None of which makes a blind bit of difference to Long's ability to control a ball or hold off a defender.
None of it makes a blind bit of difference to Lita's inability to challenge for the ball without trying to win a freekick and losing posession on far too frequent an occassion.
...I don't know what you're trying to prove Snowball, but all the stats in the world won't change what happens on the pitch!
Shane Long
-
1871royals
- Member
- Posts: 278
- Joined: 11 Jun 2004 08:57
Long appears to have a better attitude than Lita but Lita scored more goals.
Its easier to look good when you dont play many games.
For example Darius Hender looked prolific based on his scoring record. But he wasn't good enough to play regularly.
I like Long coz hes gives his all but there must be a reason that in 4 years SC has never deemed him good enough to start regularly.
Its easier to look good when you dont play many games.
For example Darius Hender looked prolific based on his scoring record. But he wasn't good enough to play regularly.
I like Long coz hes gives his all but there must be a reason that in 4 years SC has never deemed him good enough to start regularly.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that there is only one way to judge a player,
or a team for that matter, and that is with your own eyes not a load of statistics.
Disagree. What about "total points in a season"? That's a statistic.
What about the league's top-scorer? That's a statistic.
What peees me off about the anti-Shane stuff on this list and the blinkers over Lita, is that Lita has scored
19 goals for Reading is 76 appearances (1 in 4). That's hardly stunning figures for a striker
Basically, what I am getting at is that an established player (Lita)
who had already made a name for himself at Bristol City, joins
the side who carried everyone before them gets 11 goals in 22+4
But that seems to blind people to his overall, long-term performance (which looks like it's steadily downhill)
Year 1 - 11 goals Championship
Year 2 - 07 goals Premiership
Year 3 - 01 goals (and that was the last minute of the last game against the worst-ever Premiership side)
Year 4 - 01 goals (a last minute goal in a 4-0 win against a bad side)
Even if you factor in his loans to Charlton and Norwich
Year 1 - 11 goals Championship
Year 2 - 07 goals Premiership
Year 3 - 04 goals (in 18+11 appearances) (about 1 goal per 5 games)
Year 4 - 08 goals (in 19+02 appearances) (about 1 goal per 2.5 games)
In FOUR SEASONS he has scored 26 goals in 89 appearances (1 in 3.42 games)
In the same time period WITHOUT the benefits of a decent run with Reading or a Loan Club Shane has scored 1 goal in every 2.36 games)
THAT is a real and absolute statistic. Any striker who can average 1 in 2 is sought after.
Shane would easily manage that if he played every week if he can manage 2.36 on scraps.
Shane is 22 today, so he started playing first team football at age 18 for Reading, has never had a significant run in the side
has scored VITAL goals for the club, made important goals too, and as I keep saying, in terms of minutes played he has
out-scored Lita over four seasons, and separately in the Premiership, despite being 25 months younger than Lita.
That to me says he's going to be a big player. Knowing our luck, it'll be for some other club
or a team for that matter, and that is with your own eyes not a load of statistics.
Disagree. What about "total points in a season"? That's a statistic.
What about the league's top-scorer? That's a statistic.
What peees me off about the anti-Shane stuff on this list and the blinkers over Lita, is that Lita has scored
19 goals for Reading is 76 appearances (1 in 4). That's hardly stunning figures for a striker
Basically, what I am getting at is that an established player (Lita)
who had already made a name for himself at Bristol City, joins
the side who carried everyone before them gets 11 goals in 22+4
But that seems to blind people to his overall, long-term performance (which looks like it's steadily downhill)
Year 1 - 11 goals Championship
Year 2 - 07 goals Premiership
Year 3 - 01 goals (and that was the last minute of the last game against the worst-ever Premiership side)
Year 4 - 01 goals (a last minute goal in a 4-0 win against a bad side)
Even if you factor in his loans to Charlton and Norwich
Year 1 - 11 goals Championship
Year 2 - 07 goals Premiership
Year 3 - 04 goals (in 18+11 appearances) (about 1 goal per 5 games)
Year 4 - 08 goals (in 19+02 appearances) (about 1 goal per 2.5 games)
In FOUR SEASONS he has scored 26 goals in 89 appearances (1 in 3.42 games)
In the same time period WITHOUT the benefits of a decent run with Reading or a Loan Club Shane has scored 1 goal in every 2.36 games)
THAT is a real and absolute statistic. Any striker who can average 1 in 2 is sought after.
