither of the current incumbents would cope in the Premiership next season and I'm not sure either would in the Championship a year down the line.
Bikey is by no means perfect BUT he raises his game against the better sides. Pretty much everyone accepts he has the potential to be our best CB by some distance. If thats the case its about bloody time Wally Downes worked with him to get a more consistent level of performance out of him.
It also seems to me that it doesn't take too much for Copps to drop Bikey and as Woodcote has pointed out despite the obvious defensive frailties of last season SC was very reluctant to play Bikey.
I hope he stays because to let him go for £3 millon or whatever it is we would get for him would be plain stupid.


If it was August and we'd just been promoted then i'd agree with you but my response was really to the idea that "there is no reason not to be playing him now". I'm merely of the opinion that given the current situation with Federici i can totally understand why Coppell is going with a settled and more experienced back four. If we'd been leaking chances and goals left right and centre then I could understand it , but as things stand we're no more vulnerable now than we were with Bikey in the team.

How Bikey may or may not play against better sides in the Premiership doesn't have any bearing on whether under the current circumstances he should automatically start right here and now. We're getting ahead of ourselves in my opinion, we should of course always be looking to improve but the priority is getting out of this division first. Until we do that i think any talk of what we did in the Premier League or what we need to do in the Premier League is irrelevant.


No I meant Bikey hs performed better against the stronger sides in the Championship, ie Wolves and Burnley.
Not sure one change in central defence should upset Federici at all.
We should of course be looking to get out of this division first which is why I think our best CB should be playing and hopefully satying as well.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Ian Royal » 29 Dec 2008 14:19

For me Bikey vs Duberry/Ivar comes down to these two important things.

1) Bikey has more pace
2) Bikey is more error prone.

For me those two things cancel each other out. So until the defence comes up against an attack with frightening pace, or one of Ivar and Duberry drop the ball, the shirts are theirs.

Bikey was unfortunate to get sent off, if he hadn't been he'd be in the team. He was, so now he needs to wait his chance.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Hoop Blah » 29 Dec 2008 14:20

How often has Coppell preferred Duberry over Bikey though?

How many times has he preferred Bikey over Duberry?

I think Coppell just doesn't see it as cut and dried and many posters on here do. I still think that Bikey lacks a little something upstairs to make him as good as people think he is on here.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Vision » 29 Dec 2008 14:24

PEARCEY
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PEARCEY You argue your case very well and its difficult to challenge what you say. I do think though that lessons have to be learnt. Our centre backs were desperately exposed last season. Neither of the current incumbents would cope in the Premiership next season and I'm not sure either would in the Championship a year down the line.
Bikey is by no means perfect BUT he raises his game against the better sides. Pretty much everyone accepts he has the potential to be our best CB by some distance. If thats the case its about bloody time Wally Downes worked with him to get a more consistent level of performance out of him.
It also seems to me that it doesn't take too much for Copps to drop Bikey and as Woodcote has pointed out despite the obvious defensive frailties of last season SC was very reluctant to play Bikey.
I hope he stays because to let him go for £3 millon or whatever it is we would get for him would be plain stupid.


If it was August and we'd just been promoted then i'd agree with you but my response was really to the idea that "there is no reason not to be playing him now". I'm merely of the opinion that given the current situation with Federici i can totally understand why Coppell is going with a settled and more experienced back four. If we'd been leaking chances and goals left right and centre then I could understand it , but as things stand we're no more vulnerable now than we were with Bikey in the team.

How Bikey may or may not play against better sides in the Premiership doesn't have any bearing on whether under the current circumstances he should automatically start right here and now. We're getting ahead of ourselves in my opinion, we should of course always be looking to improve but the priority is getting out of this division first. Until we do that i think any talk of what we did in the Premier League or what we need to do in the Premier League is irrelevant.


No I meant Bikey hs performed better against the stronger sides in the Championship, ie Wolves and Burnley.
Not sure one change in central defence should upset Federici at all.
We should of course be looking to get out of this division first which is why I think our best CB should be playing and hopefully satying as well.


