Radio 4 on football finances

[Dirk Gently]

Good article. Sadly, because the PL is insulated by the TV money and the proportion or income through the gates for them is relatively small, the credit crunch is most likely to hit the "have-nots" in Tiers 2-5 hardest of all.

[Tails]

Good article. Sadly, because the PL is insulated by the TV money and the proportion or income through the gates for them is relatively small, the credit crunch is most likely to hit the "have-nots" in Tiers 2-5 hardest of all.

Much like the normal 'working class folk' will get hit harder than your average multi-millionaire. Karma, believe in it!

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

The FA or the FL really should bring in some rule or accreditation to help the football club prove that they are very well run or some such thing.

I'd make it a requirement that the stadiums of all clubs are co-owned by the football league/FA. That way no unscrupulous owner would be able to sell the ground for a profit.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

Good article. Sadly, because the PL is insulated by the TV money and the proportion or income through the gates for them is relatively small, the credit crunch is most likely to hit the "have-nots" in Tiers 2-5 hardest of all.

Most telling will be next year, when we see how many season tickets are renewed, and also if people are cancelling sky sports as a luxury. If subscriptions drop, SKY could be faced with a ITV Digital situation, where they are losing money.

[PlasticRoyale]

I didn't renew SKY this year following Ronaldo claims of being a slave. I don't want to contribute anything towards him.

Also finally got sick of footballers following our inablilty to qualify for the Euros

[frimmers]

apart from the finance issue,it is also pertinent to pay heed to the "sky "hyperbole"...."ronaldo"..walks on water!! not this season does the one trick pony.

[Rex]

Football is now an industry. The amount of money pumped into clubs by Sky has supported the huge spiral of inflated players wages, demand for instant satisfaction from the board of directors of many clubs, the spiralling cycle of instant success on the pitch. The dissatisfaction of supporters who cannot afford the experience, falling attendance, increasing armchair attendance.

A plateau will be reached where lifes luxuries will impact on subscriptions to sky, reduce Sky's monopoly and knock onto football clubs.
The debt management of clubs has become fiendish at the higher level which again feeds the instant need for success of the clubs who rely on additional income to sustain outlays.

This necessitates tours of the Asian market place for those clubs tapping into the vast merchandise market.

The outcome - players needing to renegotiate a lower wage income to remain sustainable within a clubs structure. Players and agents need to start taking a close look at their powers of negotiation before pricing themselves out of the market.

[rabidbee]

The FA or the FL really should bring in some rule or accreditation to help the football club prove that they are very well run or some such thing.

I'd make it a requirement that the stadiums of all clubs are co-owned by the football league/FA. That way no unscrupulous owner would be able to sell the ground for a profit.

That would prevent a lot of clubs from selling their ground in order to finance a move to a new stadium, though.

[Rev Algenon Stickleback H]

The FA or the FL really should bring in some rule or accreditation to help the football club prove that they are very well run or some such thing.

I'd make it a requirement that the stadiums of all clubs are co-owned by the football league/FA. That way no unscrupulous owner would be able to sell the ground for a profit.

That would prevent a lot of clubs from selling their ground in order to finance a move to a new stadium, though.

It wouldn't, as the FA/League would agree to the sale in that case. They just wouldn't agree when the chairman tries to sell the stadium to a holding company for £1 so he can sell it to Tesco without the club getting a penny.

[Dirk Gently]

A case in point : http://www.gvagrimley.co.uk/x10082.xml

[It's the round thing]

Football is now an industry. The amount of money pumped into clubs by Sky has supported the huge spiral of inflated players wages, demand for instant satisfaction from the board of directors of many clubs, the spiralling cycle of instant success on the pitch. The dissatisfaction of supporters who cannot afford the experience, falling attendance, increasing armchair attendance.

A plateau will be reached where lifes luxuries will impact on subscriptions to sky, reduce Sky's monopoly and knock onto football clubs.
The debt management of clubs has become fiendish at the higher level which again feeds the instant need for success of the clubs who rely on additional income to sustain outlays.

This necessitates tours of the Asian market place for those clubs tapping into the vast merchandise market.

The outcome - players needing to renegotiate a lower wage income to remain sustainable within a clubs structure. Players and agents need to start taking a close look at their powers of negotiation before pricing themselves out of the market.

Unlikely to happen. There is an environmental concept known as the tragedy of the commons - it dates back centuries to where commons were over-grazed as every individual animal owner had an incentive to feed one more animal - even though the overall effect was to permanently damage the common pasture grounds - thus ruining the resource for everyone. The same is happening here. While all players have an interest in reducing their salaries and keeping the league functional, on their own each player will push for an increase (or at least level terms). The system is set up for failure. The solution is a new system - likely with salary caps or total wage bill constraints.