Shane would easily manage that if he played every week if he can manage 2.36 on scraps.
Shane is 22 today, so he started playing first team football at age 18 for Reading, has never had a significant run in the side
has scored VITAL goals for the club, made important goals too, and as I keep saying, in terms of minutes played he has
out-scored Lita over four seasons, and separately in the Premiership, despite being 25 months younger than Lita.
That to me says he's going to be a big player. Knowing our luck, it'll be for some other club
Snowball Basically, what I'm getting at is that there is only one way to judge a player,
or a team for that matter, and that is with your own eyes not a load of statistics.
Disagree. What about "total points in a season"? That's a statistic.
What about the league's top-scorer? That's a statistic.
Neither of those actually tell you who's the better team or player though, it just shows who'd amassed more points or scored more goals over the season (the table never lies is a cliche that has some weight behind it admittedly, but it's still only a measure of performance not ability).
None of which makes a blind bit of difference to Long's ability to control a ball or hold off a defender.
This is plain daft. Some players are LUMPS but they keep putting it in the net.
Shane Long's scoring rate is respectable. For a bit-part sub it's brilliant.
He should get more time either with Reading or on loan. Mark my words he'll have a 30-goal season
None of it makes a blind bit of difference to Lita's inability to challenge for the ball without trying to win a freekick and losing posession on far too frequent an occassion.
Well I think Lita's head is gone. When you judge his overall record he's been going downhill for years.
YES he had a brief flurry at Norwich (but not STUNNING. 7 in 16 made better by a hat-trick otherwise 4 in 15)
...I don't know what you're trying to prove Snowball, but all the stats in the world won't change what happens on the pitch!
I agree. Let's talk "on the pitch" then.
How many times this season has Leroy saved Reading?
NONE.
How many times did he save Reading in the 2007-08 season?
NONE.
How many points has Shane grabbed for us this season? At least four.
He earned us more than that in the Premiership.
To me Long is a hard-working professional, young, who has the power and speed to be a very, very good player.
Lita is a talented but overblown playboy on his way down down down unless some manager can smack some sense into him.
Last point. Those who defend him are thinking 3-4 years in the past. 2 pointless goals in two seasons, and ten for other clubs?
This is plain daft. Some players are LUMPS but they keep putting it in the net.
Shane Long's scoring rate is respectable. For a bit-part sub it's brilliant.
He should get more time either with Reading or on loan. Mark my words he'll have a 30-goal season
None of it makes a blind bit of difference to Lita's inability to challenge for the ball without trying to win a freekick and losing posession on far too frequent an occassion.
Well I think Lita's head is gone. When you judge his overall record he's been going downhill for years.
YES he had a brief flurry at Norwich (but not STUNNING. 7 in 16 made better by a hat-trick otherwise 4 in 15)
...I don't know what you're trying to prove Snowball, but all the stats in the world won't change what happens on the pitch!
I agree. Let's talk "on the pitch" then.
How many times this season has Leroy saved Reading?
NONE.
How many times did he save Reading in the 2007-08 season?
NONE.
How many points has Shane grabbed for us this season? At least four.
He earned us more than that in the Premiership.
To me Long is a hard-working professional, young, who has the power and speed to be a very, very good player.
Lita is a talented but overblown playboy on his way down down down unless some manager can smack some sense into him.
Last point. Those who defend him are thinking 3-4 years in the past. 2 pointless goals in two seasons, and ten for other clubs?