Cardiff? Birmingham?. We conceded in both games against Burnley by the way. It shouldn't make much difference to Federici but it might and while at the moment things aren't looking any worse than they were when Bikey was in then personally i can fully understand why Coppell is happy not to mess about with it.

Its just my opinion of course and theres no way of proving otherwise but it just might be that like Marek , Bikey may be the best individual in his position yet not actually part of the best unit for the current circumstances. Its a 46 game season and over the course of it, the needs of the team can vary depending on circumstances. I just think the current situation may be one of those times.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by brendywendy » 29 Dec 2008 15:47

doobs has the shirt-simple as
injury, oxf*rd, or fatigue is the onkly reason i see coppell putting bikey back in, then the shirt will be his until the same happens
coppell knows the benefits of a settled back 4


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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Cookie » 30 Dec 2008 02:28

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/105389/PULIS-GETS-ON-HIS-BIKEY.html

PULIS GETS ON HIS BIKEY
20/12/2008

TONY PULIS plans to add to Stoke’s African army with a £2.5million raid for Reading defender Andre Bikey.
The 23-year-old Cameroon international has been one of Reading’s best players so far this season.
But he has made no secret of his desire to make a swift return to the Premier League.
Bikey, a £1.3m buy from Lokomotiv Moscow in the summer of 2007, said: “Playing in the Championship has never been my ambition. I want to play at the top level.”

THEIR FANS AREN'T TOO HAPPY. :)

Are we Readings secret fund or what? Kitson, Sonko, thats 8 mill there for two crap signings to be honest they have not done what we wanted them to do i.e score goals for Kitson and NOT protect our goal hey Sonko??

By Fantana. Posted december 21 2008 at 9:51 PM.


Pleas god no

By Potter. Posted december 21 2008 at 4:38 PM.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Rex » 30 Dec 2008 02:44

Apparently we are a feeder club.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Royal Rother » 30 Dec 2008 09:30

Very small factors can mean the difference between success and failure in sport. Surely having more pace at the back enables us to be just a little more attacking which significantly increases the chances of scoring? It is my recollection that Bikey is quite often left in virtual 1 on 1 situations, whereas it rarely happens with either Duberry or Ingimarsson, which obviously means we are in a more attacking formation.

Someone pointed out that we have conceded the same number of goals in the last 7 games without Bikey as we did in the last 7 with him. How many did we score in those games?

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Vision » 30 Dec 2008 09:43

Royal Rother Very small factors can mean the difference between success and failure in sport. Surely having more pace at the back enables us to be just a little more attacking which significantly increases the chances of scoring? It is my recollection that Bikey is quite often left in virtual 1 on 1 situations, whereas it rarely happens with either Duberry or Ingimarsson, which obviously means we are in a more attacking formation.

Someone pointed out that we have conceded the same number of goals in the last 7 games without Bikey as we did in the last 7 with him. How many did we score in those games?


13 before and 12 after.

Another explanation as to why you rarely see Duberry & Ingimarsson left in virtual 1 on 1's could be that they defend as a partnership and have better positional sense than Bikey.


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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by RoyalBlue » 30 Dec 2008 12:45

Hopefully SC's statement to the EP about not letting any players go during the window puts an end to concerns about Bikey going.

However, a bit naughty of Tony Pulis if he is using the media to try to unsettle the big man.

Having said that, did Bikey look like he enjoyed the relegation experience last season? Unless he did, why would he want to go to Stoke?!!

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Muskrat » 30 Dec 2008 13:27

Bit naughty but just what you'd expect from him.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Woodcote Royal » 30 Dec 2008 15:27

Vision
Royal Rother Very small factors can mean the difference between success and failure in sport. Surely having more pace at the back enables us to be just a little more attacking which significantly increases the chances of scoring? It is my recollection that Bikey is quite often left in virtual 1 on 1 situations, whereas it rarely happens with either Duberry or Ingimarsson, which obviously means we are in a more attacking formation.