[Mr Angry]

Salary caps would be illegal under EU law (constraint of trade); only paying salaries a set percentage of revenue will, of course, benefit the existing status quo, whilst having an overall salary figure (probably the fairest solution) would need to be heavily policed to avoid off-shore payments or payments to third parties then being funnelled back to the player or the player's family. (I wonder how many WAG's would get £50k per week secretarial jobs??)

There is no chance of the next TV deal bringing in the same money as the current deal, so clubs WILL have to cut their cloth accordingly; I suspect that one or more clubs may go to the wlll in the next 3-5 years - and not just an Aldershot/Accrington, but a Portsmouth/West Ham. When you hear of clubs who have a business plan that ASSUMES a top 10 finish and the 5th round of the FA Cup every season (Blackburn alledgedly), a bad season and they are in serious financial trouble.

The solution?

Well, I think that a European Super-League, leading eventually to a World Super-League hoovering up most of the available TV money (and the real reason so many foreign investors want to move into Premier League ownership) is almost inevitable. This will see our big 4 clubs leave the Prem, and with no relegation/promotion. The remains of the Premier League will reduce to 18 or even 16 teams (as EUFA have been demanding for Years) with a Prem 2 and 3, and there will be regional Divisions to incorporate Leagues 1 & 2 and the Conference (where is the financial sense in Torquay playing Barrow??).

I can foresee a time in the future when we will look back to the late 1990's and the first decade of the 21st Century as the "golden" age of domestic football, because from here on in financial reality will be kicking in.

[Victor Meldrew]

A few years ago I remember the doom and gloom predictions that players from clubs outside of the two top divisions would have to go part-time for the current league structure to be maintained.
The strange thing is that the opposite has happened and even most of the clubs in the 5th division (The Conference)are fully professional.
With clubs at the very top level I think that with their worldwide marketing they will still bring in large revenues from shirt sales which when combined with TV revenue and home attendance income gives them a chance of survival especially with Sky TV selling games abroad to areas where the demand for shirts continues to grow.
As with council estates and the poorer areas of this country the poor abroad will still find the money to buy the shirts and pay for TV now that they are hooked so the TV people will still draw in money even in recessionary times.

So o.k for the top 4 but they still have to play somebody else and whereas I always thought there would eventually be a European Super League it is a long-time coming therefore to have some kind of competition the Boltons and Blackburns have to exist to provide some opposition for the big boys.
These lesser clubs do get a decent pay-out from Sky and I can see that (despite the greed of the big 4)they will continue to get possibly even higher amounts from Sky as a means of keeping them afloat.They just don't get the gate and shirt revenues so I think they will get a greater portion of the TV loot.

Looking further down we have clubs like us,Wolves and so on who are trying to break into the big league.
Unfortunately we also don't have the gate revenues nor shirt sales and probably never will so we will rely on TV money and try to get the balance between selling our better players to produce revenue and still survive at the top level as do the Boltons and Blackburns.
But what about further down?
Their problems generally are like ours,i.e. never able to generate great income and if gates fall further and they receive even less of any TV money they surely will have to pay players less and less and go part-time if they want to stay as football league clubs.
They also may have to consider more geographical merges if local area league clubs are to be maintained-our history of a league club being within 20 miles or so of where people live may have to change.

The trouble is the intransigence of the football fan-just because there has always been a Wednesday and United doesn't mean that they are both viable in the 21st century and rather than see teams struggle on and off the pitch more joint ventures may evolve and the younger supporters may be less steeped in the tribalism.
Professional football needs to change but the NIMBY approach may mean that more and more clubs will go to the wall at the lower levels however I do think at Premiership level the TV money may reduce next time but the clubs can already start reducing salaries now (e.g Michael Owen) and get players to buy-in to the view that their careers might be shortened unless they take less out.
Mind you players do often exist on another planet so we shouldn't hold our breath in anticipation of them seeing the bigger picture.

[Royal Rother]

Mods....

Can I suggest that this discussion is merged with the other interesting thread on the same subject? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78889&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=120

It'll be good to see how the situation and press reporting evolve over the course of a year or so ideal to keep it all in one place perhaps.

[Dirk Gently]

I hear from a journo this morning that there's a strong rumour that Barclays won't be able to afford to renew their £70M sponsorship of the PL when it runs out next year.

Not that it will make a great impact as it's relatively small compared with the total PL income, but it'll be an embarrassing blow for them.

[Wycombe Royal]

Apparently rumours are spreading that Southampton will enter administration on the 1st February.

[Dirk Gently]

Apparently rumours are spreading that Southampton will enter administration on the 1st February.

Any significance in that date?

[Wycombe Royal]

Apparently rumours are spreading that Southampton will enter administration on the 1st February.

Any significance in that date?

I was wondering the same when I heard it.

[Silver Fox]

Transfer window? Maybe they'll try to get some cash in (and out allegedly) before the administrators come in and try to keep it for people who are owed?

[Skyline]

Window closes on 2nd Feb this year (it's been extended because the 31st is a Saturday), so 1st Feb would still be in the window.