Neither of those actually tell you who's the better team or player though, it just shows who'd amassed more
points or scored more goals over the season (the table never lies is a cliche that has some weight behind it
admittedly, but it's still only a measure of performance not ability
As far as I am concerned, the side that gets the most points
is the "best" that year. The best at meeting the task (getting points)
My other side is Arsenal, sometimes beautiful to watch. When Hull
went to the Emirates and won 2-1, that was a statistic. Sheer guts and
hard work overcame 11 guys playing TOO pretty football.
Would you rather we be the best side in the Championship and lose 1-0
in the play-off final, or be "workmanlike" and champions?
For me it's a no-brainer. The one with the most points is the best side.
I might accept an argument if it 90 Pts versus 89, but not 95 v 85.
But the Readings of this world are never going to match Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool for pure ability.
We do it on effort, guts, team-play.
That's why I like the Longs, Doyles, Hunts and don't like tarts who occasionally score clever goals.
points or scored more goals over the season (the table never lies is a cliche that has some weight behind it
admittedly, but it's still only a measure of performance not ability
As far as I am concerned, the side that gets the most points
is the "best" that year. The best at meeting the task (getting points)
My other side is Arsenal, sometimes beautiful to watch. When Hull
went to the Emirates and won 2-1, that was a statistic. Sheer guts and
hard work overcame 11 guys playing TOO pretty football.
Would you rather we be the best side in the Championship and lose 1-0
in the play-off final, or be "workmanlike" and champions?
For me it's a no-brainer. The one with the most points is the best side.
I might accept an argument if it 90 Pts versus 89, but not 95 v 85.
But the Readings of this world are never going to match Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool for pure ability.
We do it on effort, guts, team-play.
That's why I like the Longs, Doyles, Hunts and don't like tarts who occasionally score clever goals.
Thaumagurist* However much you blather on, you still can't deny that Lita has scored more for the Reading first team than Long has.
Trevor Senior has scored more than either of them, but I don't want him starting for us at the moment!
Snowball, your argument has proven some things- Long is a better goalscorer than Lita, and an effective impact sub- but it doesn't say much about his ability. I could stroll onto a pitch and get hit by 30 shots which deflect in a season in the PL, it wouldn't make me a world class striker.
FWIW I agree with you, over the past two seasons Lita has done less than Long for us even proportionately, and on that basis should be fourth choice. Lita when off form (i.e. the past two seasons) is worse than Long when off form. Lita when on form is better than Long when on form, but that matters little when he can't get on form!
-
Royal Lady
-
Hob Nob Subscriber
- Posts: 13760
- Joined: 14 Apr 2004 10:17
- Location: Don't mess with "my sort". Cheers then.
I missed off a "we" before the were - I know exactly what you're saying - just cos he was in a team that was winning doesn't make him a great player!Snowball oh and LOL that when he was subbed after 68 mins against Palace were 3-2 up!!!! He MUST be good then.
Don't be so DUMB
He played for 68 minutes, we were winning 3-2 when he came off.
The point is, he started, played and the side were doing enough to win.
-
Riskit for a biscuit
- Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: 28 Dec 2008 21:03
I think the best thing for Long would be to look for first team football elsewhere. He's not a championship player as he simply is not good enough to command a regular role in the first team.
As someone has previously stated, he demonstrates a complete lack of ability and does not possess a footballing brain. He can't anticipate well enough how plays are going to carry out, and he's neither really skillful or pacey, which are two traits that are important for strikers in the modern game.
He is nowhere near Lita in terms of ability or motivation. Yes, Leroy is an obnoxious little so and so but he contributes far more to the team, besides being a far more natural finisher. Long can't even seem to score even when he's hoofing balls towards the empty nets when the subs warm up during the break.
I have nothing against him personally, but we are rarely presented with anything other than a poor performance when I see him play unfortunately.
As someone has previously stated, he demonstrates a complete lack of ability and does not possess a footballing brain. He can't anticipate well enough how plays are going to carry out, and he's neither really skillful or pacey, which are two traits that are important for strikers in the modern game.