Someone pointed out that we have conceded the same number of goals in the last 7 games without Bikey as we did in the last 7 with him. How many did we score in those games?


13 before and 12 after.

Another explanation as to why you rarely see Duberry & Ingimarsson left in virtual 1 on 1's could be that they defend as a partnership and have better positional sense than Bikey.


And look how well that worked against Brum when Phillips scored.

Imgimarrson got megged and Duburry was left for dead by a 34 year old.

Spot on by the way, RR.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Ian Royal » 30 Dec 2008 15:29

Duberry wasn't left for dead, he was caught in two minds as to whether to go to Phillips or cover the run of the other player in case of the pass.

In the end he did neither, but even if he'd have gone straight to Phillips we were still in the shite and they may have scored anyway.


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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Woodcote Royal » 30 Dec 2008 15:36

It was an excellant finish but that was a perfect example of how vulnerable we can be with no pace at the back and it's been a feature of the last 3 games.

Had Bikey been one of the central defenders when Cisse lost possession we would not have been left so exposed.

I have no serious problem with either Duberry or Ingimarsson as long as they don't play together.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Cookie » 30 Dec 2008 16:02

Woodcote Royal Had Bikey been one of the central defenders when Cisse lost possession we would not have been left so exposed.


Unfortunately we'll never know. But I agree the Royals are a more exciting team with him in the lineup.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Vision » 31 Dec 2008 09:52

Woodcote Royal
Vision
Royal Rother Very small factors can mean the difference between success and failure in sport. Surely having more pace at the back enables us to be just a little more attacking which significantly increases the chances of scoring? It is my recollection that Bikey is quite often left in virtual 1 on 1 situations, whereas it rarely happens with either Duberry or Ingimarsson, which obviously means we are in a more attacking formation.

Someone pointed out that we have conceded the same number of goals in the last 7 games without Bikey as we did in the last 7 with him. How many did we score in those games?


13 before and 12 after.

Another explanation as to why you rarely see Duberry & Ingimarsson left in virtual 1 on 1's could be that they defend as a partnership and have better positional sense than Bikey.


And look how well that worked against Brum when Phillips scored.

Imgimarrson got megged and Duburry was left for dead by a 34 year old.

Spot on by the way, RR.


Note the use of the word "rarely".

That goal had nothing to do with lack of pace either.Ingimarsson mistimed a tackle and Duberry backed off. A mistake obviously but you talk as if Bikey has been totally faultless. Before getting himself sent off against Cardiff he was hardly perfect and frankly getting a bit of a runaround. Not knocking him of course as i think at his best he's the best we've got but its not always that simple and straightforward especially with someone as temperamental as he can be.

The stats quoted still point that there is very little difference between when Bikey plays and when he doesn't from a defensive standpoint and given that there is just the solitary goal extra scored i'm not sure theres any conclusive proof that its only because we dont attack as much with Duberry & Ingimarrsson that they have a comparative defensive record.

All I'm saying is I can understand why keeping continuity whilst bedding in a new keeper makes sense to Coppell. But then i don't see everything as black & white as you do obviously.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Terminal Boardom » 31 Dec 2008 10:13

PlasticRoyale This debate about CB's in all very fine and dandy but there is a serious lack of puns...

D+ Must. Try. Harder...


There should be no punishment where no pun is meant.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by brendywendy » 31 Dec 2008 16:16

i think 2.5 million for the best prospect weve ever had at CB IMO is a frickin piss take

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by 1871royals » 31 Dec 2008 16:20

Imo i think is should be Bikey and Doobs.

From SC point of view Doobs and Ivar are hardly conceding any goals. 3 in 6 games or something like that.

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Re: Is Bikey on his bikey?

by Hoop Blah » 31 Dec 2008 16:23

brendywendy i think 2.5 million for the best prospect weve ever had at CB IMO is a frickin piss take


Best ever prospect? Personally I don't think he's as good as Sonko pre-injury.

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