He is nowhere near Lita in terms of ability or motivation. Yes, Leroy is an obnoxious little so and so but he contributes far more to the team, besides being a far more natural finisher. Long can't even seem to score even when he's hoofing balls towards the empty nets when the subs warm up during the break.
I have nothing against him personally, but we are rarely presented with anything other than a poor performance when I see him play unfortunately.
-
andrew1957
- Hob Nob Regular
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: 29 Sep 2006 14:40
- Location: Reading
I agree that some on here are very harsh about Long.
I think it is true that he has not progressed much since his first season but he has seldom had a run of games and players only improve when they do.
The jury is out on whether he will ever go on to be a great player and maybe he is best suited to the supersub role that Copell uses him for - BUT he is really good at that role and I can see why SC has kept him here rather than allowing him out on loan. Sadly this may well harm his long term prospects of being a top pro but maybe SC has said to him that he is best suited to the sub role.
When he comes on as a late sub when we are winning it seems that SC has just asked him to harry the opposition - in which case he is unlikely to score. When we are chasing a game however - he has come up with a number of late goals and assists that have got us valuable points.
Does it really matter to us if he is not good enough to start games - if he successfully fulfils the sub role.
I think it is true that he has not progressed much since his first season but he has seldom had a run of games and players only improve when they do.
The jury is out on whether he will ever go on to be a great player and maybe he is best suited to the supersub role that Copell uses him for - BUT he is really good at that role and I can see why SC has kept him here rather than allowing him out on loan. Sadly this may well harm his long term prospects of being a top pro but maybe SC has said to him that he is best suited to the sub role.
When he comes on as a late sub when we are winning it seems that SC has just asked him to harry the opposition - in which case he is unlikely to score. When we are chasing a game however - he has come up with a number of late goals and assists that have got us valuable points.
Does it really matter to us if he is not good enough to start games - if he successfully fulfils the sub role.
-
Platypuss
- Hob Nob Moderator
- Posts: 8203
- Joined: 14 Apr 2004 21:46
- Location: No one cares about your creative hub, so get your fukcin' hedge cut
Gordons Cumming Trappatoni seems to disagree with many on here.
Strange that.....................
What about this guy's opinion from back in August?
"Longy has to do it now or move on."
Riskit for a biscuit I think the best thing for Long would be to look for first team football elsewhere.
He's not a championship player as he simply is not good enough to command a regular role in the first team.
I agree he's not a championship player. He's a premiership player
You merely saying "he's not good enough" don't make it so. Based on his goals/game, he's better than Lita
and if Lita was clearly out-scoring Long on goals per game you'd be screaming it from the rooftops
I really do not care what punters say about a player. 99% of punters are idiots. I used to follow Newport County and they had this "idiot" arrive from South Liverpool. He got a few games in the side, this plonker. He ran around like Stephen Hunt with his eyes closed. He scored with his shoulder, with his @rse, with his shins, with his ear, with toe-pokes, occasionally with his instep, even, allegedly, deliberately.
He scored for fun and we wondered what we'd got.
He had NO TECHNIQUE AT ALL.
But we loved him "because he was lucky"
Then the management, after he'd got about 8 in 6 or 6 in 8, DROPPED HIM TO THE RESERVES and played him for about six months in the Welsh League. The management were "idiots", "buffoons" they didn't have a CLUE. WE did, WE knew. And when this guy came back, God was he crap. All that spontaneity and "natural goal-scoring ability" was gone. THEY HAD RUINED HIM.
We were so p!ssed off.
But then, after about 7-8-9-10 games back in the senior side, he started to score again.
Then (sorry about this) OXFORD bought him (£78,000) and eventually he went to Liverpool and became the top-score in English history. JOHN ALDRIDGE.
He never looked "class" did JA. He just scored goals. Yes of course we need some ball control, and a first touch is handy, but some people just score goals
Riskit for a biscuit As someone has previously stated, he demonstrates a complete lack of ability and does not possess a
footballing brain. He can't anticipate well enough how plays are going to carry out, and he's neither really skillful or pacey,
which are two traits that are important for strikers in the modern game.
NOT pacy? What planet are you on? Exactly how did he get his 11 league goals again? Did the opposition fall over?
SC thinks he's both pacy and strong.
Riskit for a biscuit He is nowhere near Lita in terms of ability or motivation.
Yes, Leroy is an obnoxious little so and so but he contributes far more to the team, besides being a far more natural finisher.
Long can't even seem to score even when he's hoofing balls towards the empty nets when the subs warm up during the break.
And yet in 20 actual league starts (some when he was just 18) Long has scored 11 goals and 4 assists. Strange that.
Maybe the opposition sucked the ball into the net. (Remember Lita has scored just 20 in 57 starts (+21)
Where does "Lita contributes to the team" come from when the official club statistics
list him as just 7 assists in FOUR seasons? And at Swansea his selfishness cost us a draw.
That is pure opinion with barely any basis in fact.
Is it based on goals scored per minutes played?
Is it based on goals scored per starts?
Lita has score 9 league goals for Reading in 3 years!
In the same time period, on a lot less games, Long has scored 8
I count a game as sub as a fifth of a game
............ Leroy Lita............ Shane Long.....
2005-2006 22 (04) 11 goals .... 01 (10) 03 goals .... 1 in 02.1 Lita versus 1 in 1.0 Long
2006-2007 22 (11) 07 goals .... 09 (12) 02 goals .... 1 in 03.5 Lita versus 1 in 5.7 Long
2007-2008 10 (04) 01 goals .... 07 (22) 03 goals .... 1 in 10.8 Lita versus 1 in 3.8 Long
2008-2009 03 (02) 01 goals .... 03 (20) 03 goals .... 1 in 03.8 Lita versus 1 in 2.3 Long
Lita overall 3.06
Long overall 2.98
But Long is 2 years and a month younger than Lita.. That first season he was 18 years old!
Why blather on about Lita's "class" or "skill" if the guy is clearly not producing the good?
-
Platypuss
- Hob Nob Moderator
- Posts: 8203
- Joined: 14 Apr 2004 21:46
- Location: No one cares about your creative hub, so get your fukcin' hedge cut
SnowballRiskit for a biscuit I think the best thing for Long would be to look for first team football elsewhere.
He's not a championship player as he simply is not good enough to command a regular role in the first team.
I agree he's not a championship player. He's a premiership player
"Longy has to do it now or move on.""
-
hughsies no.1
- Member
- Posts: 512
- Joined: 30 Sep 2004 10:50
a thread trying to defend shane longs performances...laughable
tell me what you have for breakfast? shane long has been given numerous chances by coppell and has not taken any. the only reason he is still with us and not out on loan is because he has a good attitude. he has blown more chances than lita. this is his 4th season with us now.his best performance for us was probably when he came on against derby in our promotion season. ive been giving him the benifit of the doubt for a while now but not anymore.
the term 'its all gone shane long' comes to mind
tell me what you have for breakfast? shane long has been given numerous chances by coppell and has not taken any. the only reason he is still with us and not out on loan is because he has a good attitude. he has blown more chances than lita. this is his 4th season with us now.his best performance for us was probably when he came on against derby in our promotion season. ive been giving him the benifit of the doubt for a while now but not anymore.
the term 'its all gone shane long' comes to mind
-
Ian Royal
- Hob Nob Legend
- Posts: 35156
- Joined: 15 Apr 2004 13:43
- Location: Playing spot the pc*nt on HNA?
winchester_royalIan Royal Statistics are not the be all and end all of football. There is much much more to it than that.
.
And yet people still wack 'em out when defending Shunt. Long has, and always will be a good impact sub who brings an extra dimension to our game. If/when we go up, we will need to replace him, but the job he is doing right now is a good one.
There is much more to SHunt than Statistics. Personally I don't rely on them to defend him.
shane long has been given numerous chances by coppell and has not taken any
19 League starts in 3 seasons is "numerous chances"?
this is his 4th season with us now
It may be "his fourth season" in your eyes...
but he debut'd in December 28 2006 so it's actually just THREE seasons plus one month, and in case you forget, he was just 18 when he started.
His first START in a league game was 17 APRIL 2006, Just 2 Years 9 months ago
In Reading's Championship-winning 2005–06 campaign, he scored three goals in 10 substitute appearances, making his first league start on 17 April 2006 in the 3-1 home victory against Stoke City.
In his first season he played 272 minutes and scored 3 league goals 1 goal every 90 minutes, a goal a game, and him just 18 years old at the start of the season, 19 for his first start
19 League starts in 3 seasons is "numerous chances"?
this is his 4th season with us now
It may be "his fourth season" in your eyes...
but he debut'd in December 28 2006 so it's actually just THREE seasons plus one month, and in case you forget, he was just 18 when he started.
His first START in a league game was 17 APRIL 2006, Just 2 Years 9 months ago
In Reading's Championship-winning 2005–06 campaign, he scored three goals in 10 substitute appearances, making his first league start on 17 April 2006 in the 3-1 home victory against Stoke City.
In his first season he played 272 minutes and scored 3 league goals 1 goal every 90 minutes, a goal a game, and him just 18 years old at the start of the season, 19 for his first start
-
Ian Royal
- Hob Nob Legend
- Posts: 35156
- Joined: 15 Apr 2004 13:43
- Location: Playing spot the pc*nt on HNA?
Snowball I think he has the potential to be a very good player indeed. AS GOOD AS DOYLE
If you look at what he manages with a lot less time on the pitch, if you look at actual facts,
genuine statistics, and then remember he has three years of improvement, to catch Kevin as he is now,
he is going to be as good as Kevin Doyle, barring serious injury.
He has power and pace, he runs forever, has a good shot and can head the ball, and he's brave as hell
He also gets more on target, percentage wise than Doyle and Lita is miles away
Last season playing 20% of the time his league record was
Premier League
15 Shots
10 On Target
04 Off Target
01 Hit the Woodwork
03 Goals
That is in just 675 minutes play, often just 5-10 minutes at the rag-end of a game.
Multiply those totals by 5 for 100% play and you get
Premier League
75 Shots
50 On Target
20 Off Target
05 Hit the Woodwork
15 goals
Doyle played almost a full season, say 90%
Premier League
67 Shots
26 On Target
41 Off Target
00 Hit Woodwork
06 Goals
Round that up to 100% (add 10% to his shots etc)
75 Shots
30 On Target
45 Off target
00 Hit the Woodwork
07 Goals
So like for like Long and Doyle would have had the same number of shots
but Long would have been far more accurate and scored twice as many goals
You seriously need to get over your statistics. Doyle has already acheived more than Long ever will. Regardless of whatever statistics you want to dredge up to manipulate and support your view, he will NEVER be good enough to start regularly for a decent Reading side (mid tier 2 or higher).
He could have been. But he didn't get the first team games he needed. Had he gone on loan to league 1 and played a significant number of games as a starter, even as late as last year, then he had a chance to go places. Now?
No chance.
-
Basingstoke Royal
- Member
- Posts: 659
- Joined: 10 Dec 2004 13:34
- Location: Basingstoke
So from what you said, he scored how many goals????
That is his job. Doyle, Hunt, Lita are all better at scoring goals.
That is his job. Doyle, Hunt, Lita are all better at scoring goals.
Basingstoke Royal Lita are all better at scoring goals.
Lita was better at scoring goals two years ago.
He isn't now.
-
cmonurz
- Hob Nob Super-Addict
- Posts: 12384
- Joined: 21 Apr 2004 22:50
- Location: Nob nob nob nob nob nob
God, I thought I loved stats. 
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Jinx, MartinRdg, Snowflake Royal, windermereROYAL and 250 guests
It is currently 27 Nov 2024 09:42